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Here is a picture of Sweetney skying over the rim
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BRIGGS
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5/6/2003  10:02 AM
Thats fine--your opinion. But I find it funny that people want to draft guys they have never seen--who they just read about because of their height. When people say draft baby shaq or Pavel the siberian bear I have tolaugh. They have NO idea what they are talking about.The ONLy thing I have read about Baby Shaq was the college scouting repoort rivalsthat said he was horrible in terms of basketball fundamentals. I have barely even heard of the other guy and they dont poccess bodies of work in games.The NY Knicks have already went the route in drafting fred Weiss--they have had massive blunderous problems with Vujonic.The ONLY foreign guy that I would be happy with[and im sure the Knicks management feels the same way] is arko Milicic. Other than that Im sure they will explore trading the pick first,then lok to take the best player available who can help NOW.Just because you are 7-4 or your name is Baby shaq has ) bearing on how long or IF you will ever play NBA basketball. these guys unlike Darko havent proven a lick they can play the game at a big time level. Really these guys have no business entering the draft.This is actually where agents get their play. Take my client and Ill make sure I lock upthis free agent yadyada--thats how it works.Thats why we have Howard Eisley Luc Longley etc..because Layden waslead into believeing that we were getting Mutumbo at thetime.

You know last year atleast we KNEW that Nene played VERY well AGAINST the dream team and Amare Stoudemire was adominating insideforce in HBB and a top 5 prospect. People dont know ANYTHINg but complete hearsay about foreign players for the most part. If baby shaq played Mike Sweetney--if he gets matched upagainst a powerful skill player--he will make him look dumb.
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Caseloads
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5/6/2003  10:56 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

You know last year atleast we KNEW that Nene played VERY well AGAINST the dream team and Amare Stoudemire was adominating insideforce in HBB and a top 5 prospect. People dont know ANYTHINg but complete hearsay about foreign players for the most part. If baby shaq played Mike Sweetney--if he gets matched upagainst a powerful skill player--he will make him look dumb.

These guys will come over for workouts if they want to get drafted. I'm sure Kaman will come in for one, maybe against Pavel.

Sweetney will surely come in for NYK, and so will baby Shaq.
tkf
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5/6/2003  11:48 AM
Briggs, Othella fell to the second round because he was not as tall as many thought he was in college, remember he was supposed to follow in that long great line of Georgetown bigmen, except Othella was not that big, he had a good college career but that team belonged to Ivy once he came. comparing sweetney to Othella is fitting, ture sweetney may be a better player but on the next level with his type of game and his height issues he may be in the same mold of a Othella Harrington, come on man the only undersized PF's that make it big either have a great post up game or good athleticism like a Elton Brand, and there are just not many of those guys, everyone else becomes Weatherspoon, Othella, fortson, etc.. see where I am going?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Swishfm3
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5/6/2003  12:14 PM
But I find it funny that people want to draft guys they have never seen--who they just read about because of their height. When people say draft baby shaq or Pavel the siberian bear I have tolaugh. They have NO idea what they are talking about...

Gotta agree with you on this one. That's why you will never read from me a post discussing any of those players...
but...
you are guilty of the same thing. I'm not claiming to be a College expert, but I do watch as much as I can...and unless you live in the DC/VA area (which I do)..or Michigan, I DOUBT very much that you've seen either of these guys play enuff to make an accurate eval.

My point is...as much as some of us might hate it, sometimes we have to go by what these bogus sports writer have to say regarding these overseas and college players....
Vmart
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5/6/2003  12:50 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Thats fine--your opinion. But I find it funny that people want to draft guys they have never seen--who they just read about because of their height. When people say draft baby shaq or Pavel the siberian bear I have tolaugh. They have NO idea what they are talking about.The ONLy thing I have read about Baby Shaq was the college scouting repoort rivalsthat said he was horrible in terms of basketball fundamentals. I have barely even heard of the other guy and they dont poccess bodies of work in games.The NY Knicks have already went the route in drafting fred Weiss--they have had massive blunderous problems with Vujonic.The ONLY foreign guy that I would be happy with[and im sure the Knicks management feels the same way] is arko Milicic. Other than that Im sure they will explore trading the pick first,then lok to take the best player available who can help NOW.Just because you are 7-4 or your name is Baby shaq has ) bearing on how long or IF you will ever play NBA basketball. these guys unlike Darko havent proven a lick they can play the game at a big time level. Really these guys have no business entering the draft.This is actually where agents get their play. Take my client and Ill make sure I lock upthis free agent yadyada--thats how it works.Thats why we have Howard Eisley Luc Longley etc..because Layden waslead into believeing that we were getting Mutumbo at thetime.

You know last year atleast we KNEW that Nene played VERY well AGAINST the dream team and Amare Stoudemire was adominating insideforce in HBB and a top 5 prospect. People dont know ANYTHINg but complete hearsay about foreign players for the most part. If baby shaq played Mike Sweetney--if he gets matched upagainst a powerful skill player--he will make him look dumb.

