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New "Slow and steady " Mr. Thomas...
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nixluva
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5/31/2007  8:11 PM
Posted by islesfan:

With this group of overpaid underachievers, young role players and pathetic management?

No, it can't happen.

"If we can add to this mix and fill our needs this team should be good for a nice 4-6 year run."

That's just more BS Isiah used car salesperson speak. Completely unspecific and overly optimistic at the same time. Any non successful team can say it but only totally gullible people believe and repeat it.


How specific can anyone be about a team that is looking to improve until that team actually makes a deal for a new player or we actually see how the players perform next season? All anyone has is hope and speculation. I really don't get your point at all.

And tell me why in your infinite wisdom why this team CAN'T be improved? What makes you so sure that we can't make a deal for a player that helps this team to get to where we all want to be? How can you say for sure that one or more of our young players can't blossom to be even better than they've shown in the short time they've been in the league? The truth is you can't be that definitive cuz you just can't predict the future like that. This is not a guarantee that Isiah will get it done, but I don't think it's that far fetched to imagine a good deal happening or for some of our young players to improve.

This is what I just don't get from you. We just saw Curry begin to show what he can do and gain confidence. We just saw Lee have a nice jump in his production. Balkman and Mardy both showed that they can play in the limited time they got. We haven't even seen these guys after a summer of work with the coaches. Perhaps one of them or both make good improvement this summer and contribute a good deal to what we're doing next year and beyond. With your thinking no young prospect that isn't taken in the lottery will ever be anything good. That's just not the way history has shown things to be. Besides this isn't only about next season. This is a long term thing. This team isn't an old team that has to get it done in the next 2 years or else. We've got time, but for some reason you seem to be thinking short term.

With your attitude I would expect that you won't be watching the games next season. Since you already believe we've failed before we've begun. Why not pick another team already and go follow them? Since we can't get better under Isiah, why not save yourself the pain and trouble. Become a fan of the Spurs they win all the time.
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bobs3304
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5/31/2007  8:19 PM
All i have to say is if this was any other orginization isiah would've been fired last year.


MICHALE JORDAN was even fired...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Pharzeone
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5/31/2007  8:44 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

All i have to say is if this was any other orginization isiah would've been fired last year.


MICHALE JORDAN was even fired...

True. I think Jordan was used in DC though for ticket sales. I think they always expected him to suit up for the Wizards so that had a lot to do with him in that position. There was no problem with Jordan when the Wizards were selling out games.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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5/31/2007  9:46 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

All i have to say is if this was any other orginization isiah would've been fired last year.


MICHALE JORDAN was even fired...

not only was jordan fired...but so was kiki.

kiki took a team that was over the cap with 2 nasty deals, dumped them. traded a microfracture dice for matchstick man camby (which turned out great for them) and nene (which is looking good now even if he passed on amare). he then got cap room to sign a pg in andre miller. tanked to get a high lotto pick in a top heavy draft and took melo. signed kmart (who any team in the league would've loved to have at the time). his only real blemish was drafting skita.

but outside of that, kiki did a VERY good job for denver (at least made them a perennial playoff team). yet he was fired.

different standards.
islesfan
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5/31/2007  9:52 PM
Yet Isiah "earned" a lucrative 4 year extension for his work here in NY.

We should all have bosses that utterly clueless and in need of more rehab.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nixluva
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5/31/2007  9:57 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

All i have to say is if this was any other orginization isiah would've been fired last year.

MICHALE JORDAN was even fired...

Isiah isn't the only GM that has survived while his team has failed to improve season after season. Isiah has been on the edge here, but I go back to the fact that he's drafted well and since he took over as coach, you can see that the team responded well to him. I think Dolan could see that the team never gave up even when they were losing late in the year. He's not ignoring the fact that Curry showed so much promise as the focal point of the offense. Dolan also had to look at the landscape of possible replacements and the prospect of starting all over and there are no guarantees that someone else would be able to get it done any faster.

That said Isiah knows that he has to get more out of this team next season. IF he had been able to make it to the playoffs this year it would've gone a long way towards improving public opinion of the job he's done. I think that will happen for him next year. I think he is closer to putting this thing together than some even realize.
islesfan
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5/31/2007  10:06 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by bobs3304:

All i have to say is if this was any other orginization isiah would've been fired last year.

MICHALE JORDAN was even fired...

Isiah isn't the only GM that has survived while his team has failed to improve season after season. Isiah has been on the edge here, but I go back to the fact that he's drafted well and since he took over as coach, you can see that the team responded well to him. I think Dolan could see that the team never gave up even when they were losing late in the year. He's not ignoring the fact that Curry showed so much promise as the focal point of the offense. Dolan also had to look at the landscape of possible replacements and the prospect of starting all over and there are no guarantees that someone else would be able to get it done any faster.

