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Do you like the Zach Randolph trade?
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kam77
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Do you already know its a bad move? Do you already know its a good one? Are you undecided? Are you leaning in one direction yet still undecided?
I like the trade
I think i will like it, but lets wait and see
I can't even decide yet - Lets wait and see
I think i wont like it, but lets wait and see
I dont like the trade
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Bonn1997
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6/29/2007  9:42 PM
Posted by blueNorange:

for what Isiah gave up how can you not like it??

he basically turned a player who looked lost, a bum, and a 08 2nd rounder into a 20 and 10 player, 2 expirings, and a sharp shooter
Did we give up a draft pick too???
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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6/29/2007  9:44 PM
I like the trade and I think it will make this team better. A lot still depends on the improvement from our perimeter players, but I believe that the overall impact of adding Zach will be many more wins. We were pretty darned close to being a .500 team last year with all the problems and many of the games we lost last year will be wins this year with a more potent team. I think this will push this team over .500 by a fair # of games. Not 50 wins, but at least 45 wins next season.

Many people have concerns about our D and that's a valid concern, however, let's not forget that there are other teams who already play worse D than we do and they still manage to win games. We had a -2.8 point differential and I believe we'll be closer to a plus number this year. Wash was a -0.6, LAL -0.1, Orl was a +0.8, Tor was a +1.0. I think we can get close to those numbers. Our D isn't likely to be good enough to get us very high, but a +1.0 is a good goal to have.
MaTT4281
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6/29/2007  9:56 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by blueNorange:

for what Isiah gave up how can you not like it??

he basically turned a player who looked lost, a bum, and a 08 2nd rounder into a 20 and 10 player, 2 expirings, and a sharp shooter
Did we give up a draft pick too???

The pick was for Nichols. It was all combined into one trade.
Finestrg
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6/29/2007  10:08 PM
I would've loved Martell Webster (still think Zeke should've held out a little longer man, maybe even came back to this at a later time or rather let Pritchard come back to him later - we had all the time in the world on this one. Who else beside Isiah and the Knicks we're interested in Randolph and his contract?) but as it stands I guess it's not too bad a trade on paper. How he works next to Curry is the real question.
Bonn1997
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6/29/2007  10:11 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by blueNorange:

for what Isiah gave up how can you not like it??

he basically turned a player who looked lost, a bum, and a 08 2nd rounder into a 20 and 10 player, 2 expirings, and a sharp shooter
Did we give up a draft pick too???

The pick was for Nichols. It was all combined into one trade.

Oh, now I get it.
Finestrg
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6/29/2007  10:18 PM
Yeah and getting Nichols kinda kinda makes me feel a little better knowing that we stupidly left guys like Almond and Rudy Fernandez on the board at #23.
nixluva
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6/29/2007  10:58 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

Yeah and getting Nichols kinda kinda makes me feel a little better knowing that we stupidly left guys like Almond and Rudy Fernandez on the board at #23.

I don't know how stupid that was. Nichols from all reports has more upside than those two.


Position: SF
Height: 6”8”
Weight: 212lbs

Accolades: Three-time Street and Smith’s Magazine Honorable Mention All-American – high school, Third Team Parade All-American (03), Rhode Island Gatorade Player of the Year – high school (03).

Scouting Report: A big time scorer with a great three-point touch.

Strengths: Scoring – can score in many ways – catch and shoot, dribble drives, three-point shots. Great three point shooter – currently shooting 45% from deep. Decent rebounder for his size. Long limbed - grabs steals and swats shots. Experienced – played in a big time conference for a big time program known for producing NBA talent.

Weaknesses: Very thin – needs to add some size and strength for the next level. Can he defend the athletic wing players in the NBA – Syracuse plays mostly zone defenses. Not overly athletic.

Projected 2007 Draft Range: Early to mid second round pick.

Consensus: Nichols could find a niche in the NBA as a long-range shooting specialist. Whether he is strong and athletic enough to contribute more than that in the pros is the question.

Here's one scouting report mention from Draftexpress:

Defensively, Nichols was matched up with Dominic McGuire in the second half, and whenever he got the ball and tried to put in on the floor, Nichols did a good job moving laterally to stay in front of him, not letting him score the ball against him. He played aggressive man defense when his man had the ball in his hands, but got caught not boxing out at times when his man didn’t have the ball.

