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Draft Update: Isiahs Smarter Than You Are?


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MS
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Everyone has players on their own board that they would like to be selected, and a lot of time and energy has been put into Eddy Curry and justifying his immense talents and how he was worth the lottery picks and the knicks won the deal. But progress is progress so lets take a quick look inside the draft prospects most fans would have wanted if we had our lottery pick and could do it again, or how we would have done it? TYRUS THOMAS ORLANDO -- The breathtaking athleticism was evident Monday when Chicago Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas met Shawne Williams a foot above the rim and stuffed the dunk attempt back to the floor. With Thomas, already one of the NBA's most dynamic shot-blockers, the unexpected has almost become the expected. Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas is driven to improve his jump shot. But it was a more mundane effort -- Thomas actually knocking down a couple of 15-foot jump shots --that had defenders shaking their heads in Monday's Pepsi Pro Summer League in Orlando. Thomas' improved outside shot hasn't come by accident. He said he's worked seven days a week so far this offseason, often staying in the gym until he makes 700 jump shots a day. "I just want to use this week to get a lot better and put to use all the work that I've been putting in," said Thomas, the fourth overall pick of the 2006 NBA draft. "Everything that I've been working on, from my midrange game to my back-to-the-basket game, I'm trying to make them better this summer." Indiana defeated Chicago 93-89 in the summer league opener Monday, but Thomas was clearly the best player on the floor. He made 6-of-13 shots and got to the free-throw line 10 times for 17 points overall. He also added seven rebounds, five blocked shots and two steals in one of the most complete performances of the day. And Thomas did it even though he had to retreat to the training room in the third period after getting banged on the hip during -- what else? -- a dazzling blocked shot. Somewhat undersized as a 6-foot-9, 215-pound power forward, Thomas knows that if he's going to become more of a scoring threat for the Bulls, he has to be able to hit the midrange shot. A threat to drive to the hoop at any time, Thomas made foes pay Monday when they backed off him and basically dared him to shoot. Knowing when to take that shot comes easier now that he's been in the league a year and played 72 games as a rookie, Thomas said. But that certainly wasn't the case this time last year. "It was more just getting the feel of the game and knowing how to take my game to another level," said Thomas, referring to the transition to the NBA. "I know I still have a lot of stuff to work on, and I'm just keep trying to keep getting better." LaMarcus Aldridge Fact is, even Oden would insist that we vote for Aldridge . . . if he were still here. It was Oden, after all, who unexpectedly pinned a "beast" tag on the slender Texas ex over the weekend. Not the sort of tag Aldridge is used to. Yet it's clear that Oden's new frontcourt partner -- who didn't look nearly this confident a year ago, when Aldridge was Portland's top-two pick in Vegas -- has been the Blazers' best player. I was pretty worried for Portland when I saw Aldridge at the '06 Vegas Summer League, but he has returned with a considerable combination of self-belief and constant energy while averaging 21.0 points and 11.0 rebounds through three games. Plus he never gives the impression that he's above summer-league duty, which easily could have been the case after Aldridge rebounded from the shoulder trouble that plagued him here last July to make the All-Rookie Team. Honorable mention: Brandon Roy. Word is that Roy badly wanted to play for the Blazers' summer squad again, even after his near-unanimous Rookie of the Year season, but his bosses apparently urged Roy to rest as a health precaution. How antsy is he? During Oden's second game, I saw Roy hiding a ball and dribbling it below his knees while watching from the Blazers' bench. Stacking up last years prospects: We love Balkman he is a player, and exactly what the knicks needed but the two below would have been great selections for the long term as we needed a pg and by all accounts balkman like chandler was a second round selection. Two way PG: Kyle Lowry 23pts 12-13ft Marcus Williams 28pts 6rbs 5ass So here we are one year later with 33 wins fighting for the 8th playoff spot, Curry is making 10 million and will likely opt out and be paid 15 by isiah, and randolf currys mirror on defense was brought in to make the push for the final slot which just got harder with the additions of Mo Williams and Rashard Lewis to the Florida teams, and the addition of Jason Richardson to Bobcats. And we are still searching for a pg that can make the entry pass. Everyone is so quick to point out Curry talents but in the end we are where we are. The draft is a crap shot there is no question, but GMs always pick potential over character, talent over smarts, draft big stiffs, is the drafting process really that hard?
I am happy with the Eddy Curry Trade/Balkman selection
I am happy with the Curry trade but would like one of the pgs below
Take my chances with the lottery selections
I am in the wait and see mode
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Author Thread
islesfan
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7/11/2007  12:15 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by NYK3:

Isles what gives you the right to call someone an idiot? Grow up dude

Shut it.

enough of the idiot stuff.

