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Marbury isn't even top 10 at his position anymore
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Solace
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5/29/2007  12:21 PM
"Save him for the playoffs" Great advice for a team that doesn't make the playoffs.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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EnySpree
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5/29/2007  12:31 PM
Marbury is not a 2 guard. Marbs is a point guard. Marbs never had the uncanny ability to make that special pass but he always had 8 assists. Marbs also never had to run an offense for anyone but himself since he was 5 years old.

Dude should have stayed with KG. He would have grown better having to dump it to kg for his career. Since then marbs never had to dump it to anyone. Marbs was always the teams best option. Marbs was always the focal point of every offense he has been in since KG.

Guys can talk about that pheonix team he had with amare and Marion, etc but amare was definately not playing anywhere near the way he is today. He totally went wild in year 2 and beyond. Joe Johnson was a Boston castaway when he first got to pheonix. I can go on.

I hate these conversations cuz I just can't understand why people hate on marbs so much.

If anything a guy like channing is in much need of a roasting. If channing made an improvement off his rookie year the way we all assumed he would the knicks would be in the playoffs. Marbs is not the reason for the knicks woes.

Why don't people just come out and say that you hate marbury as a man and can't stand that he is on the same earth that you are on.

Marbs is old now. He probably has 2 years left of being a starter and another 3-4 years of him being the savy vet. The knicks are not going to retire his jersey.

80point guards better than marbs? That's freakin overboard.
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highfivesucka
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5/29/2007  12:35 PM
mike bibby should be #9 imo.
^precocious neophyte.
bigpimpin
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5/29/2007  12:44 PM
Of course Marbury isn't a Top 10 player at his position.

Any more startling revelations?
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
PresIke
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5/29/2007  12:46 PM
Posted by MS:

Lets not make the knicks supporting cast out to be that weak......

Curry is supposed to be this great player, and on offense he is efficient as is david lee, so you have two starting positions that are as efficient as any in the league, look it up before you say anything.

Q is a pretty good three not, great, and everyone around here thinks crawford is pretty darn good, so lets not act like he the cast is awful....its not wonderful by any means....

But if you put the top 7 on this list on the knicks are we a playoff team? I would say there is a pretty good chance.

1. Nash-----YES
2. Kidd-----YES
3. Deron----YES
4. Paul-----YES
5. Billups--YES
6. Davis----Most likely always get his teams there
7. Parker---Yes
8. Miller---Sixers played .500 with who on their team other than Iggy when he got there
9. Ford/Hinrich/Felton
-Ford gets everyone involved, he can't shoot but you can bet everyone is getting easy shots, hinrich is a defensive upgrade, Felton no

If you don't think Deron is better than Steph your on ****ing drugs he the best player on the floor in this series and is outplaying Duncan, and has dominated in the playoffs. When did Steph ever do that....Mention Okur and AK47 as great supporting players in the playoffs give me a break....

Deron vs. Duncan
29.5pts 9.0ass 4.4rbs 1.6stls 54%fg 47%3fg
22.0pts 3.3ass 10.3rbs 3.5blks 59%

Playoffs
AK47 9.4pts 5.3rbs 2.6ass 2.4blks
Okur 12.pts 8.1tbs 1.0blks 38% 32%3fg
Fish 10pts 2.7ass 1.7rbs 41%fg

So now for the sake of convenience for your argument Curry is a "great" player? I thought most here thought he wasn't? If you are someone who does not think Curry is a "great" player then to try and use criteria you disagree with makes no sense and defeats your argument by default. Your argument holds little water anyway if you agree with me (which is what you appear to be conceding) that thoe other players play with top talent, because even Curry's biggest fans know he isn't on the level of the guys listed, and if so one is kidding themself, although I've never seen anyone here tout him as someone on the level of Duncan, Amare or the way Boozer player this playoffs.

I already conceded that the top 7 players you listed are probably better, but I'm not so sure guys like Parker make the Knicks a playoff team, because I don't think he creates as well as Marbury, and Baron Davis was hated on until this season for the past few years as inury prone and overhyped. Now he makes the playoffs and has a run and he's en vogue again. Shows you how quick takes for those who dislike Marbury for seemingly personal reasons (hence the lengths some fans go to discrediting him with posts about who is a "true" humanitarian/philanthropist, name calling, photos of him scowling or with a towel over his head, etc.) to dismiss anything he does positive as some kind of aberration.