That said Isiah knows that he has to get more out of this team next season. IF he had been able to make it to the playoffs this year it would've gone a long way towards improving public opinion of the job he's done. I think that will happen for him next year. I think he is closer to putting this thing together than some even realize.

Yeah, you definitely work for Isiah.

How much does he pay you?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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5/31/2007  10:12 PM
Posted by nixluva:

He's not ignoring the fact that Curry showed so much promise as the focal point of the offense.

         05/06    06/07
ppg      95.6     97.5
fg%      45.5     45.7
fga      75.7     77.5
3fg%     36.2     34.6
3fga     10.8     16.7
ft%      72.6     71.5
fta      31.6     29.2
nixluva
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5/31/2007  10:16 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by bobs3304:

All i have to say is if this was any other orginization isiah would've been fired last year.

MICHALE JORDAN was even fired...

Isiah isn't the only GM that has survived while his team has failed to improve season after season. Isiah has been on the edge here, but I go back to the fact that he's drafted well and since he took over as coach, you can see that the team responded well to him. I think Dolan could see that the team never gave up even when they were losing late in the year. He's not ignoring the fact that Curry showed so much promise as the focal point of the offense. Dolan also had to look at the landscape of possible replacements and the prospect of starting all over and there are no guarantees that someone else would be able to get it done any faster.

That said Isiah knows that he has to get more out of this team next season. IF he had been able to make it to the playoffs this year it would've gone a long way towards improving public opinion of the job he's done. I think that will happen for him next year. I think he is closer to putting this thing together than some even realize.

Yeah, you definitely work for Isiah.

How much does he pay you?

Well you're obviously not a Knick fan. I don't know what team you REALLY root for but clearly it's not the Knicks anymore. Why do you even bother to post here anyway? I can't really remember any post by you that was at least somewhat fanlike.

Do you want for the Knicks to pick a SG or PF like Williams? Do you think we should trade that pick in a a deal to get a guy like Rashard or Artest or JO or Pau? Are you hoping for Curry and all of the Knicks young players to have a great summer and really work on their games? There are a ton of legit concerns that a REAL FAN would have and yet I don't get any of that from you. It's all negative crap all the time. One joke after another. No recognition of the postive things our young players have done so far in their young careers. Apparently their all garbage since Isiah drafted them or brought them in. Why not just admit that you're really a NJ Nets fan?


bobs3304
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5/31/2007  10:23 PM
I'm watching this vid Comsic put up on RGM, Isiah talking about Kobe availability.

And I swear, Isiah's public persona is "Mr. Nice Guy", but it's making me sick just hearing him spew out that media friendly garbage.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Michael6835
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5/31/2007  10:31 PM
I actually like to hear the new rhetoric. It's what many of you have been calling for the longest. Just let players expire and gain some cap relief, so now when the coach/president finally jumps on board we have a problem. You people talk like we had much to work with in the 4 years that he has been here. The roster is changed totally, at least now there are players that have some type of value. And we also have a focus and a plan of how we are building the team. I don't get it, now when the managment finally gets on board, we're still talking crap about them. Typical Ny fanbase.

most of the NY players are in their mid 20s and the truth is that if we continue to make progress each year along with a goal of getting under the cap, then there is no reason to doubt that we could sign a big name FA.
We added 10 games on to our win total from last season, maybe next season we add another 10 and make the 8th seed in the playoffs. Maybe the year after we add another 5-10 more wins to be close to a 50 win team. When you take a look back the games we lost this year, it's not hard to see that with determination that this team can definately improve to at least be a lock for a playoff appearance in the next few years.

The I hate everything IT does bantor is very old. You can not honestly argue with his plan to look for cap relief. Or what about him signing the Morris kid, basically getting a free 1st round pick. He is improving as a GM or maybe its grunwald ? Who cares, they are all connected anyways.
M
nixluva
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5/31/2007  10:38 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

He's not ignoring the fact that Curry showed so much promise as the focal point of the offense.

         05/06    06/07
ppg      95.6     97.5
fg%      45.5     45.7
fga      75.7     77.5
3fg%     36.2     34.6
3fga     10.8     16.7
ft%      72.6     71.5
fta      31.6     29.2

DJ part of the reason those numbers are close had to do with the way we finished the year. This team was scoring much better before the injuries and the ending numbers were down from what they should've been. My comment had to do with predicting what this team can be down the line as we continue to develop Curry and this team in this system.

