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Best deal for Kobe we can give up?
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bigbeast
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6/16/2007  11:45 AM
Posted by tomverve:

Even if we got Kobe we'd still have a ways to go to be a quality team. It's not as simple as just having a few offensive powerhouses in Kobe, Curry, and Marbs. For one thing, trading Lee would substantially weaken team rebounding, which was one of the only bright spots last season. Shooting %s might go up, but if offensive rebounding nosedives and if the turnover situation doesn't get a lot better, then in total the gains on offense are limited.

And of course getting Kobe doesn't do a whole lot to address the defense. Again, losing Lee hurts here as it knocks us down a few notches in the only part of the defensive game we were above average at, which is defensive rebounding.

I dont disagree that losing Lee will hurt our overall team rebounding, but if Balkman starts at Sf, our rebounding wont suffer too much.
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nixluva
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6/16/2007  12:05 PM
Bonn can you get serious for a minute here? Curry will still see PLENTY of shots, it's the other guys that would see fewer shots with Kobe on the team. We should also remember that Kobe has tried to involve his teammates in LA, but his scoring became a necessity when the team had injury.

I would expect the TO situation to improve, due to Kobe handling the ball a lot more. Also the offense would likely be a bit sharper with the floor spread much better. A lot of our TO's came on Offensive fouls and due to Team crowding the paint. That won't happen as much with Kobe on the floor.

As for the idea of our rebounding not being strong, I think that we'd still be a good rebounding team. If you look at how the team did even without Lee we still managed to rebound very well. Having Lee just makes us even better, but this team overall rebounds very well. We would dip a bit, but we'd also probably score more as well, so I think that would more than offset the loss of a few rebounds per.
EnySpree
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6/16/2007  12:16 PM
The knicks would obviously have to plug in holes. They would have to do it cheaply just like san Antonio. Just like someone said before, joe smith, get some snipers and goons like fortson. Keep shuffling till the right pieces work. The coaching system would have to play to all strengths and the players would have to believe in what they are doing. Definately a plan.
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BRIGGS
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6/16/2007  12:26 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:
Posted by BRIGGS:

2007 # 23
2009#1 pick
David Lee
Channing Frye
Jamal Crawford
Nate Robinson
Malik Rose

That is entirely too much to part with for a player that isn't going to get the Knicks to the Finals. It's almost absurd.

Kobe is better than any player in the east. Curry and Marbury are very high at their respective positions. Right there alone should get you to the finals from the east and really its what San Antonio used as their formula--three main guys with good role players. Put it this way Kobe is better than Lebron and Cleveland went to the finals on his back.
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Anji
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6/16/2007  12:47 PM
That is a very good deal and the knicks would be the best team in the east.
Curry
Aron williams type MLE
Balkman
Kobe
Marbury

with Collins and Q off the bench, all we would need is either Morris to step up or a backup Center.
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bitty41
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6/16/2007  1:04 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by jaydh:

I would think LA could get a better deal elsewhere for Kobe. And why would Kobe come here if he is looking to win now? It just doesn't make sense.

Kobe has a no-trade clause and can waive a trade to any destination that is not to his liking- no matter how good a deal it is for LA. Kobe says he wants to win now, but he also keeps saying he wants to play in NY. Those are clearly at odds, but we'll see what it is he ultimately wants.


Everytime there is a big star that talks about trade or opting out everyone throws out there well this NY. Yet when was the last time a big-time player signed with the Knicks or a big-time player was traded to the Knicks? Camby, Houston, Spreewell, these guys weren't even all-stars at the time when they were traded. Face it all this talk about its NY is just that talk. NY right now looks leap years away from Championship and we have very little to offer in the way other talented players. Sure Knicks fans may see David Lee, Mardy Collins, Jamal Crawford, or Eddy Curry as marquee players but maybe the rest of league doesn't. The Lakers already gave up Shaq for next to nothing other than Lamar Odom. Do you honestly think they would even consider giving up Kobe for almost nothing. We don't even have an all-star caliber player nor do we have any guys who have led what one might call explemary careers but yet the Lakers are going to pick up that phone and make a deal to send Kobe to NY for what a 10 and 10 guy, or 17 and 9 center they would have to be retarded. If I were Jerry Buss for that kind of deal Kobe would stay in LA.
EnySpree
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6/16/2007  1:27 PM
Marbs, kobe, curry is just as deadly as san antonio's Duncan, Parker and manu.