Also, please refrain from insults with the you must be on drugs comment. If you can win an argument then you shoudn't need to resort to personal insults, especially when they don't support anything I wrote. I never said Deron wasn't better than Steph, check my post. In fact, I do think he is. As for Andre Miller as better than Steph, sure if you want to buy that go ahead, but the Sixers were crap until Iggy started stepping up as a scorer. Miller makes teams better but he is not a go-to guy, which I have to bring up since you used that as criteria for saying those players are better than Marbury. As for Felton if he can't take the Knicks to the playoffs why in the world would he be considered better than Steph? Because he has upside? That doesn't make him better now, which is what we are discussing. And TJ Ford has Bosh, who is a polished superstar. Curry for all of his talent, is not on that level yet. Ford didn't exactly make the Bucks a winning team, but put him with Bosh and suddenly he's the man.

This is getting at the real point, which is that it's a tired, one-liner, sports talk radio cliche that one PG is the only reason that bad teams turn into great squads. Certianly one player in the NBA can have a significant impact more so than other sports, but it has to be the right fit. It takes an entire team that works well together to win. Baron Davis was not doing jack for GS until they made deals to add players and a system that fit his game. Billups plays with a sick team that plays amazing defense and a great team game. Ford was not even remotely close to the top pgs until he went to play with a rising Bosh. Is this the way we would describe the Knicks over the past few years? I think last season was a step in that direction but it was more learning about themselves than anything, especially early in the season, so it will be interesting to see what happens next year, and over the next few as we have more players with upside than we have had in ages. Sure, other teams do as well, but that's how it goes, and we didn't start this approach until the last year or so.

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-29-2007 12:48 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
bigpimpin
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5/29/2007  12:48 PM
and Baron Davis was hated on until this season for the past few years as inury prone and overhyped.

You are trying to point a point to a bunch of fickle basketball fans.

Good luck.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Elite
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5/29/2007  12:55 PM
You could put marbury anywhere from 8-10. This is silly.. Hinrich/Ford/Felton are no way better than Stephon.. Miller MAYBE but only maybe
Bippity10
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5/29/2007  12:59 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:
and Baron Davis was hated on until this season for the past few years as inury prone and overhyped.

You are trying to point a point to a bunch of fickle basketball fans.

Good luck.

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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5/29/2007  12:59 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:
and Baron Davis was hated on until this season for the past few years as inury prone and overhyped.

You are trying to point a point to a bunch of fickle basketball fans.

Good luck.

I just hope that people will like me
Nalod
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5/29/2007  1:00 PM

Acting like a superstar off the court when your not even the man on the court is not cool anymore.

Thats why I don't buy his act.

His chemistry has been toxic to any team he plays on.

H20 really did not accomplish much more in his career and was paid superstar money. But he was not a divider amung men was was a class act on the court and a good team mate.

And he did not act like a superstar off the court either in his career.

Step was the one that put it out there, made the quotes and had the tough persona. NO, I didn't really like him in college, or when he was not on the knicks. I respect his talent and will continue to root for his success in a knick uniform.

I am still waiting for him to endear me to him.

ANd maybe that is bandwagoning to a certain degree. But what reason has he given me to like him?





Bippity10
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5/29/2007  1:01 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:
and Baron Davis was hated on until this season for the past few years as inury prone and overhyped.

You are trying to point a point to a bunch of fickle basketball fans.

Good luck.

If Marbs leads the team back to the playoffs i'm sure that fans will give him credit. But remember sports is a results driven business. You don't get credit for greatness when you lead your team to 23 and 33 wins. It's not being fickle, it's calling it the way you see it. Baron got credit when he got results. All Knicks players will get credit when they stop making excuses and start delivering results. That's sports.

