Posted by kam77:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by kam77:

DETROIT traded for Rasheed and won it all.

that's your example of that megastar? lol... how about Chauncey Billups who signed w/the Pistons as a FA & helped them to win a title?

if you want to talk about role players, i can name you free agents like Robert Horry, Bruce Bowen, Michael Finley & Brent Barry who helped the Spurs win multiple championships too for that matter... the fact remains, cap flexibility & the ability to sign FA's most definitely IS a key factor in how teams have constructed winning teams over the past several years... those are the facts, whether you choose to believe it or not.

See this is where you run into trouble with your hyperbole. Rasheed Wallace was not Bruce Bowen. Rasheed a couple years back was the catapult Detroit needed and they won the title wit him as their "Max" player. Chauncey was a MLE signing that any team could have gotten, including the Knicks.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by djsunyc:

btw critics of isiah haven't change direction as much as isiah has with his roster, style of play (which is what exactly?), and coaches.

I don't think Isiah ever changed directions actually. I think he always wanted to put together a veteran team that could squeeze out as many wins as possible *immediately* (rather than rebuilding) and would bring in as much money as possible. He just had to accumulate some young players to get those veterans and had to keep a few young ones around to be able to say he was rebuilding.

Now how does that make ANY SENSE whatsoever? All he's done in the last 3 years is make the team younger and better. We all want more wins, but there has to also be some amount of common sense when it comes to expectations and the results. We've had a strange last 2 years, but this last season in particular had at least a gradual upswing in wins and I can see this team continuing to improve this coming season.

Isiah said he wanted to make the team younger, more athletic and to eventually win. I think he's been trying to do that and in the last 3 offseasons that's pretty much all he's looked to do. The wins are the last part of the puzzle to come and I believe we'll see that this season. It was said that it would take hiim 3-5 years to fix this team when he took over and he seems to be about on target in year 4.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by kam77:

And with Cap flexibillity in two years comes its own risk. IF we are still a poor team, what Superstar will push to come here? Everyone seems to be looking at that 04 draft class with LeBron, Dwayne, Carmelo, Bosh as if we'll be certain to acquire one of them. Its a risk! We could just as easily blow it on a Larry Hughes type. Even a Michael Redd is a max money guy.

My problem with the trade isn't the cap space. My problem with the trade is that he isn't a good fit. If Isiah's plan was to move Curry for a shotblocking rebounder defensive anchor. As well as move Crawford for a pure outside shooting SG. As well as add in a playmaking PG to replace Marbury. Then I would be happy with the deal. But Isiah has no idea how to build a contender. He will be content with Randolph, Curry, Crawford, Marbury we will probably be good enough for a 6th seed hopefully. We have the talent to be higher, but we won't have the chemistry or balance to do so.

The fact that Randolph isn't a good fit and Isiah doesn't know how to build a contender is what has me worried about the cap. Because if Randolph doesn't work out we are stuck even longer. Then after more yrs of mediocracy Isiah will just make another big move. Add another big salary just to add excitment again but we will continue to be mediocre and over the cap. If we went for cap space, got cap space and still don't land a superstar with it we still would have a ton a flexability. If our team is poor then that means we would have high lotto picks. We could target a franchise player by drafting him with our lotto picks. Then have the cap space and flexability with our other draft picks to build a championship contender around him.

Posted by subzero0:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by kam77:

And with Cap flexibillity in two years comes its own risk. IF we are still a poor team, what Superstar will push to come here? Everyone seems to be looking at that 04 draft class with LeBron, Dwayne, Carmelo, Bosh as if we'll be certain to acquire one of them. Its a risk! We could just as easily blow it on a Larry Hughes type. Even a Michael Redd is a max money guy.

My problem with the trade isn't the cap space. My problem with the trade is that he isn't a good fit. If Isiah's plan was to move Curry for a shotblocking rebounder defensive anchor. As well as move Crawford for a pure outside shooting SG. As well as add in a playmaking PG to replace Marbury. Then I would be happy with the deal. But Isiah has no idea how to build a contender. He will be content with Randolph, Curry, Crawford, Marbury we will probably be good enough for a 6th seed hopefully. We have the talent to be higher, but we won't have the chemistry or balance to do so.

The fact that Randolph isn't a good fit and Isiah doesn't know how to build a contender is what has me worried about the cap. Because if Randolph doesn't work out we are stuck even longer. Then after more yrs of mediocracy Isiah will just make another big move. Add another big salary just to add excitment again but we will continue to be mediocre and over the cap. If we went for cap space, got cap space and still don't land a superstar with it we still would have a ton a flexability. If our team is poor then that means we would have high lotto picks. We could target a franchise player by drafting him with our lotto picks. Then have the cap space and flexability with our other draft picks to build a championship contender around him.

He isnt a good fit based on what? Your object analysis of their last 10 games together?? Get real.

Randolph makes a lot of money. If he doesn't work out here his value is going to be shot and he isn't going to be tradable then we will be stuck with him

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by kam77:

It could be that not that many teams were going after Zach Randolph because a lot of teams are aiming for KG and holding onto their assets.

But i see you r point about Francis. We're conditioned to expect the worse. I think a 25 year old post player is different than a 29 year old PG with a bad wheel.

It's not even close. Zach is coming into his prime and he's gotten better. This is just like the Curry trade. Their original team didn't work out and we benefitted. Why would anyone ever really want to trade or let Shaq go and yet it happened. That doesn't diminish his value to the team that's getting him. We are getting a great young player and this team is getting a huge boost for very little cost. All summer there have been fears that we'd give up guys like Lee, but here we are with a great player having been added and we STILL have Lee. People who want to bash this deal have no grounds to stand on. Even the so called trouble Zach has gotten into has been overstated. That Police force and the Media there seems to have had a microscope on him and went out of their way to embarrass him. Most of the so called history of bad acts are merely accusations. With so many of them turning out to be nothing, it makes it clear there was some overzealous activity against him. I'm sure he made a lot of poor decisions, but they also blew things out of proportion too.

Posted by BlueSeats:



You sound almost as confident of this deal working out as you were about Steph and Francis flourishing together and the "quick" offense.

Don't worry Blue, they are still going to run the "quick" offense, just with a few new wrinkles, like 2 low post players.