Key is, its a team game. That's why clevland got swept. Their staff didn't have their team ready. They had the players but their focus was all wrong.

Kobe could instantly fall into craws role and dominate from there. Marbs playing off the ball. Curry still the focal point. With that core, knicks need their own mikki Moore, pavlovic, Damon Jones, Robert horrys, or any mofo that's not intrested in stroking their egos and want to catch a ride playing a role in a championship team.
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TheGame
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6/16/2007  2:10 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by bigpimpin:
Posted by BRIGGS:

2007 # 23
2009#1 pick
David Lee
Channing Frye
Jamal Crawford
Nate Robinson
Malik Rose

That is entirely too much to part with for a player that isn't going to get the Knicks to the Finals. It's almost absurd.

Kobe is better than any player in the east. Curry and Marbury are very high at their respective positions. Right there alone should get you to the finals from the east and really its what San Antonio used as their formula--three main guys with good role players. Put it this way Kobe is better than Lebron and Cleveland went to the finals on his back.


Totally true. Marbury is better than any PG Cleveland has and Curry, at least on offense, is better than Z. You add Kobe to this team and start Balkman at SF to be the defensive stopper and rebounder and we find some journey man PF like Fortson or some else to plug in at PF spot and this team is going to the conference finals at least.
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Bonn1997
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6/16/2007  2:38 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Marbs, kobe, curry is just as deadly as san antonio's Duncan, Parker and manu.

Key is, its a team game. That's why clevland got swept. Their staff didn't have their team ready. They had the players but their focus was all wrong.

Kobe could instantly fall into craws role and dominate from there. Marbs playing off the ball. Curry still the focal point. With that core, knicks need their own mikki Moore, pavlovic, Damon Jones, Robert horrys, or any mofo that's not intrested in stroking their egos and want to catch a ride playing a role in a championship team.

I think Magic, Worthy, Kareem would be a closer comparison
Cookdcokehop
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6/16/2007  2:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

2007 # 23
2009#1 pick
David Lee
Channing Frye
Jamal Crawford
Nate Robinson
Malik Rose

They are no taking Channing Frye in that deal. I wish they would but they are going to take Lee over Frye.

I say Francis and Crawford plus as many Future picks as possible

for Kobe and Radmonivic
Michael6835
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6/16/2007  2:47 PM
All this talk is getting me excited, I really hope Kobe ends up in NY. It's ok to dream right, at least once in awhile.
M
tkf
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6/16/2007  3:04 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by jaydh:

I would think LA could get a better deal elsewhere for Kobe. And why would Kobe come here if he is looking to win now? It just doesn't make sense.

Kobe has a no-trade clause and can waive a trade to any destination that is not to his liking- no matter how good a deal it is for LA. Kobe says he wants to win now, but he also keeps saying he wants to play in NY. Those are clearly at odds, but we'll see what it is he ultimately wants.


Everytime there is a big star that talks about trade or opting out everyone throws out there well this NY. Yet when was the last time a big-time player signed with the Knicks or a big-time player was traded to the Knicks? Camby, Houston, Spreewell, these guys weren't even all-stars at the time when they were traded. Face it all this talk about its NY is just that talk. NY right now looks leap years away from Championship and we have very little to offer in the way other talented players. Sure Knicks fans may see David Lee, Mardy Collins, Jamal Crawford, or Eddy Curry as marquee players but maybe the rest of league doesn't. The Lakers already gave up Shaq for next to nothing other than Lamar Odom. Do you honestly think they would even consider giving up Kobe for almost nothing. We don't even have an all-star caliber player nor do we have any guys who have led what one might call explemary careers but yet the Lakers are going to pick up that phone and make a deal to send Kobe to NY for what a 10 and 10 guy, or 17 and 9 center they would have to be retarded. If I were Jerry Buss for that kind of deal Kobe would stay in LA.