BRIGGS you are very limited to college. Guys like you would never have found an Nowitski, Gasol, Divac, Peja, Parker, Giricek, Drazen, Sabonis, Marcalonis, Ming all these guys are foreign players and you would have passed them up. Why because you don't want to expand your horizon. we're lucky some one found Hakeem, Smits, to play in college if they were like you they would never have been found. College ball is nothing like it was in the past. Now the best athletes leave after HS and if they are good they leave after their first year in college. I would take the 7'4'' 300 pound Pavel why because I know that if he played in college in the US he would dominate it for 25-30 points a game and grab 10-15 rebs. Just like Benoit Benjamin and Shawn Bradley.

I think somewhere in the course of this season you wanted to get Gasol on the NYK you were willing to give number one picks for three year to get him. This is the same guy if you saw his stats in the Euro league you would pass up in the draft. We all need to take a wait and see attitude. Numbers in college don't necessarily add up in the NBA and Number in the euro league don't add up in the NBA. As draft time comes around we will get the low down on all the players and from that we will be able to formulate an opinion better. Last year when the hype was Wilcox, I said take Nene and you said Stoudamire or Butler. I saw Wilcox play in college and I knew he wasn't the guy. I'm not saying that Sweetney isn't the guy I just don't think he is the answer for the Knicks. I think you shouldn't sell the foregin player short their pro leagues have surpassed the college game. Everyone on this board knows that any Euro league pro team would wax a top college team.
BRIGGS
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5/6/2003  1:37 PM
Are you kidding me? georgetwon is on NationalTV 10times a year plus they are on the Big east network which shows 2 games a week on UPN. On topof that Gtown was on TV for 4 NIT games just a few months ago.You literally couldve watched him play 20 times THIS YEAR. If you dont believe me go emailDigger phelps or Dickie V and ask them about Sweetney.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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5/6/2003  1:40 PM
You are blabbering if you are comparing othella to Sweetney.
RIP Crushalot😞
tkf
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5/6/2003  3:06 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

You are blabbering if you are comparing othella to Sweetney.
No I am being realistic, who the hell do you want me to compare him to? Webber, Brand, Duncan, Barkley? LOL... come one man, It is more ridiculous to compare sweetney to any of the other PF's I mentioned than to compare him to othella.....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BigSm00th
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5/6/2003  3:31 PM
"No I am being realistic, who the hell do you want me to compare him to? Webber, Brand, Duncan, Barkley? LOL... come one man, It is more ridiculous to compare sweetney to any of the other PF's I mentioned than to compare him to othella....."-The only real reason why Sweetney can be compared to Harrington is because both are a tad undersized (Harrington moreso then Sweetney) and because they both went to Georgetown. Sweetney's numbers speak for themselves, and when you compare then with the numbers Harrington had at GTown, you can tell Mike is a different player.

I don't necessarily want him, I'd rather the Knicks take the best player available, whoever that may be, or get Kaman becuase there are just no centers anymore and Kaman is a true one, but comparing Sweetney to Harrington is fairly absurd. Do I want him? Not really, but the comparisons aren't accurate. I've seen both play live in college and on TV, and I watch Harrington as a Knick every game and they are different types of basketball players.
#Knickstaps
BigSm00th
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5/6/2003  4:06 PM
A few tidbits I found interesting from the NBADraft.net scouting report on Sweetney:

On his post-moves: "He knows his position, and lives in the painted area and around the blocks. Has great hands for a big guy, and some nice low post moves. Has decent footwork and a a nice little turnaround jumper, and his hook shot is improving."

On his competition: "He is constantly double teamed."

On potential: "If he were a few inches taller he would be a top 5 pick. He will play in the NBA for a very long time. He is a coaches dream because of his work ethic, and he will surely get better. Has a wonderful, unassuming approach seen in the little things such as his willingness to carry team equipment on trips."

On athleticism: "Not a super run jump athlete. He isn't very explosive." "However in no way is he immobile"

On size: "Will be undersized at the 4 in the NBA. Although he might not be a franchise type player in the NBA, he will be a contributor for sure."

He sounds like a guy that would be a 18/10/2 player in 3 years. I'm so sick of these height debates. You'd take a 7'6" Shawn Bradley over a 6'8" Ben Wallace? Allen Iverson isn't even 6 feet tall, and Barkley probably wasn't any bigger then 6'6".

My point is size isn't everything. With his wingspan and with his body built the way it is, he could definitely be a good post player in the NBA. That's my take, anyway.
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tkf
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5/6/2003  6:04 PM
Big smooth: Actually the comparisons with Harrington and Sweetney are accurate, maybe not numbers wise but how their size and ability translate to the NBA makes for a good comparison. Listen I may be wrong on this one but sweetney is a undersized PF who is not a great athelete or with great down low moves and neither is harrington, but both know how to use their body to get a shot, but sweetney is a better comparison to othella than he is to any of the better PF's in the league, Other than Elton Brand I don't know many undersized PF's in the league that are head and shoulders above the rest. And Brand is an above average athlete at that position. Looking at his abilities and what I have seen of him this year like 5 games he seems to me closer to Harrington than Brand or Webber, or even Kurt Thomas for that matter...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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5/6/2003  6:11 PM
Another thing, Sweetney put up good numbers in a bigman starved Big east, you say comparing him to othella is absurd yet who is there that we can compare him to that would not be as equally absurd. Brand, Webber? lets not go there, Othella put up good numbers off the bench for the knicks, And looking at his abilities and Harringtons both are pretty similar except sweetney may be a little bigger and that is all, find me a better comparison, until then he is othella #2..haha...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Caseloads
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5/6/2003  6:35 PM
Posted by tkf:

