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west unhappy with lottery system
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islesfan
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5/23/2007  12:33 PM
Regardless of how you do it, there will always be tanking involved. Because of that I think you need the lottery to keep teams from knowing with absolute certainty that they will benefit from tanking.

Having said that, I think the lottery needs to be weighted a little more heavily towards the teams with the worst records. The worst team having a 25% chance at the first pick and less than 50% for a top 3 pick isn't good enough.

First, only the top 2 picks should be decided by lottery with the worst team guaranteed no worse than the 3rd pick. Secondly, they should limit the lottery to the worst 10 teams, with the worst team having no worse than a 40% chance at the top pick and a 60% chance at the second. The other 4 teams are usually teams that finish close to the playoffs and shouldn't be in position to add the #1 pick.
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TrueBlue
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5/23/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by djsunyc:

why is the nba the only league to decide it's draft by a lottery system?

why is the fear of tanking not as big an issue in football, hockey, and baseball?

it's a bad system.


I will say this, the lottery system is the best thing stern and the NBA did. In football, having the #1 pick is not as big as having multiple picks, you need more quality players to fill so many positions. The NFL draft is always deep, and a lot of the NFL's best players in history were not top picks. Brady, Farve, Elway, Marino, Rice, were not top pick and some not even first day selections(Brady)

In basketball, it is generally the rule that the lottery players are the best picks and then there is a huge fall off. So in basketball teams will shamelessly tank in order to get a pick, they won't play out the season, they will sit their best players, to me it lacks integrity. I like the system, anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, weither it be in basketball or in real life, in order to better their position is a loser. Portland deserves it, they got their act together, made good picks, move out the losers(telfair, and soon to be miles) and started bringing in good guys. Roy and Aldridge.. the celtics and grizzlies got what they deserved...

simple rule - teams can not have back to back top 3 picks.

so if they get the #1 pick this season, the HIGHEST they can pick the following season will be (pick an arbitrary draft slot).


yea, but does that really matter when that one year, lebron is comming out, and the next year, Kwame brown is the top pick? who would care at that point. I think the system is fine, considering the way the league is set up now... It didn't have to be this way tho..


Bingo dj there are so many ways to modify this sytem
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djsunyc
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5/23/2007  12:40 PM
here are the past #1 winners and the slot they were before winning the lottery.

2007 - portland (#6)
2006 - toronto (#5)
2005 - milwaukee (#6)
2004 - orlando (#1)
2003 - cleveland (#1 tied)
2002 - houston (#5)
2001 - washington (#3)
2000 - nets (#7)
1999 - bulls (#3)
1998 - clippers (#3)
1997 - spurs (#3)
1996 - philadelphia (#2)
1995 - golden state (#5)
1994 - milwaukee (tied #2)
1993 - orlando (#11)
1992 - orlando (#2)
1991 - charlotte (#3)
1990 - nets (#1)
OldFan
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5/23/2007  1:39 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

why is the nba the only league to decide it's draft by a lottery system?

why is the fear of tanking not as big an issue in football, hockey, and baseball?

it's a bad system.

I'm mixed on the lottery. But I can see why the fear of tanking is greater in the NBA then other sports. In baseball the impact of a good draft won't be felt for years - if at all. The players drafted this year won't even play in the MLB for years. In football with a 40 man roster and 22 players on the field one player has less of an impact.
martin
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5/23/2007  2:20 PM
one reason to KEEP the lottery is days like this.... it's a distraction from the crappy playoffs and keeps folks talking about the upcoming draft.
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TrueBlue
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5/23/2007  2:22 PM
Posted by martin:

one reason to KEEP the lottery is days like this.... it's a distraction from the crappy playoffs and keeps folks talking about the upcoming draft.

Yes Sir aren't the playoffs just ATROCIOUS?
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djsunyc
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5/23/2007  3:43 PM
here's a question - how can you go by records when teams in different conferences play different schedules?

here's a suggestion:

hold one big lottery to see who gets the #1 pick.
whichever conference the team belongs to, the 2nd pick is then a lottery for the other conference.
then picks 3-14 alternate by record by conference.

so west picks, then east, then west, then east, etc.
bigpimpin
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5/23/2007  3:51 PM
Not fair for who?
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
arkrud
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5/23/2007  3:52 PM
To keep teams from tanking send worst teams in the East and in the west to NBDL.
WOW - this will be exiting end of regular games...
Then no lottary required... LOL
Some morans will be fired on yearly basys. Nice

[Edited by - arkrud on 05-23-2007 3:53 PM]
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highfivesucka
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5/23/2007  4:00 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Regardless of how you do it, there will always be tanking involved. Because of that I think you need the lottery to keep teams from knowing with absolute certainty that they will benefit from tanking.

Having said that, I think the lottery needs to be weighted a little more heavily towards the teams with the worst records. The worst team having a 25% chance at the first pick and less than 50% for a top 3 pick isn't good enough.

First, only the top 2 picks should be decided by lottery with the worst team guaranteed no worse than the 3rd pick. Secondly, they should limit the lottery to the worst 10 teams, with the worst team having no worse than a 40% chance at the top pick and a 60% chance at the second. The other 4 teams are usually teams that finish close to the playoffs and shouldn't be in position to add the #1 pick.

