Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Yes and No. Kobe was no saint. Phil wrote a book that told all. He brought up that Shaq was an Asss and lazy but he wanted Kobe traded and there's the difference. Who's more repsected around the league Shaq or Kobe? Even if Phil was off in left field with that request, Kobe drove people to want to feel that way Tex Winters included. Another thing, how come they haven't attracted any FA with the MLE since Shaq's exodus? Every great player or at least most of them are jerks, even to their teammates. Read up on some things Steve Kerr had to say about how Jordan treated them during their title runs. Magic is another example to look at, he said even though he played great basketball and was viewed by many as the Lakers best player first couple yrs in the league he still felt it was Kareem's team and wouldn't take that away from him until Kareem said so.


Look every player needs help no matter how good they are and Kobe realizes this, along with everyone else. The point I'm making, whatever decisions are made from here on out will require Kobe to change as an individual. We'll see if he does like you said.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-03-2007 11:42 AM]

You raise a good point about Phil's book, which is I probably shouldn't comment on the situation before reading it. All I know is I remember hearing about Shaq steamrolling Kobe with his ego early on and saw the trouble that ensued thereafter as predictable. But that's really as deep as I go in the matter. I've also never been a big fan of Shaq's. Not dissing his peak years, he's a top 5 center of all time, but he never charmed me.

Blue I concur with you on Shaq he was an egomaniac but outside of Kobe from what I've heard, his teammates still loved him. I gave Shaq passes just because he was so funny when he was ragging on his teams then. My favorite quote from him when they lost some game, I forget at the moment he said he's tired playing with a bunch of Rex Chapman Wannabees, LOL Kobe was on the team at the time.

I disliked him when he came into the league so c0cky and all he could do was dunk. When as a rookie he was asked if he got up for games against Ewing he answered to the effect of "it's no different than when I play Bill Wennington". F-ck you, Shaq. I'm not into that kind of c0ckiness. Which is why I didn't like Marbury's "I'm the best" comments and why I hope De La Hoya breaks Mayweather's forever flapping jaw.It's ironic that Ali is one of my favorite sports figures of all time, but maybe it's because I view him retrospectively, and after all his accomplishments. Were I following the sport back in the day I probably would have been more of a Joe Frazier fan.


[Edited by - blueseats on 05-03-2007 1:21 PM]

Oscar doing that to mayweather will make my weekend.... LOL.. that guy talks too damn much! what a got jerk..

Kobe can't wait
Bryant puts pressure on the front office to make something happen in off-season.

By Mike Bresnahan, Times Staff Writer

May 5, 2007


The Lakers rolled uneasily through their final day of exit meetings, as Kobe Bryant reiterated his increasing frustration and General Manger Mitch Kupchak suggested that only one player was considered untouchable for off-season trade talks — the same player prodding upper management to improve the team.

Still simmering after the Lakers' first-round loss to Phoenix, Bryant voiced another degree of dissatisfaction during meetings Friday with Kupchak and Coach Phil Jackson, an unhappiness he later repeated publicly with such firmness that it made his blunt postgame appeal Wednesday ("Do something, and do it now") look like a minor request.

"I just told [Kupchak] this summer's about getting us to an elite level, doing whatever it takes to make it happen," Bryant said. "This is a competitive city. We're used to winning titles, not just winning games and being in the first round. We want to win championships. Now's the time.

"That's one of the things when I re-signed here, they promised they would build a contender and build a contender now. I don't want to have to wait any more than I already have."

The Lakers haven't won a playoff series since beating Minnesota in the 2004 Western Conference finals.

Bryant, who will turn 29 in August, has a no-trade clause in his contract for at least one more season and remains the franchise's cornerstone, which means the Lakers will try to surround him with more talented pieces. He has four years and $88.6 million left on his contract but can terminate his deal after the 2008-09 season and leave two years and $47.8 million on the table, an unlikely event.

Kupchak, asked if every Laker was available in trade talks this off-season, singled out the one obvious selection and left others unmentioned.

"We're going to build the team around Kobe," Kupchak said.

That left 19-year-old center Andrew Bynum and oft-injured but productive forward Lamar Odom on the unprotected list.

It won't be easy to change the look of the Lakers, even though Bryant said his patience was currently "about as short as my 1-year-old daughter."

If the yet-to-be-determined salary cap is placed at $55 million next season, the Lakers would already be $3.4 million over it, meaning the only notable free-agent tool at their disposal would again be the mid-level exception, worth about $30 million over five years and offered to all teams that are over the salary cap. (The Lakers can sign free agent Luke Walton without affecting their cap status.)

In other words, the Lakers can make drastic steps only via trades, which means Kupchak could have a busy off-season.

"We understand there's no magic wand you can wave and make things happen," Kupchak said. "But we're going to be as aggressive as we've always been to get this team back to championship-level basketball."

Kupchak also acknowledged Bryant's frustration.

"I don't think anybody who's been with this organization — the Buss family, myself, Phil — feels any different," Kupchak said. "We feel the exact same way. Being in the first round or losing in the first round is not what we want to accomplish. We feel that we owe and want to provide more to the city than that."

Adding to the tension is the fact that Bryant isn't getting any younger.

"Obviously there's a window," Bryant said. "I feel fine physically. The important thing to me is winning now. It's not waiting, this, that and the other….

