Posted by TMS:

in all seriousness, i have to disagree with you here bro... defensive teams win championships... we had 7 guys on the roster averaging in double figures last year & it netted us 33 wins... in comparison, the Spurs had only 3 guys average in double figures, but the difference is that team plays excellent team defense, plays a very intelligent style of game & knows how to control the pace of a game better than any other to suit their style... our team can score the ball with the best of them... it's the other areas that need to be addressed on this team... that's why i was so puzzled about the Zach trade (sorry to bring that up again, just using it as an example)... we need a shotblocker & perimeter defender in the worst way, & a guy who knows how to control the tempo of the game & orchestrate (if Steph decides to put his mind to it i think he can handle that part decently well this year, but he's slowly but surely approaching Ron Artest levels of insanity the more i listen to him speak)

um, its a little deeper than that pro, their 3 double figure guys are all all-stars, and one is a perrenial mvp contender, guaranteed hall of famer and quite possibly the best player to play at his position. They play good defense, but offensively there is no match for them. They have 3 furious weapons out there, and they can score their points anywhere on the court in any offense in any fashion. Scoring is a huge part of why they dont lose.

The knicks can score for 45 minutes then can score when it counts. When they do score when it counts that's when they win.

Knicks aren't this crisp offensive team. Zach is gonna do what channing was supposed to do. The knicks will be a lot more on point and will win more games that way.

About this defense, a lot of guys get on craw but when he went down the team went down. He has proven that he means a lot to this team especially down the stretch of games. He comes up with plays and is not bothered by the nyc lights.

Ok now. Perimeter defenders? Who?!?! Who out there can the knicks get that would be worth so much? Knicks need craws ability to be a passer and scorer from outside. So now the knicks have enough scoring without him so they should trade him for who? I just want to have a name thrown out there. Simply saying a perimeter defender is a cop out. Truth is there is no way that simply getting a guy that Can defend with less offense is gonna make any type of impact. One player like that won't make a difference. Its a team concept.

Ok so the knicks should trade Q, craw, marbs, Nate, for who?

The knicks are supposed to George mikan teams untill the clock runs out? Keep getting stops and pray that you keep the game in the 20s so you have shot at winning?

Didnt Golden State give up a nba worst 106.9ppg last season?

Didnt the Mavericks give up 92ppg?

Didnt GS detroy the Mavs in both the regular season and playoffs?

Surely we cant just point to 1 single thing and say thats why we lost

Posted by COSSUCKS:

Didnt Golden State give up a nba worst 106.9ppg last season?

Didnt the Mavericks give up 92ppg?

Didnt GS detroy the Mavs in both the regular season and playoffs?

Surely we cant just point to 1 single thing and say thats why we lost

and that's why it's considered an upset. An upset which probably doesn't happen 9 out of 10 times. For some reason, it happened this time; it doesn't make Golden State a good team.

Posted by Solace:

Posted by COSSUCKS:

Didnt Golden State give up a nba worst 106.9ppg last season?

Didnt the Mavericks give up 92ppg?

Didnt GS detroy the Mavs in both the regular season and playoffs?

Surely we cant just point to 1 single thing and say thats why we lost

and that's why it's considered an upset. An upset which probably doesn't happen 9 out of 10 times. For some reason, it happened this time; it doesn't make Golden State a good team.

It happened all year not just in the playoffs.

It is an upset but just pointing to points allowed or scored will never give much context to anything.

If you looked at points differential that would make much more sense.

alot depends on the guards staying disciplined

turnover (7 per from Curry + Randolph) or miss (low to mid 30's from deep for Knick wings) and its off to the races especially for teams with speed and shooters on the wings bigs with a motor and pgs who rebound like

Kidd Carter RJ and Krstic

Rondo Allen Pierce and Jefferson

Ford Bargnani Parker and Bosh

in the Atlantic alone

[Edited by - McK1 on 05-07-2007 10:26 PM]

Posted by EnySpree:

The knicks can score for 45 minutes then can score when it counts. When they do score when it counts that's when they win.

Knicks aren't this crisp offensive team. Zach is gonna do what channing was supposed to do. The knicks will be a lot more on point and will win more games that way.

About this defense, a lot of guys get on craw but when he went down the team went down. He has proven that he means a lot to this team especially down the stretch of games. He comes up with plays and is not bothered by the nyc lights.

Ok now. Perimeter defenders? Who?!?! Who out there can the knicks get that would be worth so much? Knicks need craws ability to be a passer and scorer from outside. So now the knicks have enough scoring without him so they should trade him for who? I just want to have a name thrown out there. Simply saying a perimeter defender is a cop out. Truth is there is no way that simply getting a guy that Can defend with less offense is gonna make any type of impact. One player like that won't make a difference. Its a team concept.

Ok so the knicks should trade Q, craw, marbs, Nate, for who?

The knicks are supposed to George mikan teams untill the clock runs out? Keep getting stops and pray that you keep the game in the 20s so you have shot at winning?

You raise a question here that I posed in another thread. Who is this shotblocker thats sitting at home waiting for Isiah to call? I think instead of looking at these one dimensional defenders, we need guys who can have some sort of impact on both sides of the ball. JJ2 was a disaster on O last year as would Fred Jones be.