come on man, camby led the league in blocks before he came to the knicks and was known as a young player on the rise, sprewell was second team All NBA I think before he came to the knicks and this was when the league had pippen and Jordan in their primes.... really you are way off there my man...
Sure Knicks fans may see David Lee, Mardy Collins, Jamal Crawford, or Eddy Curry as marquee players but maybe the rest of league doesn't.

nah, that is just you talking to sensationalize your post, no one thinks lee and collins and mardy are marquee players, we think they are good players and I think the league thinks so also.. As far as curry have you read the threads on this board? who thinks he is marquee with the exception of a few posters?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
bitty41
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6/16/2007  3:22 PM
come on man, camby led the league in blocks before he came to the knicks and was known as a young player on the rise, sprewell was second team All NBA I think before he came to the knicks and this was when the league had pippen and Jordan in their primes.... really you are way off there my man

1. Before Spreewell came to the Knicks he had one foot out the door after the whole coach choking incident. No one wanted to touch him the Knicks took a chance on getting him hardly not the same thing as luring a Kobe Bryant to NY or a KG.

2. Camby has always been considered injury prone and somewhat of an underachiever again hardly a big-time player. He's not on the level of a guys who are MVP candidates i.e. Kobe.

Seriously your on something if you believe that before Spreewell and Camby came to NY that they were these hot commodities that a lot of teams were fighting over. Do you see a pattern essentially the Knicks have never won out in some big stakes for a player. We haven't pulled in a big-time player via trade or free-agency in the last 20 years (no Marbury doesn't count) yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon when KG, Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal's name comes up.
nah, that is just you talking to sensationalize your post, no one thinks lee and collins and mardy are marquee players, we think they are good players and I think the league thinks so also.. As far as curry have you read the threads on this board? who thinks he is marquee with the exception of a few posters?

So to you its logical to think that the Lakers would trade (what many consider) the best player in the league to a team that doesn't even possess one legit all-star player?

[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-16-2007 3:28 PM]
VDesai
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6/16/2007  3:25 PM
If Kobe really demanded a trade, couldn't he just start sitting out (or tanking it) if they didn't appease him?
tkf
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6/16/2007  3:40 PM
Posted by bitty41:
come on man, camby led the league in blocks before he came to the knicks and was known as a young player on the rise, sprewell was second team All NBA I think before he came to the knicks and this was when the league had pippen and Jordan in their primes.... really you are way off there my man

1. Before Spreewell came to the Knicks he had one foot out the door after the whole coach choking incident. No one wanted to touch him the Knicks took a chance on getting him hardly not the same thing as luring a Kobe Bryant to NY or a KG.

2. Camby has always been considered injury prone and somewhat of an underachiever again hardly a big-time player. He's not on the level of a guys who are MVP candidates i.e. Kobe.

Seriously your on something if you believe that before Spreewell and Camby came to NY that they were these hot commodities that a lot of teams were fighting over. Do you see a pattern essentially the Knicks have never won out in some big stakes for a player. We haven't pulled in a big-time player via trade or free-agency in the last 20 years (no Marbury doesn't count) yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon when KG, Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal's name comes up.
nah, that is just you talking to sensationalize your post, no one thinks lee and collins and mardy are marquee players, we think they are good players and I think the league thinks so also.. As far as curry have you read the threads on this board? who thinks he is marquee with the exception of a few posters?

So to you its logical to think that the Lakers would trade (what many consider) the best player in the league to a team that doesn't even possess one legit all-star player?