"I don't play for anything but a championship. I want to get into the pocket with this city, where we, going into the season, believe that we have a shot at winning this whole thing."

Bryant couldn't predict whether big-name players such as Jermaine O'Neal or Kevin Garnett could be acquired by the Lakers during the off-season.

"I don't know," he said. "I just voiced my opinion. Now it's on them to do their job and go out there and try to make something happen."

Wow so we have to assume Bynum will be available otherwise they have no shot at effectively rebuilding around Kobe. Of course Lamar has to be thrown in to make the salary part work on any potential big trades.

Posted by bitty41:

I blame Shaq in the kobe feud. Early on Shaq gave Kobe a "this is my team sonny" talk and killed any chance of chemistry. They tried all the big brother crap after that but Shaq's ego was insurmountable, and he knows it, that's why his first order of business upon landing in Miami was to make friends with Wade, tell him he's the best player he's ever played with and it's Wade's team.

And this is a problem because? When your a dominating center in this league especially to the degree Shaq was in his prime ITS YOUR TEAM". Kobe get over yourself this isn't some "im okay your okay" where everyone should be accomdating to Kobe's feelings. If Kobe didn't like it play somewhere else remember this was the same guy who after just coming straight out of High School forced a trade because he did not want to play for the Hornets.

It's a problem because it cast the first stone that broke the team up. Shaq put his ego before the team creating a tension that loomed all the while. As you say, if Kobe didn't like it he could go somewhere else. Well, that's how it went down, so that's what's wrong with it. A dynasty broken. How many dynasties would exist if a team only has room for one star?

Shaq and Kobe weren't going to be winning anymore, Shaq wanted a big extension, Phil wanted one too, and Kobe was a free agent. Too much money was required all at the same time and it just wasn't worth it for such a dysfunctional situation.

I agree but I would have hitched my horse to Shaq and Phil. Let Kobe walk and go after someone else. In reality you could replace him with about 10 other guys and they still could have won 1 or 2 more Championships. Whereas Kobe any superstar with a half amount of sense would not want to play with this guy. Just look at his demeanor on the court yelling at teammates sometimes not even acknowledging them and godforbid you miss him on pass. Lets not forget the stunt he pulled during last year' series against the Suns just totally waving the white flag because he was pissed off at this teammates. Real smooth Kobita.

I would not have rode with Shaq. He'd already established himself as a destructive leader. Plus he's aging and I disagree he's a lock for contention at this point in his career.

Keep in mind, the Lakers got Odom by trading Shaq. Shaq wanted an exhorbitant extension but was not in a walk year (he was not a free agent) so if he wanted out, which he did when he knew an extension wasn't forthcoming, he had to be traded, which got value in return. But Kobe was an FA, and he would have simply walked to the other side of the area and played for the Clippers or the Suns, and the Lakers would have gotten nothing in return.

However poorly Kobe and Odom may mesh they still make the playoffs. But Shaq and Smush, with no Kobe or Odom, I don't think make playoffs. Going for old Shaq at 20M per year only to miss the playoffs would have been a collassal mistake. I'm not even sure Phil would have wanted to coach that, though the situation with the bosses daughter certainly muddies the waters.

For all Kobe's faults, I think he's a better leader at whatever his age is than Shaq was. If the Lakers draft someone as talented as Shaq or Kobe, will Kobe's first order of business be to alienate him? If he does then we can compare his leadership to Shaq's

Shaq I think is not the smartest guy nor do I think he's the most mature guy but bottom line is this when he's on your team (maybe not now since he's reaching retirement) it is going to be a serious threat in the playoffs. Whereas Kobita's leadership puts most of the faults on his teammates. Even these latest comments a great leader wouldn't even make these comments public they would just have a sit down with management and go from there but to publicly come out and say that basically your teammates suck where's the leadership in that?

btw

If the Lakers draft someone as talented as Shaq

Yea okay theres about a 1 and billion chances of anyone coming out thats near Shaq's level during his rookie season. No Mr. Cookie monster Andrew Bynum does not count.

Have you considered their chances of keeping Shaq and drafting a kobe and grooming him for Shaq in his limited window of time?

You like Shaq better than Kobe, I don't. That's cool, but for a myriad of reasons the Lakers felt as I do. But whatever trouble you see for the lakers now I think would have been considerably worse had they rode with Shaq and lost Kobe. That blank look on Shaq's face from the bench when he can't create for himself and the team is losing is more than most fans can bear. Imagine seeing that look 45 games a season while Kobe and Elton brand are hosting the conference finals in your arena.



[Edited by - blueseats on 05-05-2007 5:45 PM]

Posted by bitty41:

Kobe unless he traded to another team will never single-handley take a team to the NBA Finals. Whereas Shaq has done it 3 times thank you very much. I think that says it all in terms of how you should go with.

umm...I don't recall the Shaq plus Eddie Jones plus Nick Van Exel teams ever making it to the finals!

umm...I don't recall the Shaq plus Eddie Jones plus Nick Van Exel teams ever making it to the finals!

My point was actually Shaq has taken three seperate organizations to the Finals the Orlando Magic, LA Lakers, and Miami Heat. Name another player in the game right now whose done that?

Phuch Kobe, think the Lakes move him and build around Oh-Dumb, Bynum and pieces? Deng-Gordan-Duhan for Kobe?

Gordan-Filler-Duhan and the Knicks pick?

Keep Kobe away from MSG.