I think the owners will look at something along the lines of your first proposal, about teams like Memphis and Boston not being able to slide as far as they did, it was kind of silly that they got screwed like that.
^precocious neophyte.
Nalod
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5/23/2007  4:02 PM
Lotto was created for the pending entry of Patrick Ewing.

Lotto does make sure if you suck you still get a good enough pick to help you.

Its not perfect, but perhaps they can tinker with the odds better to help worse teams.

The year Pitino tanked, and this year Memphis likley has the highest amount of regret.

I think Mamphis ownership lost a bunch of scratch not having Oden rostered to sell the team.

Meanwhile, Portland is stacking up young talent!

System is fine the way it is.
EnySpree
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5/23/2007  4:10 PM
Tkf - "anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, weither it be in basketball or in real life, in order to better their position is a loser." - tkf

That's kinda like tanking your life.

Wow. Guess who's not gonna be posting for a while.
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bigpimpin
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5/23/2007  4:13 PM
I know a couple of people who are tanking their lives. But out of respect, I won't name any names.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Vmart
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5/23/2007  9:35 PM
The lottery system is in place because the NBA is full of teams capable of doing a tank job. They have have done this in the past and some have made no bones about what their intentions are see: Cleveland on LeBron. I for one want to continue a lottery do I think it could be better yes what I would like to see is every team get a chance at the Number one pick even if it might be the slimmest chance of landing for the top team but they should get that chance. I think what this will do is create player movement in the league which might be a good thing.
sebstar
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5/23/2007  11:19 PM
Jerry West is really pushing it by saying this complaint isnt motivated by sour grapes. I've never heard this compliant before from him. Now after 22 years he decides its a problem?!?

Just add more weight to the bottom three teams in terms of record, I guess. Doesnt really matter. Sea and Portland were lucky as hell to beat the odds and squeeze into the top slots. Memph and Boston were like 4 to 5 times more likely to get the pick or something like that. It was just dumb luck. The system is fine from where I sit.
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Pharzeone
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5/23/2007  11:51 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Jerry West is really pushing it by saying this complaint isnt motivated by sour grapes. I've never heard this compliant before from him. Now after 22 years he decides its a problem?!?

Just add more weight to the bottom three teams in terms of record, I guess. Doesnt really matter. Sea and Portland were lucky as hell to beat the odds and squeeze into the top slots. Memph and Boston were like 4 to 5 times more likely to get the pick or something like that. It was just dumb luck. The system is fine from where I sit.



Maybe Stern can work out a way that every NBA can share Oden and Durant for periods of time. Maybe weeks or days that is yet to be determine. Or better yet, have a weekly lottery for their services. The NBA can turn it into a reality series. Have Oden and Durant share a manison. We can follow them as they experience life in the NBA as they wait for the call that will send them on their next adventure. It works out for everyone well maybe not the Blazers and Sonics...

It's not sour grapes. It is more like 'damn it I didn't get Oden or Durant so the system sucks.' It is chaos; it's unfair and unjust. No wait, sorry it's just sour grapes. Damn it.
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sebstar
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5/24/2007  1:17 AM
Maybe Stern can work out a way that every NBA can share Oden and Durant for periods of time. Maybe weeks or days that is yet to be determine. Or better yet, have a weekly lottery for their services. The NBA can turn it into a reality series. Have Oden and Durant share a manison. We can follow them as they experience life in the NBA as they wait for the call that will send them on their next adventure. It works out for everyone well maybe not the Blazers and Sonics...

It's not sour grapes. It is more like 'damn it I didn't get Oden or Durant so the system sucks.' It is chaos; it's unfair and unjust. No wait, sorry it's just sour grapes. Damn it.

Haha. Damn. Maybe thats the solution to this "crisis", cut those players up into pieces so that everybody can have them.

If Boston gets the pick, assuming the lottery was based purely on record, then there would be a gang of cats whining about their tank job and how thats unfair. If they lose the slot because of a mathematical improbability, then somehow thats a problem, and the system needs fixing. No matter the system, somebody is going to cry and be disappointed. Heh, if someone is going to be disappointed it might as well be a chowda head, j/k.

What gets me is the fact Jerry West feels the need to insult our intelligence. Why not just be a man and give your honest thoughts: "damn, system sucks because we didnt get Oden, why the hell do you think we tanked a whole season and drove away half our fanbase, by cheating them out of their money." Just be honest and reveal your true motivations, rather than try to pass yourself off as a selfless, grandfather type that is concerned about the 'welfare of the league'.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Ira
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5/24/2007  7:14 AM
I think the present system is about right. The worst teams have the best chance, but there's no guarantee. The Celtics tanked and got burnt. That made me very happy.
joec32033
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5/24/2007  7:45 AM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by K22:

Didn't the lottery get instituted this way b/c of the Spurs basically cheating to get Tim Duncan?

The lottery was instituted long before Duncan.

The first Lottery was in 85. The Lottery was instituted in that year because Ewing was so good, the NBA decided to give all the teams that weren't good a shot at him.
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djsunyc
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5/24/2007  9:24 AM
on a side note - what the league really needs is contraction. close up shop on 4 franchises: new orleans, charlotte, memphis and seattle. hold a contraction draft and each team's talent level immediately goes up.
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