I just hope that people will like me
MS
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5/29/2007  1:07 PM
And look at Baron Davis playoff appearances vs steph. Baron nearly got the hornets to the eastern conference finals by himself one year and made them dangerous every year....Marbury has zero credentials.....
JohnWallace44
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5/29/2007  1:17 PM
He's going to end up playing the off guard like Fisher does with Utah. If Collins gets better, that would not be a bad combo.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
islesfan
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5/29/2007  1:22 PM
If this team isn't going to be good enough to contend for the remainder of Marbury's contract and we're supposed to be waiting for his contract to expire and salary cap space to reappear, what difference does it make how good Marbury is?

The Knicks gave away another 2 potential lottery picks for no apparent reason in the Marbury trade. But that was the plan since Isiah got here. Give away assets and run around in circles.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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5/29/2007  1:22 PM
Personally I liked the way Marbs played last year. If he played this way for his entire career he would be one of my favorite players. It's a shame it took him so long to figure out that his coaches were on his side and that it was foolish to rebel against them. But the past is the past. This year he was very solid. I don't care how you want to rate him, he did a good job last year.

That being said, 23 and 33 wins says a lot. A guy cannot be considered great until he can lead his team to overachieve. Marbs has never done this, so he should not get credit for doing so.
I just hope that people will like me
EnySpree
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5/29/2007  1:25 PM
Marbury almost single handedly beat the spurs in the playoffs by himself back when he was in pheonix. He embarrassed tony Parker that series. That's his shining moment I guess.

I hope the knicks rise up next season and make some noise as a legit playoff team. Instead of being a part of the success marbs will probably get blamed for the knicks not winning the whole thing.
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Bippity10
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5/29/2007  1:34 PM
I disagree. I think Marbs was getting plenty of props a couple years ago. He didn't start getting criticism in NY until he started fighting with teammates and coaches and the team began losing games. Now it's going to take time for him to build back any kind of trust from the fans. That's life my friend.
I just hope that people will like me
franco12
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5/29/2007  1:49 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by nixluva:

As usual this is all PURE CRAP!!! You guys are just freakin amazing. You just watched the guy play his ass off on bad wheels and teams STILL couldn't stop him. He's not done yet and like EnySpree said, he's been purposely holding back his own game to try and fit more into the team concept. Besides why is it right to kick dirt on him at this time? It's not really about him anymore. We're not looking for him to dominate games like he used to. We only need him to provide scoring punch when it's needed and he eventually found the right balance and was doing that this year. That is before the injuries.

What some of you aren't realizing is that If this team made it to the playoffs and we needed an explosion from Steph he would be able to provide that. Next season he'll likely be able to get more rest now that we have Mardy coming along. Then we can save him for the playoffs. It's a good situation having Steph and his considerable talent at this point. He can last a lot longer if we don't have to wear him out and we won't playing him the way we did most of this year. Steph isn't a problem for this team, he can help us when we need that higher level in a playoff situation.

We must have been watching different games because Marbury struggled to get into the lane like he has in the past.

And this is a load of garbage saying Marbury is sacrificing his game for the betterment of the team- all the other guys listed do that- and they still get their points, but they also get assists, steals, make an impact by being a positive player.

Look- Marbury played great team ball this year.

But- bottom line is this- his production and value on the court is grossly mismatched to his salary.

And he is still costing us a draft pick that will be unprotected in 2010.

I'm not sure his value is ever going to be higher around the league and if you could trade him for a decent package, I think you do it.

He isn't getting younger, faster and his shot from outside isn't getting better.

He struggled to get in the lane? When? Maybe when he was injured, which Steph was dealing with a lot last year. And how do you know that he didn't sacrifice his game at all? I think it's pretty obvious that he has since Brown came, but felt better with it under Isiah as he convinced him that we needed to go through Curry. Anyway, you act like Marbury didn't score at all last year, but that was earlier in the season when the team was struggling to find it's identity with Curry as the main guy. That may be a reason the team struggled early on because Steph only scored over 20 points once in the first month and a half, but as the season went on he had far more impact as a scorer, including 8 games where he scored over 30 points and 3 of those over 40 points. He also had stretches of 6 out of 7 games in a row scoring over 20 in January (the teams record was 4-3) and over 20 in 8 out of 9 games, or 9 out of 11 during one stretch (where the Knicks went 5-4 and 6-5) where he had 3 games in a row over 30 points one of which was over 40.