I think that what get's overlooked is that we're still trying to refine this team in this system. Last year was the dress rehearsal for what this team wants to do in the future. We already know that we need to get better at executing in this scheme. If the team was a finished product and we still ran it at the same level of efficiency then i'd be concerned. We already know that we didn't execute as well as we should, which is why we're even discussing adding better perimeter shooting.

I'm talking about the fact that Curry can be a force inside as we move along. We have to get better at executing and part of that will come from within. We already know that Curry has to get better at passing as do the guards. The chemistry was starting to develop and then we had the injuries. The team was making steady progress and I believe we would've finished strong. If you're trying to tell me that this team didn't blow perfect opportunities which were created by Curry's forceful presence inside, then you really weren't watching the games. This team is gonna have tons of open looks once we get this thing right. Give Curry some time in this system and give this team better balance with perimeter threats and i think we'll see it execute at a higher level.

The other thing is improving the defense, which I also expect to happen. I think this team will be a very good scoring team and if we can tighten up the D and shave 3-4 ppg off of our total then I think we'll be in great shape. Part of that will come if we take better care of the ball. Most of the things i'm speaking of are well within our power to fix.
bobs3304
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5/31/2007  10:40 PM
Posted by Michael6835:


The I hate everything IT does bantor is very old.


At this point, we don't care what he does.


We just hate who he is, the man, the legend, the sexual harasser.



DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
islesfan
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5/31/2007  10:50 PM
Posted by Michael6835:

I actually like to hear the new rhetoric. It's what many of you have been calling for the longest. Just let players expire and gain some cap relief, so now when the coach/president finally jumps on board we have a problem. You people talk like we had much to work with in the 4 years that he has been here. The roster is changed totally, at least now there are players that have some type of value. And we also have a focus and a plan of how we are building the team. I don't get it, now when the managment finally gets on board, we're still talking crap about them. Typical Ny fanbase.

most of the NY players are in their mid 20s and the truth is that if we continue to make progress each year along with a goal of getting under the cap, then there is no reason to doubt that we could sign a big name FA.
We added 10 games on to our win total from last season, maybe next season we add another 10 and make the 8th seed in the playoffs. Maybe the year after we add another 5-10 more wins to be close to a 50 win team. When you take a look back the games we lost this year, it's not hard to see that with determination that this team can definately improve to at least be a lock for a playoff appearance in the next few years.

The I hate everything IT does bantor is very old. You can not honestly argue with his plan to look for cap relief. Or what about him signing the Morris kid, basically getting a free 1st round pick. He is improving as a GM or maybe its grunwald ? Who cares, they are all connected anyways.

You might have a point if this weren't Isiah's 10th different plan. Isiah says and does whatever he thinks will buy him more time. What happened to Isiah ridiculing the salary cap, saying that nobody comes to watch the cap? My guess is that it's where Isiah's contempt for building with draft picks went.

Who's to say that this is actually the plan and that's its going to be implemented completely, unlike all of Isiah's other plans that lasted until he found a new one? And why would anybody have faith in Isiah being able to execute this plan with any kind of competency when we all know what his record is with free agents?

Like you said, it's rhetoric and that's all it is. Dolan closed his checkbook after Isiah wasted hundreds of millions of dollars. Now Isiah has to sing a different tune and talk about how things are exactly where he wanted them to be and now the salary cap matters.

BTW, I think it's hysterical how easy you seem to think it is to keep adding 10 more wins to your win total year after year. Just wondering but are you taking into account Marbury causing HUGE problems when Isiah tells him that they aren't going to extend his contract?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/31/2007  10:58 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

He's not ignoring the fact that Curry showed so much promise as the focal point of the offense.

         05/06    06/07
ppg      95.6     97.5
fg%      45.5     45.7
fga      75.7     77.5
3fg%     36.2     34.6
3fga     10.8     16.7
ft%      72.6     71.5
fta      31.6     29.2

DJ part of the reason those numbers are close had to do with the way we finished the year. This team was scoring much better before the injuries and the ending numbers were down from what they should've been. My comment had to do with predicting what this team can be down the line as we continue to develop Curry and this team in this system.

I think that what get's overlooked is that we're still trying to refine this team in this system. Last year was the dress rehearsal for what this team wants to do in the future. We already know that we need to get better at executing in this scheme. If the team was a finished product and we still ran it at the same level of efficiency then i'd be concerned. We already know that we didn't execute as well as we should, which is why we're even discussing adding better perimeter shooting.