There's a lot of good info on Nichols on this webpage: http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=610
Vmart
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6/29/2007  11:14 PM
I like this trade its going to make the Knicks a playoff team next year. Getting rid of Francis for Randolf has baggage but Francis had his baggage to. Anyway you look at it Isiah turned Francis and Frye into a 23-10 player you have to like this move because Francis is done.
djsunyc
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6/29/2007  11:17 PM
Posted by kam77:

If you think this is the same deal you're just not looking past the surface similarities.

Zach = Young dominant bigman. Francis = nothing like that.

In fact, i think this settles the debate that Larry Brown called for Francis and Isiah has finally cleaned that mistake up.

marbury and francis are two similar players that share similar roles in the offense - both need to control the ball to be effective and both require to look for their offense before distributing.

now we have two big men that both operate on the same part of the court, play similar roles in offense, and need the ball so they can get their shots up.

i don't think those are surface similarities. it's redundancies within their roles on the offense.

it's tough to find any team with two primary post players have any real success in recent bball history. one of these guys are gonna have to seriously sacrifice their games (like frye did) and one of these guys (if not both) will be on the bench at the end of games.

20pts from curry in 06/07 + 23 pts from zach in 06/07 DOES NOT equal 43 pts from curry and zach in 07/08.

and the risk is that if we can't find some chemistry on offense, there is no defense to fall back on...

this is a big time gamble...but one we can take b/c we have unlimited financial resources.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2007 11:19 PM]
BasketballJones
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6/29/2007  11:38 PM
It's good to see Larry's plan finally coming to fruition. Now we know why he begged for Steve Francis. Like a chess-master he was making several moves in advance. He knew that someday Francis would be part of a blockbuster trade to bring Zach Randolph to the Knicks.

https:// It's not so hard.
nixluva
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6/29/2007  11:51 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by kam77:

If you think this is the same deal you're just not looking past the surface similarities.

Zach = Young dominant bigman. Francis = nothing like that.

In fact, i think this settles the debate that Larry Brown called for Francis and Isiah has finally cleaned that mistake up.

marbury and francis are two similar players that share similar roles in the offense - both need to control the ball to be effective and both require to look for their offense before distributing.

now we have two big men that both operate on the same part of the court, play similar roles in offense, and need the ball so they can get their shots up.

i don't think those are surface similarities. it's redundancies within their roles on the offense.

it's tough to find any team with two primary post players have any real success in recent bball history. one of these guys are gonna have to seriously sacrifice their games (like frye did) and one of these guys (if not both) will be on the bench at the end of games.

20pts from curry in 06/07 + 23 pts from zach in 06/07 DOES NOT equal 43 pts from curry and zach in 07/08.

and the risk is that if we can't find some chemistry on offense, there is no defense to fall back on...

this is a big time gamble...but one we can take b/c we have unlimited financial resources.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2007 11:19 PM]

I understand your fear of this not working, but just a couple of observations. For one thing Zach faces up way more than Curry does at this point. Zach is also a lefty and tends to prefer the opposite side of the court from where Curry likes to setup most of the time. Zach and Curry will both see stretches of time without the other on the floor. This will provide a fair amount of time where they can be the only primary post threat, but when they're on the court together Zach can play just as well in the mid and high post.

Also Steph has progressively taken fewer and fewer shots per game. He's not likely to have a problem with giving up the ball. He actually has a history of not looking for his own offense as much to start games and even more so now. I think he's welcomed the relief of having the scoring pressure on his back and he knows he's not the same guy he used to be. I don't predict any problems on that front.

As a team I feel we're going to once again be at the top of the league in drawing fouls. You think teams had trouble with us getting to the line a lot before, well it's only gonna get worse for them now. When Curry comes out we no longer have to worry about a focal point for the offense. Don't underestimate how impactful that will be. This team is gonna score a lot of points next year. Just imagine Zach, Lee, Q, Balkman and Mardy together!!! You think that won't be a problem for other teams in terms of keeping us off the boards? That's 5 REALLY good rebounders and some good defenders too. To me Zach's presence will make a HUGE difference.
Bobby
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6/30/2007  12:35 AM
i love this trade because you can tell where all the fickle fans are hidding:

the ones that keep on spewing no one wants our players

feel free to jump on the bandwagon anytime
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
4949
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6/30/2007  12:41 AM
Posted by TMS:

because of the cap ramifications, no... talent wise, the Knicks obviously make out, but i'd much rather have stood pat & waited for a chance to go after a talent worth paying out max dollars for.

