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Portland Buys Out Francis
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kam77
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7/11/2007  11:45 AM
So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
AUTOADVERT
islesfan
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7/11/2007  11:47 AM
Posted by kam77:

So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]

No, I'm ObjectiveBasketballFan.

How bout you put the KoolAid down and take a look at the trade from Portlands point of view.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
MS
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7/11/2007  12:18 PM
I think those fools are looking at a player that demands the ball (francis, marbury, randolf, curry)that hasn't been noted as a defender is a max player and saying wow did we just repeat the same deal over again.

If Isiah had a ****ing brain we wouldn't have had Fracnis in the first place and could have included Frye in another deal to get rid of another bad contract......

The knicks added two more years of salary 17/18 for someone that is not an allstar, and someone that doesn't really improve the team enough to solidify a playoff spot.

And if it doesn't work here we are again in the same exact situation. Cheers!
BasketballJones
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7/11/2007  12:43 PM
Posted by MS:

If Isiah had a ****ing brain we wouldn't have had Fracnis in the first place and could have included Frye in another deal to get rid of another bad contract......

Isiah wasn't in his right mind then. Larry made him do it.
https:// It's not so hard.
kam77
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7/11/2007  12:45 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]

No, I'm ObjectiveBasketballFan.

How bout you put the KoolAid down and take a look at the trade from Portlands point of view.

Why look at their POV? Everyone knows why they got rid of Zack. Besides, its the KNICK view that counts. I like the trade, and I didn't like the Chandler pick but can wait and see what Zack and Nichols can bring to the table.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
arkrud
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7/11/2007  1:00 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]

No, I'm ObjectiveBasketballFan.

How bout you put the KoolAid down and take a look at the trade from Portlands point of view.

Why look at their POV? Everyone knows why they got rid of Zack. Besides, its the KNICK view that counts. I like the trade, and I didn't like the Chandler pick but can wait and see what Zack and Nichols can bring to the table.

How anybody can like Z-bo trade before he even start playing for us?
When he will start contributing to the team to convert loses to wins then it will be something to look at.
20-30 games into the season and I will have some first opinion.







"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
technomaster
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7/11/2007  1:32 PM
They get that cap space briefly - but a year later, they'll need to worry about re-signing their crop of young players to long term contracts. Certainly if they develop the way they're supposed to, Aldridge, Oden, and Roy should be demanding max contracts (or close to it) around the same time (who knows how Jack & Webster will respond to contract years). That gives them like a 1 year window to make out like bandits on the FA market, win a title, then lose 1 or 2 or 3 of their core young players. Or be severely over the cap.

It's an interesting opportunity. We'll just have to settle for more or less stealing Zach Randolph away from them for a bargain price. He's essentially our big-name "free agent signing" except we get him NOW rather than later.
Posted by islesfan:

Portland gets about $18M in cap space in 2 years, which they can possibly use on the missing piece to add to their impressive collection of young talent.

They get the malcontent Zach Randolph, as far away from their impressive collection of young talent as possible.

They get a player taken in the mid lottery just 2 years ago, who Isiah said was the best big man in the draft and would have taken with the #1 overall pick.

The Knicks got one of the biggest stat whore losers in the entire NBA. One that guarantess that they'll be capped out for an additional 2 years, at a minimum.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
islesfan
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7/11/2007  1:44 PM
Posted by technomaster:

They get that cap space briefly - but a year later, they'll need to worry about re-signing their crop of young players to long term contracts. Certainly if they develop the way they're supposed to, Aldridge, Oden, and Roy should be demanding max contracts (or close to it) around the same time (who knows how Jack & Webster will respond to contract years). That gives them like a 1 year window to make out like bandits on the FA market, win a title, then lose 1 or 2 or 3 of their core young players. Or be severely over the cap.

It's an interesting opportunity. We'll just have to settle for more or less stealing Zach Randolph away from them for a bargain price. He's essentially our big-name "free agent signing" except we get him NOW rather than later.
Posted by islesfan:

Portland gets about $18M in cap space in 2 years, which they can possibly use on the missing piece to add to their impressive collection of young talent.

They get the malcontent Zach Randolph, as far away from their impressive collection of young talent as possible.

They get a player taken in the mid lottery just 2 years ago, who Isiah said was the best big man in the draft and would have taken with the #1 overall pick.

The Knicks got one of the biggest stat whore losers in the entire NBA. One that guarantess that they'll be capped out for an additional 2 years, at a minimum.

The team is basically Oden, Roy and Aldridge. Those guys aren't going to be able to ask for max contracts for at least another 4 years, with the rookie contract plus 4th yr option and 5th yr qualifying offer. The Blazers have at least a 2 year window, after Francis' contract comes off their cap, before those guys start taking up major cap room. Or just about the time that some serious free agents can become available.

With money not being a consideration for Paul Allen, they're setting themselves up pretty nicely.

The Knicks did not get Randolph for "a bargain price". That's just ridiculous to say. With his baggage and contract the Knicks are paying a hefty price. Is it really a good thing to have Randolph NOW?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Nalod
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7/11/2007  1:48 PM
Franchise got 30 out of 33 mil, and can get a midlevel on top of that.