As far as the Knicks leaving guys open on the perimter, its a recognition flaw/and instinctive flaw. When a offensive player darts towards the lane, the Knick wing defender instinctively leaves his man to cut him off at the foul line and is supposed to get back to his man in time in case of a kick back. This seems to have been drilled into them by a coaching philosophy. But the Knicks don't seem to recognize the players they are gaurding. Its one thing to leave Eric Snow to help on a penetrator, but you can't leave Damon Jones to help on someone else. All Damon Jones does is shoot. Knicks need more recognition and decide who to help off of who not to.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 05-07-2007 10:39 PM]

a few years of being horrible & it seems like certain fans are content to return to being a mediocre one again.

Do you expect to go from 33 wins to a Title just like that?

dude, it's been 4 years since Isiah took over & we've been going downhill ever since... last year we had a small improvement but still didn't even sniff the playoffs... your standards have been brought so low that you consider eeking out an 8th seed in a weak Eastern Conference is something to jump up for joy in achieving... this team should have been there a couple years ago.

How good should this team be with up to 4 lotto picks all selected by Isiah Thomas? Or at best 4 mid rd picks? He gave that up when he traded for Marbury & Curry.

How about cap flexability to build a contender. He gave that up when he traded for Marbury & his contract. S&T for Jamal Crawford & gave him a 7yr deal. Signed Jerome James 5yrs 30mil, Signed Jefferies for 5yrs 30mil. Not to mention J.Rose, M.Rose, Taylor, & Francis.

With all those lotto picks & all that money given away shouldn't we be a contender at this point? Shouldn't Curry, James, Jefferies, Crawford, Marbury all be leading us deep into the playoffs year after year with all the picks as well as 100-200mil spent so far??

Patience would be going for cap space and keeping draft picks to target a franchise player by either high lotto picks or having the cap flexability to acquire one. Doing what we have been doing isn't patience. Its trying to win now. Its not up to us to show patience anymore. Its time for them to show results. When you make win now moves you expect win now results. When you make moves to gain cap flexability thats when you get patience.

Again I will state that in the last 27yrs every championship calibre team has won with a strong to great defensive frontcourt. We might have the worst defensive frontcourt in the NBA right now. I do believe we have some flexability to mold the team into a championship calibre team. But I don't believe Isiah will do what he needs to do. He has done nothing as an NBA exec to make me believe that he will.

The #1 road with the highest success rate is to land a superstar through the draft with a very high lotto pick. But we seem to have run away from that road.

Better Team D, Fewer TO's and solid 3pt shooting to keep the D honest on Zach and Curry.

And we don't have the pieces to do any of them consistantly well. We haven't been a good ball control team since Sprewell was traded in 02/03. Marbury & Crawford who will get 30+mins averaged 5.2 turnovers last season while. Randolph & Curry averaged 6.8 turnovers a game combined and they are going to hold the ball a lot next season. Thats 12 turnovers just by 4 of our possible starting 5 right off the bat. So why should I believe that we will do better? Better team D, We haven't played great D since Camby, or even solid D consistantly since Mutombo & Muhammad in 03-04. So why should I believe that we will get it done in that department this comming season? 3pt shooting is probably the best possibility. But even that isn't a gurantee as we were a 34% 3pt shooting team last season. Our best 3pt shooter Nichols probably won't get much burn at all next season. And we replaced Francis a 38% 3pt shooter last season with Randolph a 29% 3pt shooter.

Im not trying to be negative. But I am trying to make a point. Why should I assume that they are going to do these things when they haven't in yrs. Its up to them to prove to me that they could do these things consistantly.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by TMS:

Do you expect to go from 33 wins to a Title just like that?

dude, it's been 4 years since Isiah took over & we've been going downhill ever since... last year we had a small improvement but still didn't even sniff the playoffs... your standards have been brought so low that you consider eeking out an 8th seed in a weak Eastern Conference is something to jump up for joy in achieving... this team should have been there a couple years ago.

No it's only your impatience that warps your ability to deal with this situation. In your mind 4 years is a long time. TOO LONG. In the real world it actually can take time to put a winning team together. Now we started this off going in the wrong direction, but since we added Curry 2 years ago we've gotten back on the right road. It had some pot holes in year one, namely LB, but last year wasn't a bad year in every way. Only the fact that we didn't make the playoffs and gain some experience.

If you can't see what we've added to this team in the last 3 off seasons then I don't know what to tell you. You'll never see it. it's not about having lower standards. It's about understanding where you're at in the process. Something that many Knick fans haven't been able to grasp. Exactly what would you prefer? A complete rebuild? Then you'd most definitely be waiting a few years for that team to be built into a winner. You also better have some damn good luck too. So what's your wish exactly? How quickly do you think this process would happen if we did a complete rebuild. Cuz there are many teams still waiting for their rebuild to bear fruit. I haven't seen any of them actually win a title yet. Heck most traditional rebuilds haven't even made the Conf. finals.

The 20/20 hindsight fact is this team should have been blown up after 99.

Instead, we keep proscribing aspirin for a brain tumor- and patience isn't going to make the pain go away.

Isiah has one more season to get better- its play offs, or his head.