Unfortunately, most people in NY don't believe in that kind of thinking. I know Thomas doesn't. I know most people on this board don't. The only ones I ever hear talking of holding out is ironically enough 'the press'. I'll never understand myself, but have to accept this kind of strange deal making as a way of life. I'm just another hoper now.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TMS
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6/30/2007  9:50 AM
yeah, i think several years of complete disregard for the cap by Knicks management has conditioned people to think along the same lines... unfortunately, that's never proven to be the way towards building a championship contender... Isiah, Dolan & many fans seem to be incapable of understanding this concept.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
kam77
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7/3/2007  10:54 AM
Originally posted by TMS:

people can't help it if they disagree with a move... you either agree with it or you don't... there's no in betweens...

WHAT? Almost 50% of us are in-between. There are 10 or so hardcore haters that will bash the move and probably the same # of lovers who love every move. But most of us are reasonable Knick fans who wait and see.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Bippity10
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7/3/2007  10:57 AM
As with every Isiah Thomas trade I have no idea what to expect. Great talent with a checkered past. He could be a revelation. He could be just another in a long line of overpaid players leading us to 35 win seasons, excuse making and telling the fans not to judge him harshly. Because Isiah never goes for proven winners, once again I have to sit back and hope and pray that this one works out.
I just hope that people will like me
playa2
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7/3/2007  11:00 AM
Like SAS says "we need some dogs on the team" Z-BO fits that title perfectly, he's relentless and works very hard on his game.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TMS
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7/3/2007  12:39 PM
Posted by kam77:
Originally posted by TMS:

people can't help it if they disagree with a move... you either agree with it or you don't... there's no in betweens...

WHAT? Almost 50% of us are in-between. There are 10 or so hardcore haters that will bash the move and probably the same # of lovers who love every move. But most of us are reasonable Knick fans who wait and see.

Just how many years do you intend on taking that "wait & see" approach everytime Knicks' management makes these types of moves? I was once willing to take a "wait & see approach" too... Isiah traded for Marbury & I was optimistic, but that obviously hasn't panned out well for us at all... Isiah traded for Tim Thomas & again, I took that "wait & see" approach... again, I was disappointed... then he trades for Steve Francis, & although everything about his past told me that it wouldn't work out, still I took an optimistic approach because I thought another deal was coming to make sense of it all... it never came.

now again, we have this Zach Randolph trade & you are choosing to take that same "wait & see" approach... I've lost faith in these types of moves because history has taught me that they don't work out in our favor... I was satisfied that finally we were on the road towards some sort of fiscal responsibility after last season when Dolan decided to buy out the contracts of Jalen Rose & Mo T rather than using them as trade chips to obtain players with bloated albatross deals... plenty of posters around here were in agreement that it was a good sign of things to come, that Dolan may finally have gotten the hint that spending irresponsibly on talent without regard for how they will mesh & fit together was the WRONG thing to do...

now all i'm hearing on this board from plenty of those same posters is that this is a move that Isiah would have been foolish to pass up on, regardless of the effect it has on team chemistry or the cap situation... there's a ton of inconsistency going on around this forum & i'm not pointing the finger at you persay... i just find it ridiculous that those same inconsistent individuals would be pointing fingers at those of us who have remained consistent in not wanting any part of players like Zach Randolph on this team & accusing us of being fools for having bought into that whole fiscal responsibility shpiel that Dolan & Isiah were promoting throughout the past year.

feel free to remain optimistic & take that "wait & see" approach... i hope it works out for us, i really do, but history tells me that it won't, so sorry if i don't share in that same optimism anymore.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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7/3/2007  12:45 PM
Honest truth is I'm currently undecided. Despite being labeled a hater, I think the trade has as much of a chance to work out as it does of being an absolute disaster.
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
kam77
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7/3/2007  12:54 PM
Thats a refreshing perspective. To me, I'm willing to give it a year. Or maybe the results will be evident by the trade deadline and we look to make a move then. We have options now, we're no longer "Eddy's team" alone.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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