Posted by sebstar:

my bad, I guess I should have read between the lines and understood that this thread was a referendum on Marbury. So many guys get bashed, and the cheapshots are so scattershot, I have a hard time keeping up.

I'm largely out of ammo here, Marbury's record is his record. Its largely indefensible, and I'm not going to make the effort to cover for a multi-millionaire. I thought he had a really good year last year, BTW. And there is little reside from the LB debacle, so hopefully he continues the momentum with a further retooled roster.

A lot of the things you view as settling I just dont agree with. Most glaring is the extension. With all the upheavel over the past few years, I can understand wanting to keep things stable. Especially if Dolan believes in Zeke. Dont confuse mistakes with a lack of effort. But then again this is NY and fans have that sense of entitlement.

Posted by playa2:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bippity10:

"The reason that we win consistently is that Pop is never satisfied, and as a result, neither are we."

-Tim Duncan

I hope we realize that its' time to stop complaining about the demands of the fan and as a team never be satisfied with the results we give. Being happy with outperforming a 23 win year needs to be eradicated.

LB brought that type of mentality & the team seemed incapable of handling his high demands... i totally agree with you but i don't know if this team is ever going to be that type of team until they get a star player that buys into that mentality & sets the right example for everyone else to emulate... we don't have that.

I agree with what you said TMS.

If we had a star veteran player who would have accepted LB ways and Philosophy all the other players would have fell in line.

Parker and Duncan talk about how crazy and unrealstic popovich is sometimes and they still continue to play hard for him.

Could it be Guys from the virgin Islands and talented euro players are easier to persuade and coach than american players?

i think it's more of the case that we have 2 guys on this team in Marbury & Francis who have been catered to all their lives, told they were the SH-T on every team they've ever played on, & approach the game of basketball with a feeling of entitlement, rather than the necessary hunger & desire to make themselves & their teammates better all the time & never settling for less from any of their teammates. this IMO (& some of you may disagree, that's your prerogative) has been a HORRIBLE influence on the young kids in their development... we need to get a guy in here who will command respect from everyone on the team & kick these guys in the rear when they're not performing up to par... we can't leave Q Rich & Malik to be the only guys kicking chairs & blowing up at teammates when they're playing like crap.

Posted by franco12:

If Marbury came out and said nothing less than a championship will be acceptable- to me, that kind of statement is like a lot of guarantee's that pro athletes make all the time- empty.

Lets be realistic- this squad with this talent isn't in the running for a championship. Its baby steps- For all the team went through with the mismatched cast off pieces of flawed but talented players, the LB soap opera, the injuries down the stretch to key guys- 33 wins isn't something to be proud of, but I think it was a pretty good first step.

Now issues of pay roll and results- that's a different story- and that falls to Isiah and Dolan- mostly Dolan because he's the one who won't accept a true rebuild and has cobbled together bad deals as a band aid to the real problem.


I honestly think the mindset of the knicks improved this year- yes, there was a boatload of excuse making that Isiah put out in the press- but the thing I point to is the effort Marbury started to give on defense.

I think the team is pointed in a better direction.

I'm not nixluva so I don't think its necessarily the right direction- I still think Curry was a bad move and if we could move him and get back a pick and a prospect, I'd be happy- If I were GM, I'd call Dallas up and see if they would be interested in a Curry for Josh Howard type move- with us possibly getting a pick or two back.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by sebstar:

my bad, I guess I should have read between the lines and understood that this thread was a referendum on Marbury. So many guys get bashed, and the cheapshots are so scattershot, I have a hard time keeping up.

I'm largely out of ammo here, Marbury's record is his record. Its largely indefensible, and I'm not going to make the effort to cover for a multi-millionaire. I thought he had a really good year last year, BTW. And there is little reside from the LB debacle, so hopefully he continues the momentum with a further retooled roster.

A lot of the things you view as settling I just dont agree with. Most glaring is the extension. With all the upheavel over the past few years, I can understand wanting to keep things stable. Especially if Dolan believes in Zeke. Dont confuse mistakes with a lack of effort. But then again this is NY and fans have that sense of entitlement.

This thread was not directed at Marbury in any way. It was directed at a team that is devoid of a leader. We keep talking and talking about our talent and yet the last 2 years we have not matched wins to our "talent". A leader has to step up at some point.

Posted by Bippity10:

I do think Isiah needs to stop kidding himself and get down to business. Our biggest problem for the last 3 years has been targeting players not motivated by winning, but players motivated by outside factors like, who coaches, how the fans treat them, how perfect the situation is. In that situation a leader will not evolve. But when you target players who's sole motivation is winning games, magically a leader will step to the forefront.

I think Isiah did target these types of players during this years draft and David Lee and Frye in last year's draft. But he has wasted a million moves in between and that is what has left fans frustrated. When you see your GM acquire a player you know is not a fit and then do it again. And then after two years finally get that guy and then tell you "that was the plan all along" it gets really frustrating.

Isiah is not an idiot and knows what it takes to win. He knows that EC is the only chance this team has of being a true contender. So it's time to build around him and then sit back and pray that 7 rebounds a game ceases to be acceptable to Eddie.