Not even in response to rvhoss?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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7/11/2007  12:51 PM
Posted by MS:

And playing playground basketball working on illegal moves, trying to embarrass people is not working on your game. As Jamal said last year the playgrounds "Are where you try out stuff for the upcoming season"

I think their games are very reflective of players that play without any discipline in a concept that doesn't really involve the team.

Jamals game consists of off balance shots following crossovers a few seconds into the clock or firing three's when there is no protection for long rebounds. He is a talented shooter that doesn't have a developed midrange game which is criminal sense he can get by anyone in the league.

Nate can do the same, but loves going into traffic forcing shots and tryin to make the highlight play.

Those two are extremely lazy, they have tremendous athletic skills but never get after their man on defense and their sole purpose is offensive highlight plays, which is exactly what a playground player is

I will agree with you on these points. I just didn't think it was fair to say they don't love the game. They may not respect what it takes to be a winner, but I do believe they love the game. Having a good work ethic is actually a different thing. In all sports guys that have great work ethics stand out, cuz most live on talent. Jamal and Nate aren't rare or unique in the NBA. We just happen to have a lot of guys like that, as opposed to a team like Chi that has a lot of high character guys with great work ethics. At least Isiah has been drafting more guys who seem to be ready to work hard.
TrueBlue
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7/11/2007  1:01 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by bigbeast:

How could Isiah or anyone here foresee that Tyrus Thomas/Aldrige/Roy would have been available to the Knicks right after the Curry trade was made? With LB coming here, everyone thought the Knicks would be a playoff team or at least right there. Instead, LB and the team imploded, and ended up giving away the 2nd pick.

Marcus Williams was a mistake. Isiah should have taken him and tried to buy a pick from Phoenix for Balk.

You don't have to foresee it happening, you just have to protect yourself on the chance that it could happen.


Hence the Phrase "Lottery Protected"
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
BRIGGS
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7/11/2007  1:41 PM
It wouldve been nice to put Tyrus Thomas next to Eddy Curry. Marcus Williams is spilled milk and the team canb use a Balkman type player as much as anything. I think one mistake that will become evident by next week is the play of Morris Almond.

IT has been a good late drafter---no doubt about it. Hopefully the problems I believe we will have in terms of chemistry will be overblown.
RIP Crushalot😞
MS
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7/11/2007  1:58 PM
All over that one, with Bellini off the board I thought that was the correct selection, just like williams/lowry and granger/bynum there isn't a tremendous science to it. I would have even grab Tiago Splitter after Almond and stash him overseas so we don't have to worry about giving someone away, and he has been compared to PJ Brown which is something that would have been good along with lee and curry in the frontcourt

You draft for a need and our need was at the 2 position, we didn't need another sf now we have 5, we are still without a two for the future as jones is not it.
misterearl
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7/11/2007  2:14 PM
MS - what is the problem you have with making incremental steps to improve the Knicks roster?

Is it the deals themselves, or the person making the deals?

You may want to reconsider your position and understand the history of the Knicks within the context of keeping a professional franchise relevant in the competitive entertainment smorgasbord of New York City.


As someone who has followed the Knicks franchise since 1967, I can say without any reservation that the current 17 player roster (along with a few Summer League candidates) reflects a significant departure from the strategy employed to acquire players in the past.

There is more young talent on this roster than at any moment in the history of the Knicks franchise. EVER.

and all you want to do is trash them?

c'mon

no one will agree with 100 percent of the moves of any general manager. Isiah is far from perfect, but he is aggressive in the pursuit of talent. Whether it is the courage to take a chance on a reclamation project like DerMarr Johnson or a stealth strategy to sign Randolph Morris.

whether it is the insight to take David Lee or Renaldo Balkman in the first round or the vision to take Collins or Nichols in the second, the Knicks have collected some compelling parts.

whether those parts can mesh will be illustrated in February.

No deal will ever make evreyone happy. Not one. But hey, I got over giving up Keith Van Horn and losing Lonnie Shelton. I got over missing Mark Jackson, Walt Bellamy, and Clarence Weatherspoon. I will also get over Channing Frye wearing a Blazers uni.