[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-16-2007 3:28 PM]

you are changing your argument, you said that sprewell and camby were not even allstars, all this other stuff about sprewell and the choking incident is another conversation. But if you want to go that route, sprewell came with bagage otherwise we would not have gotten him, but the kobe situation is similar, this is about a guy who wants out and has most of the control over where he can go. I don't see why that is so hard to understand. Teams are not going to give up the farm to the lakers who have lost some leverage...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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6/16/2007  3:43 PM
Posted by bitty41:
come on man, camby led the league in blocks before he came to the knicks and was known as a young player on the rise, sprewell was second team All NBA I think before he came to the knicks and this was when the league had pippen and Jordan in their primes.... really you are way off there my man

1. Before Spreewell came to the Knicks he had one foot out the door after the whole coach choking incident. No one wanted to touch him the Knicks took a chance on getting him hardly not the same thing as luring a Kobe Bryant to NY or a KG.

2. Camby has always been considered injury prone and somewhat of an underachiever again hardly a big-time player. He's not on the level of a guys who are MVP candidates i.e. Kobe.

Seriously your on something if you believe that before Spreewell and Camby came to NY that they were these hot commodities that a lot of teams were fighting over. Do you see a pattern essentially the Knicks have never won out in some big stakes for a player. We haven't pulled in a big-time player via trade or free-agency in the last 20 years (no Marbury doesn't count) yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon when KG, Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal's name comes up.
nah, that is just you talking to sensationalize your post, no one thinks lee and collins and mardy are marquee players, we think they are good players and I think the league thinks so also.. As far as curry have you read the threads on this board? who thinks he is marquee with the exception of a few posters?

So to you its logical to think that the Lakers would trade (what many consider) the best player in the league to a team that doesn't even possess one legit all-star player?

[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-16-2007 3:28 PM]

what I think and logic doesn't mean shyt here... It isn't logical to trade kobe anywhere, he is the best player in the league, but that is not the case. Was it logical to trade shaq to miami for spare parts? But it happened..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Anji
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6/16/2007  3:47 PM
IN these type of trades, when does the other ever get an Allstar??? Who is the Allstar the sixers are show casing for AI, LOL.
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TMS
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6/16/2007  3:49 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Chicago may be less likely to decide they want throw the house at Kobe when they have some other really good trade candidates they could also potentially acquire at cheaper cost.

i know it's a reach, but personally i think Kobe really in his heart wants to come play in NY... why go to Chicago & play in Michael's huge shadow the rest of his career? really, what could Kobe possibly accomplish in Chicago that Michael already hasn't? on the other hand, if he comes to NY & leads this franchise to a championship, he'll be an icon in NY for the rest of his life... i think the draw of NY is huge for Kobe.
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bitty41
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6/16/2007  4:02 PM
what I think and logic doesn't mean shyt here... It isn't logical to trade kobe anywhere, he is the best player in the league, but that is not the case. Was it logical to trade shaq to miami for spare parts? But it happened

Thank you for bringing that up. Now the Lakers gave Shaq away for next to nothing which I just mentioned do you honestly think they would do it again for Kobe especially considering how much money he brings to that franchise for ticket sales, merchandise, and assortment of other things for what?
IN these type of trades, when does the other ever get an Allstar??? Who is the Allstar the sixers are show casing for AI, LOL

The Iverson trade was a long time coming. Philly wanted to rebuild because they weren't even making the playoffs with Iverson. He's always had a shaky relationship with management and in the end Philly got I think it was 4 draft picks, and Andre Miller which isn't all that bad. Miller is one of the most underrated point guards in the league and now they the money and picks to really reshape their team.
newyorknewyork
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6/16/2007  4:30 PM
LA looks like this after the deal.

Bynum/Frye/Mihm
Lee/Brown/Cook
Odom/Radmonovic/Walton
Crawford/Evans/Vujacic
Farmer

With the 19th & 23rd pick they could come away with Splitter, Cook, Williams, Almond, Belinilli.
They would have 6 prospects in Bynum, Frye, Lee, Farmer & 2 first rd draft picks.

There longest contract would be Crawford & Radmon which goes until 2010/2011. There highest paid player would be Odom who has about 2yrs 28mil left.

While they may not get star power back. Crawford & Lee would provide fans. Bynum would provide hope. They would have a ton of flexability as well as a very good cap situation.
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