I'm talking about the fact that Curry can be a force inside as we move along. We have to get better at executing and part of that will come from within. We already know that Curry has to get better at passing as do the guards. The chemistry was starting to develop and then we had the injuries. The team was making steady progress and I believe we would've finished strong. If you're trying to tell me that this team didn't blow perfect opportunities which were created by Curry's forceful presence inside, then you really weren't watching the games. This team is gonna have tons of open looks once we get this thing right. Give Curry some time in this system and give this team better balance with perimeter threats and i think we'll see it execute at a higher level.

The other thing is improving the defense, which I also expect to happen. I think this team will be a very good scoring team and if we can tighten up the D and shave 3-4 ppg off of our total then I think we'll be in great shape. Part of that will come if we take better care of the ball. Most of the things i'm speaking of are well within our power to fix.

You're right. This has the makings of the perfect team.

I think if we can improve all our weaknesses (which I expect to happen), nobody stumbles like Frye did this year, everybody learns and starts to play defense the way they're capable of and are lucky enough to have the fewest injuries ever, this group can be the perfect team by being the highest scoring and giving up the fewest points in the entire league.

I think we should all expect these things to happen because it's all within our power to fix and we have Isiah leading the way.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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5/31/2007  10:58 PM
i spoke to isiah thomas at a season subscriber q&a before the 2005 nba draft.

we had a 15 min "discussion" about the cap.

he told me point blank that the plan was to never get under the cap and he PREFERRED to be over the cap.

when i brought up a scenario that we could possibly go after a guy like lebron down the road, he laughed it off and said that type of stuff doesn't happen.

now he is talking about getting under the cap and going after that free agent crop.

either i am a better visionary than isiah, or he's just talking crap.

when asked about possibly giving up 2 lotto picks for eddy, he says "i like our player."

then the draft lotto takes place and he says he was jumping up and applauding.

words words words words.

but actions speak louder. the question really is, at what point do wins matter?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-31-2007 11:12 PM]
bobs3304
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5/31/2007  11:10 PM
^ Isiah is a poster boy for Dolan's regime of moronacy.


I don't hate Curry, I see the potential, but why SPECIFICALLY Curry? What was it about him that made Isiah go -- that's the guy I'm willing to give up back to back lottery picks for?


Caz I mean......what about showing patience then, not just now?



Like DJ aka Grant Hill said -- put up or shut up.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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5/31/2007  11:12 PM
Bottom line is I don't trust Isiah, what he says, AND what he does.


I mean, jesus ****in christ, if we had ATLEAST that lotto pick this year we could've used it for JO, or Kobe, or Gasol, or anyone.


Some deadbrain fans won't see it, but he's slowly killing this orginization.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
arkrud
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5/31/2007  11:38 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Bottom line is I don't trust Isiah, what he says, AND what he does.


I mean, jesus ****in christ, if we had ATLEAST that lotto pick this year we could've used it for JO, or Kobe, or Gasol, or anyone.


Some deadbrain fans won't see it, but he's slowly killing this orginization.

The word "slowly" is wrong. IT doing this pretty quick.
Actually this team is half dead and half young. And the dead part will kill the young. Everything which is not growing is duying.
Everybody understand that the only goal IT has is extend himself like GM of the Knicks. And this is normal thing. Guy has great job, geting a bunch of money and attension.
It is not his job to evaluate what he is done and what he can do. And it is not his fault that he is extended. But it is our pain in the bat.
I cannot see any club in NBA looking for his services as GM or coach after his Knicks job will somehow went to the end. He knows this too and he will do anything in his power to hang on as long as possible.







"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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5/31/2007  11:43 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i spoke to isiah thomas at a season subscriber q&a before the 2005 nba draft.

we had a 15 min "discussion" about the cap.

he told me point blank that the plan was to never get under the cap and he PREFERRED to be over the cap.

when i brought up a scenario that we could possibly go after a guy like lebron down the road, he laughed it off and said that type of stuff doesn't happen.

now he is talking about getting under the cap and going after that free agent crop.

either i am a better visionary than isiah, or he's just talking crap.

when asked about possibly giving up 2 lotto picks for eddy, he says "i like our player."

then the draft lotto takes place and he says he was jumping up and applauding.

words words words words.

but actions speak louder. the question really is, at what point do wins matter?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-31-2007 11:12 PM]

Wins matter, but before you start worrying about that, you have to at least begin the process of putting together the team you think you can win with. We're still in that process. We have some good young players and it's not unreasonable to expect a little growth from them. Even If Isiah doesn't make a deal to add a vet I think this team will be in good shape for the future. Provided he drafts well and we continue the development process. I believe the chemistry will be better in year 2 and that the team will get off to a better start than this year. None of these claims are outrageous or unrealistic.
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