I may not, however, ever get over trading Clyde to the Cavaliers.




once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/11/2007  2:35 PM
Funny, I've Watched Some Hellacious Defense played on the Playground

"Those two are extremely lazy, they have tremendous athletic skills but never get after their man on defense and their sole purpose is offensive highlight plays, which is exactly what a playground player is"

MS - you may want to rethink your stereotypes. The fact that Jamal's game offends your basketball sense of decorum does not automatically make him lazy.

and another thing

you are dead wrong, defense IS played on the playground

have you ever seen anyone drive the lane on the playground without someone attempting to throw his shot back in his face?

or someone NOT get down in a defensive stance when another player is approaching the halfcourt in a one-on-one situation?



and please, what playground are you referring to where defense is NOT played?

certainly not the ones I've been fortunate to play on

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-11-2007 2:37 PM]
once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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7/11/2007  2:41 PM
Posted by MS:

All over that one, with Bellini off the board I thought that was the correct selection, just like williams/lowry and granger/bynum there isn't a tremendous science to it. I would have even grab Tiago Splitter after Almond and stash him overseas so we don't have to worry about giving someone away, and he has been compared to PJ Brown which is something that would have been good along with lee and curry in the frontcourt

You draft for a need and our need was at the 2 position, we didn't need another sf now we have 5, we are still without a two for the future as jones is not it.

Briggs, MS I think you guys are not quite seeing the big picture here. SF/SG is what Chandler and Nichols are. We most certainly addressed our needs this summer. There's no reason to believe that Almond will be a better defender than it looks like Chandler and Nichols may be. These two guys seem to have more upside and overall skills. Let's remember that isiah is a good talent evaluator and if he felt Almond was the better player i'm sure he would've gone after him. Nichols was playing in the Big East and putting up solid performances. It turns out that he's got more game than it was reported. Chandler is young, but you can already see the skills and physical ability. He seems to have a good BB IQ too. These two can give us the shooting we need and more.

BasketballJones
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7/11/2007  2:47 PM
Posted by misterearl:

MS - what is the problem you have with making incremental steps to improve the Knicks roster?

Is it the deals themselves, or the person making the deals?

You may want to reconsider your position and understand the history of the Knicks within the context of keeping a professional franchise relevant in the competitive entertainment smorgasbord of New York City.


As someone who has followed the Knicks franchise since 1967, I can say without any reservation that the current 17 player roster (along with a few Summer League candidates) reflects a significant departure from the strategy employed to acquire players in the past.

There is more young talent on this roster than at any moment in the history of the Knicks franchise. EVER.

and all you want to do is trash them?

c'mon

no one will agree with 100 percent of the moves of any general manager. Isiah is far from perfect, but he is aggressive in the pursuit of talent. Whether it is the courage to take a chance on a reclamation project like DerMarr Johnson or a stealth strategy to sign Randolph Morris.

whether it is the insight to take David Lee or Renaldo Balkman in the first round or the vision to take Collins or Nichols in the second, the Knicks have collected some compelling parts.

whether those parts can mesh will be illustrated in February.

No deal will ever make evreyone happy. Not one. But hey, I got over giving up Keith Van Horn and losing Lonnie Shelton. I got over missing Mark Jackson, Walt Bellamy, and Clarence Weatherspoon. I will also get over Channing Frye wearing a Blazers uni.

I may not, however, ever get over trading Clyde to the Cavaliers.


then you missed the awful period we had back in the early 60's. We had a franchise low 21 wins back in 1960-1961. Back then, we didn't have UltimateKnicks.com. The popular board back then was AwesomeKnicks.com. But we had the same problem with haters and non-believers.

By 67 they were all ready to jump on the bandwagon. Alas, AwesomeKnicks.com went defunct. When the Knicks started playing well, the haters had nothing to talk about anymore.
https:// It's not so hard.
Nalod
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7/11/2007  2:49 PM
Posted by misterearl:

MS - what is the problem you have with making incremental steps to improve the Knicks roster?

Is it the deals themselves, or the person making the deals?

You may want to reconsider your position and understand the history of the Knicks within the context of keeping a professional franchise relevant in the competitive entertainment smorgasbord of New York City.


As someone who has followed the Knicks franchise since 1967, I can say without any reservation that the current 17 player roster (along with a few Summer League candidates) reflects a significant departure from the strategy employed to acquire players in the past.

There is more young talent on this roster than at any moment in the history of the Knicks franchise. EVER.

and all you want to do is trash them?

c'mon

no one will agree with 100 percent of the moves of any general manager. Isiah is far from perfect, but he is aggressive in the pursuit of talent. Whether it is the courage to take a chance on a reclamation project like DerMarr Johnson or a stealth strategy to sign Randolph Morris.

whether it is the insight to take David Lee or Renaldo Balkman in the first round or the vision to take Collins or Nichols in the second, the Knicks have collected some compelling parts.

whether those parts can mesh will be illustrated in February.

No deal will ever make evreyone happy. Not one. But hey, I got over giving up Keith Van Horn and losing Lonnie Shelton. I got over missing Mark Jackson, Walt Bellamy, and Clarence Weatherspoon. I will also get over Channing Frye wearing a Blazers uni.

I may not, however, ever get over trading Clyde to the Cavaliers.


Took me a long time to get over losing Howard Komives! Eddie Donovan could have traded a 5th round pick instead!