Thats a damm lot of money!
islesfan
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7/11/2007  1:50 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Franchise got 30 out of 33 mil, and can get a midlevel on top of that.

Thats a damm lot of money!

Isiah is like Santa Claus for NBA players and Dolan is his stupid little alcoholic elf that lets Isiah give away his ****.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Michael6835
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7/11/2007  2:18 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]

No, I'm ObjectiveBasketballFan.

How bout you put the KoolAid down and take a look at the trade from Portlands point of view.

Why look at their POV? Everyone knows why they got rid of Zack. Besides, its the KNICK view that counts. I like the trade, and I didn't like the Chandler pick but can wait and see what Zack and Nichols can bring to the table.

How anybody can like Z-bo trade before he even start playing for us?
When he will start contributing to the team to convert loses to wins then it will be something to look at.
20-30 games into the season and I will have some first opinion.





How anybody can not like the Z-bo trade before he even start playing for us? The guy had his issues in Portland, but still has skills enough to get him to 20 and 10. He has multiple talents and if he comes in and continues to do what he did on the court (not in the courts ) We will be just fine. It works both ways.
M
Michael6835
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7/11/2007  2:30 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]

No, I'm ObjectiveBasketballFan.

How bout you put the KoolAid down and take a look at the trade from Portlands point of view.

it's a win win for both teams, however you are always happier with the other team.
M
islesfan
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7/11/2007  2:34 PM
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]

No, I'm ObjectiveBasketballFan.

How bout you put the KoolAid down and take a look at the trade from Portlands point of view.

it's a win win for both teams, however you are always happier with the other team.

What trade have I been "happier for the other team", that hasn't worked out better for the other team?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
kam77
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7/11/2007  2:37 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

So what? Are you Blazersfan now?

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 11:45 AM]


No, I'm ObjectiveBasketballFan.

How bout you put the KoolAid down and take a look at the trade from Portlands point of view.

Why look at their POV? Everyone knows why they got rid of Zack. Besides, its the KNICK view that counts. I like the trade, and I didn't like the Chandler pick but can wait and see what Zack and Nichols can bring to the table.

How anybody can like Z-bo trade before he even start playing for us?
When he will start contributing to the team to convert loses to wins then it will be something to look at.
20-30 games into the season and I will have some first opinion.
There was a Poll.

1) I voted I like the deal but want to wait and see.
2) Over half the voters had their mind already made up on the Z Randolph trade. 31% were for the trade and 23% against it. The rest of us are in wait and see mode.








[Edited by - kam77 on 07-11-2007 2:38 PM]
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Michael6835
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7/11/2007  2:38 PM
this one,

praising Portland is cool, but you were focused so much on the 61 mil contract of randolph vs. NY getting rid of a guy who doesn't play and is owed 30+mil. and in return getting a guy that does play but has some issues. So he rolled the dice. Frye wasn't working out anyway.

So I ask you was this not a good trade for NY.
M
Michael6835
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7/11/2007  2:40 PM
I can deal with wait and see, thats better than just totally saying it won't work.
M
nyk4ever
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7/11/2007  2:41 PM
On paper this was a great trade but even Ron Artest looks great on paper.

It's about how Z-Bo fits in with this team and if he can keep his head glued on straight. What in his past has told us that it's a home-run that he will keep his head glued on straight?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
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7/11/2007  2:43 PM
Not even close. From NY's point of view, Randolph is redundant with Curry there, has major baggage that coming to NY won't solve and will most likely exacerbate, has a longer contract than Francis and will keep them from being anywhere close to the cap when major free agents are available in 2 years.

Randolph is not the kind of player you roll the dice on. And if he craps out in NY, his trade value becomes zero until he becomes an expiring contract.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
technomaster
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7/11/2007  3:25 PM
While Curry/Randolph aren't Robinson/Duncan, it is possible for two big men to thrive offensively next to each other. In Duncan's rookie year, they combined for almost 43ppg in the two bigman slots. They combined for 38ppg in the season they won their title (against the Knicks in 99).

I see Randolph as a very similar player to Boozer. It's interesting that coming off his amazing playoff run, he's now seen among the top PFs in the game. I think if Randolph gets an opportunity in the playoffs, we'll see a quick turnaround in his image. Even the somewhat insane Rasheed Wallace has managed to be painted as a clutch player who wears his heart on his sleeve by the league. This is a league that WANTS to forgive.

With high salary comes great expectations. We've already been desensitized to underperforming max-type players, from Houston, to Sprewell, to KVH, to Tim Thomas, to Marbury, to Francis. Of all of these players, Randolph is by far the youngest at age of acquisition and has the highest upside statistically. I'd say he has similar upside to a Boozer or Al Jefferson.

Not only does he have 20-10 potential, he's already realized those holy grail numbers before in his career. I'll reserve judgment to him as a player now that he's a Knick. Let's wipe his slate clean and see what happens. He could be great here.

Like I've said before, I'm not worried about being under the cap. If a player WANTS to become a Knick, he can force a sign-and-trade deal. The Knicks are especially good at creative trades. We're also especially good at turning our young players into tradable commodities.

I think we have more buying power doing things the way he have been rather than doing what many suggest - just buying players out of their contracts for nothing.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Portland Buys Out Francis

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