Another thing, Sweetney put up good numbers in a bigman starved Big east, you say comparing him to othella is absurd yet who is there that we can compare him to that would not be as equally absurd. Brand, Webber? lets not go there, Othella put up good numbers off the bench for the knicks, And looking at his abilities and Harringtons both are pretty similar except sweetney may be a little bigger and that is all, find me a better comparison, until then he is othella #2..haha...
rofl
prodson
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5/7/2003  1:51 PM
i wouldn't pick sweetney but then again i don't think i would be disappointed if the knicks did pick sweetney. i guess you could say that i'm between the rim and the floor on this one.

just like sweetney is in the above the rim picture that briggs posted.
all those years as a fan and now i'm the anti-knick. life is crazy aint it.
Swishfm3
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5/7/2003  1:54 PM
^^The funny thing was the post he wrote....
Look how high this guy is off the ground--powering a dunk through someone else. This is a serious player.
BigSm00th
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5/7/2003  5:23 PM
The Knicks need a guy who can score from the blocks to open up their perimeter game. Sweetney has proven he can do that (the best post defender in the country, Emeka Okafor, played for UCONN, who is in the Big East). At pick 9 I don't really see anybody else who helps the Knicks except maybe Kaman. They need size, guys who can rebound, guys who can block, and guys who can score from the post. Sweetney can do all of the things pretty well, undersized or not. Barkley was undersized at PF and he was one of the top 50 of all time. Brand is only 6'7" or 6'8", and Ben Wallace is the best defender and rebounder in the game and he's no bigger then 6'9" (with his hair in rows, that is.) Iverson can score whenever he wants, people have his height ranging from 5'7" (Charles Rosen reported it at this in his last column) to 5'11". Size isn't everything.

And just from watching Sweetney, he's a much better shotblocker and rebounder then Harrington was in college and is now, and is much stronger. Look at that muscle definition on Othella's arms. You'll be looking for a long time.
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rain
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5/7/2003  5:44 PM
I would bet anyone on this site... that sweetney is not our pick. Good college player... that won't project. He's like ND's Mike Humphry with less athleticism and bigger body.
BRIGGS
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5/7/2003  5:44 PM
Two years ago Sweetney made Okafor look very mediocre in the only head to head match up. the bottom line is when the skill sessions open and the one one ones take placein the draft camps. When sweetney who is very quick and skilled and is used to double and triple teams gets open one to one movement against theBaby shaqs the Lampes Vereijo etc.. they wont let darko workout with anyone because he is projected very high. But you better believe all the guys will have to face Sweetney and when they do they will look BADLY outclassed. Zach Randolph is not a high jumping PF and measured 6 /8 34 with sneakers at 265 when he came into the NBA. But he has long arms and a high skill level with a soft shot+ he is a hard worker. Heck BEN WALLACE is 6-8 250. And for those who compared othella to Sweetney please. Sweetney is much stronger, 25 pounds heavier and has a 7-2 wingspan and is a legit 6-8 260 in sneakers. Othella is 6-7 235 pounds soaking wet at best.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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5/7/2003  6:05 PM
Ill stick with what I believe

either

A.the Knicks trade up to draft Kaman
B. the Knicks trade the pick to get younger and bigger i.e Thomas Ward and #9 to Indiana for Brad Miller and Al harrington--something like that
C. the Knicks take the best post player available at 9. there is no athletic 3 that is close to worthy of a 9 in this draft. I would rather draft Sweetney and get rid of Harrington if that be the case. Bottom line is we need an upgrade in the frontcourt and a guy who can block shots. At pick 9 there will be NO player better than Sweetney. Not Nick collison not Baby shaq no one. remember we probably wont have mcdyess.If we cant trade for one[pf]--would you rather have 35year old PJ BROWN? or worse harrington and spoon? sweetney atleast will give us more presence physically and has very young legs.


the Knicks WILL NEVER take a project at 9---they have 4 point guards ifyoucount milos and I feel we will be able tograb Troy bell inthe 2nd round anyway. Anyone can blast the pick without offering their own solution of a draft choice.
RIP Crushalot😞
rain
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5/7/2003  7:00 PM
Sweetney is not very quick. That is one of his problems... he's not "explosive" at 6'8 260. Thats the problem I have with him. He's a duplication on our roster and a really bad fit. I'd take someone with some upside we can develope on our roster until we get out of cap hell. I do like Kaman, and would consider him... I like the reports I am hearing about the two guys from France. Especially Boris Diaw, 6'9 ... likes to play defense.. excellent athleticism. Sofoklis Schortsianitis 6-9 280 PF (younger, bigger, quicker).. played against good competition in Europe. I have a feeling well end up with either of these three after we lose the lottery.
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Here is a picture of Sweetney skying over the rim
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