The Clyde trade was a dark moment and the Clyde that returned from cleveland is not the same dude that left NYC! At my desk is a trading card of Clyde in a Cavs uniform. Really has not much value as a collector piece but its reminder that no matter how on top of our game we think we are, we can always be replaced.

In fairness, Clyde was on the decline and we could not keep him and Earl at the same time. Clyde was in decline faster and perhaps he was given the choice to retire, get traded, or go to the bench.

But to Cleveland, in 1977 was just plain old mean!

Lonnie Shelton is still with us. He has never left, he has been Truck Robinson, Eddie Lee, Oak, Jackie Blue, Sweetney, and Jerome. Lonnie was a BIG DUDE!


Speaking of Eddie Donovan, look at his record. The guy was 84-194 before they replaced him. He became THE GM that put the great ones together.


[Edited by - nalod on 07-11-2007 2:54 PM]
misterearl
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7/11/2007  2:55 PM
BasketballJones - ah the good old days in the upper deck with my trusty GO card and a one dollar Knicks ticket.

Even back in the days of the territorial draft, when ballers from New York City were the best money could buy, the Knicks STILL managed to botch signing the best young talent.

Even GM Eddie Donvovan and Red Holzman feuded.

But I still don't kvetch over trading Mike Riordan to the Bullets or Cazzie Russell to the Warriors



once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/11/2007  2:58 PM
Nalod - don't forget Spencer Haywood, Kiki Vandeweghe or Terry Cummings
once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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7/11/2007  3:03 PM
The Orlando Magic acquired free-agent forward Rashard Lewis today with a sign-and-trade deal that includes that largest contract in franchise history, a six-year deal worth an estimated $118 million.



[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-11-2007 3:15 PM]
MS
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7/11/2007  3:13 PM
I have no problem with him selecting hustle players from good programs that fill needs at a lower cost, my problem is he makes these awful trades and laughable signings keeping guys that actually want to give there all out there.

If you think crawford actually tries on defense you joking, he is just like curry they get beat and they don't fight to get back in the play and disrupt the shot.

And defense on the playground, meaning you have a bunch of jerkoffs screaming and yelling at each other, while they are trying to hurt the person by sticking them in the ground.

"Fuck the uptown brothers. They never pass the ball, they don't want to play defense, they take five steps on every lay-up to the hoop. "-Spikes writing

Frankly it's not basketball, you can't go 5 minutes without someone starting a fight, cursing at each other, and trying to fight you because they don't know the rules, and they fell disrespected. Most of the time they are 10 feet away because the embarrasment isn't worth the defense....
misterearl
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7/11/2007  3:21 PM
"...hustle players from good programs that fill needs at a lower cost"

Say what?

You don't want a general manager, you want a messiah who walks on water... and of course a team president that refuses to spend any of Gulf+Western's or Charles Dolan's Cablevision money in the world's largest media market is a definate plus as well, right?

Yes?

(sheesh)

MS - are your playground references limited to what Spike wrote?

Playgrounds exist in may places.

Sometimes, even in your mind.



[Edited by - misterearl on 07-11-2007 3:26 PM]
once a knick always a knick
MS
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7/11/2007  3:25 PM
I am just telling you most playground where you have wannabes are very similiar to what i said....

collins temple, lee florida, nicholas cuse......yeah it's not a hard formula to figure out take kids from good programs that work hard and good things happen
misterearl
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7/11/2007  3:33 PM
More Kids From Good programs

Morris - Kentucky

Balkman - South Carolina

Chandler and Richardson - DePaul

Randolph - Michigan State

Jeffries - Indiana

Marbury - Georgia Tech



once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/11/2007  3:35 PM
Dickau - Gonzaga

who sez the Knicks don't have kids from good programs?
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/11/2007  3:40 PM
and please MS - spare the arbitrary drivel about segregating players who "work hard" from those who you think "don't work hard" unless you have actually attended one off-season workout, a weight room session or watched a closed practice.

and yes

I'm talkin' 'bout practice
once a knick always a knick
technomaster
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7/11/2007  3:45 PM
I have no idea what Tyrus Thomas's upside will be (K-Mart or something better?), but from what I've seen, I think Balkman and Thomas have about the same type of impact on a game.

There's this funny thing that happens whenever Balkman takes the floor. I always get the perception that his stat line is going to be packed... then at the end of the game - I'm usually surprised at how thin it is. He's a guy who might make a deflection that leads to a steal or turnover; he's the guy who keeps loose balls loose until a teammate can pick it up; he's the guy who makes the pass before the assists; he's the guy who causes offensive players to panic and give up the rock.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Draft Update: Isiahs Smarter Than You Are?

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