Posted by Solace:

Posted by martin:

happens all the time. Better start opening your eyes. Most employee agreements are at will so firing/hiring, staying/quiting happen at a moments notice and smart employers actually plan for this kind of thing, so it's naive to think that $10K are lost and good alternatives are expired. And that's why employment offers are followed by a written letter offer.

Seriously, I want to know how many years you have been working and what your experience is.

Again, we're in 100% agreement that this happens all the time. I'm not niave to the situation, as you seem to be misinterpreting. I've been working in the software industry for six full years. Again, nobody said employers weren't reasonably prepared either. I don't know where you're interpreting that. I'm talking about the morals. You're talking about it happens, which I agree with; it happens. But my argument is that it's not right.

As for employment offers, they are followed by a written letter offer, but it's not binding, since everything is at will. Prospective employees can go back on these and have. Is it legal, YES. I never stated otherwise. Is it right? No.

I also acknowledged, that in extreme circumstances, like an ill family member in another state or citizenship issues, it's understandable. These are rarely the case. Usually it's just people who can't make up their mind. That's unfortunate and MORALLY wrong.

It's morally wrong that I can't date Jessica Alba and **** the **** out of her.

It's not RIGHT and it sure doesn't happen, but it don't make it a bad thing.

Posted by martin:

It's morally wrong that I can't date Jessica Alba and **** the **** out of her.

It's not RIGHT and it sure doesn't happen, but it don't make it a bad thing.

Downright silly example. I mistakenly thought you wanted to have a serious discussion. That's clearly not a moral issue.

Posted by highfivesucka:

isn't a verbal agreement legally binding in most states though? I mean I'm sure Sac would let him go if it was understood that SVG wants to coach Orlando, but legally I think that's how it works

Verbal commitments are binding where a contract is expected to be signed by both parties under the "good faith" rule of tort law.

Stern has concluded in some rulings already that any legal verbal commitment is enforceable. He has actually concluded in rulings that any illegal verbal commitment carries consequences. It is more than likely that if Orlando really wants SVG it will cost them draft picks if SVG has already verbally committed to the Kings.

Posted by EnySpree:

I agree this bitch way of doing business is getting outta hand. As with all things, people just let it go and talk about it in an internet forum mad ass hell and not do anything about it.

Billy donavon should be black listed by the NBA. Billy should also fire his agent. The NBA should investigate Orlando on possible bad business practices being he is so worried about public image.

I agree that the Magic should black list, but they won't. As for a company, what can you do? The best you can do is agree not to ever consider that employee since he's proved unreliable. Any further, more public, action holds much more risk than reward. Unless the laws were changed, as a organization, your hands are tied to take any recourse, unless there is a binding contract. Yes, it's a bitch way of doing business.

I will say one other thing, though. If you're an organization, there is one case where you can take some sort of recourse. That is in making headhunters aware of a person who backs out after accepting. Most headhunters will not deal with someone who has this sort of history, since someone backing out costs them a lot of money and time. Their salary is based on people taking a job and staying x # of months so they get paid (usually something like 8-10% of the first year salary). That is one thing companies can do. It's an aside from the basketball discussion, because this issue runs deeper than basketball, even though it's on public display here.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by EnySpree:

I agree this bitch way of doing business is getting outta hand. As with all things, people just let it go and talk about it in an internet forum mad ass hell and not do anything about it.

Billy donavon should be black listed by the NBA. Billy should also fire his agent. The NBA should investigate Orlando on possible bad business practices being he is so worried about public image.

I agree that the Magic should black list, but they won't. As for a company, what can you do? The best you can do is agree not to ever consider that employee since he's proved unreliable. Any further, more public, action holds much more risk than reward. Unless the laws were changed, as a organization, your hands are tied to take any recourse, unless there is a binding contract. Yes, it's a bitch way of doing business.

I will say one other thing, though. If you're an organization, there is one case where you can take some sort of recourse. That is in making headhunters aware of a person who backs out after accepting. Most headhunters will not deal with someone who has this sort of history, since someone backing out costs them a lot of money and time. Their salary is based on people taking a job and staying x # of months so they get paid (usually something like 8-10% of the first year salary). That is one thing companies can do. It's an aside from the basketball discussion, because this issue runs deeper than basketball, even though it's on public display here.

As long as Donovan proves he can win at the highest level in college he'll be considered for future NBA jobs if there's interest.

Right. That second paragraph was speaking outside of basketball. That's one reason the NBA situation is so frustrating. Donovan WILL get a job on another NBA team later if he wants to and have another chance to pull this ****. It might even be the Magic again.

Well, not if you believe this:

Van Gundy resigned as the Heat's coach 21 games into the 2005-06 season, citing personal and family reasons. Riley said he tried several times to get Van Gundy to stay but took over, leading the Heat to their first championship.

But then again, Riles was probably just obeying one of those 48 laws of power Solace talked about. Reputation and such.

The fallout from an argument like the one martin is making is that we have to look at scumbags like Riley and say "hey, he's not such a bad guy."