This is the sign of a guy who can't get in the lane or score? Sure, if you want to ignore facts and believe that he's done, then by all means, fire away.

Nash sacrifices his game every night and ends up with 20 & 10. How does that happen?
MS
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5/29/2007  2:38 PM
Nash also gets paid 11 million to Marbury's 20 million.....

I love Nash getting dumped on for not taking over in the playoffs......

He misses game 1's final seconds and is without their second best player and key bench player in a two point home loss. T

21.3pts 12.7ass 3.7rbs 48%fg 52%3fga in that series

Marburys Claim to Fame vs. Spurs

Game 1 26pts 6ass 2rbs 53min 9-28
Game 2 32pts 5ass 10rb 13-27
Game 3 25pts 7ass 1rb 12-26
Game 4 18pts 7ass 3rbs 7-18
Game 5 13pts 7ass 1rbs 5-18
Game 6 18pts 2ass 7rbs 5-19

Marbury 22pts 5.6ass 4rbs 38% shooting

So other than the Starbury 1, which he is making twice as much off of and pretending its all about the kids, admirable still, smart business no question, and a talk show that a 7 year year old could host better what is all the fuss about, and why does every get so upset when we point to the obvios.

PresIke
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5/29/2007  3:02 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by nixluva:

As usual this is all PURE CRAP!!! You guys are just freakin amazing. You just watched the guy play his ass off on bad wheels and teams STILL couldn't stop him. He's not done yet and like EnySpree said, he's been purposely holding back his own game to try and fit more into the team concept. Besides why is it right to kick dirt on him at this time? It's not really about him anymore. We're not looking for him to dominate games like he used to. We only need him to provide scoring punch when it's needed and he eventually found the right balance and was doing that this year. That is before the injuries.

What some of you aren't realizing is that If this team made it to the playoffs and we needed an explosion from Steph he would be able to provide that. Next season he'll likely be able to get more rest now that we have Mardy coming along. Then we can save him for the playoffs. It's a good situation having Steph and his considerable talent at this point. He can last a lot longer if we don't have to wear him out and we won't playing him the way we did most of this year. Steph isn't a problem for this team, he can help us when we need that higher level in a playoff situation.

We must have been watching different games because Marbury struggled to get into the lane like he has in the past.

And this is a load of garbage saying Marbury is sacrificing his game for the betterment of the team- all the other guys listed do that- and they still get their points, but they also get assists, steals, make an impact by being a positive player.

Look- Marbury played great team ball this year.

But- bottom line is this- his production and value on the court is grossly mismatched to his salary.

And he is still costing us a draft pick that will be unprotected in 2010.

I'm not sure his value is ever going to be higher around the league and if you could trade him for a decent package, I think you do it.

He isn't getting younger, faster and his shot from outside isn't getting better.

He struggled to get in the lane? When? Maybe when he was injured, which Steph was dealing with a lot last year. And how do you know that he didn't sacrifice his game at all? I think it's pretty obvious that he has since Brown came, but felt better with it under Isiah as he convinced him that we needed to go through Curry. Anyway, you act like Marbury didn't score at all last year, but that was earlier in the season when the team was struggling to find it's identity with Curry as the main guy. That may be a reason the team struggled early on because Steph only scored over 20 points once in the first month and a half, but as the season went on he had far more impact as a scorer, including 8 games where he scored over 30 points and 3 of those over 40 points. He also had stretches of 6 out of 7 games in a row scoring over 20 in January (the teams record was 4-3) and over 20 in 8 out of 9 games, or 9 out of 11 during one stretch (where the Knicks went 5-4 and 6-5) where he had 3 games in a row over 30 points one of which was over 40.

This is the sign of a guy who can't get in the lane or score? Sure, if you want to ignore facts and believe that he's done, then by all means, fire away.

Nash sacrifices his game every night and ends up with 20 & 10. How does that happen?

Apparently you missed what I said about Marbury adapting over the last 2 seasons. Re-read my explanation about that then compare that to Nash playing like that with top players almost his entire NBA career where he was not meant to be the top gun/scorer (Nowitzki, Amare)...it answers your question.

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-29-2007 3:03 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-29-2007 3:03 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
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Marbury isn't even top 10 at his position anymore
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