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Bulls' Future Looking Up - Article by Isola
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kam77
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5/1/2007  5:24 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Ben Gordon and then Wallah

You either meant Wallace, or voilà. Either way it makes sense.



[Edited by - kam77 on 05-01-2007 5:16 PM]


No I meant what I meant.


Whats a wallah?


It actually should be Walla(As in Presto) but I'm putting the East Coast accent on it by adding the h.

Then get it right my friend: voilà
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
AUTOADVERT
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  5:26 PM
You can make up your own definition, True, but you are rebuilding when you start trading veteran talent to shed salary and acquire talent via the draft. Bulls starting did that when they traded Pippen in 98. Nine seasons later they have their first playoff series victory.

Bulls won 13 games that season, by the way. Still sold out the United center.

Imagine that, Knick fans.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
TrueBlue
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5/1/2007  5:26 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Ben Gordon and then Wallah

You either meant Wallace, or voilà. Either way it makes sense.



[Edited by - kam77 on 05-01-2007 5:16 PM]


No I meant what I meant.


Whats a wallah?


It actually should be Walla(As in Presto) but I'm putting the East Coast accent on it by adding the h.

Then get it right my friend: voilà


I'm not French
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
kam77
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5/1/2007  5:29 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Ben Gordon and then Wallah

You either meant Wallace, or voilà. Either way it makes sense.



[Edited by - kam77 on 05-01-2007 5:16 PM]


No I meant what I meant.


Whats a wallah?


It actually should be Walla(As in Presto) but I'm putting the East Coast accent on it by adding the h.

Then get it right my friend: voilà


I'm not French

Neither am i. But the word is
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TrueBlue
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5/1/2007  5:31 PM
Posted by RemBee76:

You can make up your own definition, True, but you are rebuilding when you start trading veteran talent to shed salary and acquire talent via the draft. Bulls starting did that when they traded Pippen in 98. Nine seasons later they have their first playoff series victory.

Bulls won 13 games that season, by the way. Still sold out the United center.

Imagine that, Knick fans.


Well you could argue too that the Bulls didn't start rebuilding until they hired a competent GM in Paxson who took over for incompetent Krause in April of 03. Every since then things have fallen into place for them. I guess we need to fire ISAYUGH.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TrueBlue
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5/1/2007  5:34 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by kam77:
Ben Gordon and then Wallah

You either meant Wallace, or voilà. Either way it makes sense.



[Edited by - kam77 on 05-01-2007 5:16 PM]


No I meant what I meant.


Whats a wallah?


It actually should be Walla(As in Presto) but I'm putting the East Coast accent on it by adding the h.

Then get it right my friend: voilà


I'm not French

Neither am i. But the word is

You got me
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  5:44 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

And if you use Allan Houston do we turn around and say the yr prior McKnee injury killed the season success?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-01-2007 4:23 PM]

This is another one of those posts so poorly articulated I hesitate to reply for I could be misunderstanding the point being made here...but I'll give it a shot.

The "McKnee" Injury didn't kill the Knicks, the "McKnee" trade did.

As for Houston...if you are really arguing that having the same 20 ppg Houston who had been carrying the team for the two years prior (Crawford or no Crawford) next to Marbury wouldn't have netted the team better than 37 wins that year, I'll just leave you be.

To quote Woody: I'm due back on planet Earth.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
TrueBlue
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5/1/2007  5:50 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by TrueBlue:

And if you use Allan Houston do we turn around and say the yr prior McKnee injury killed the season success?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-01-2007 4:23 PM]

This is another one of those posts so poorly articulated I hesitate to reply for I could be misunderstanding the point being made here...but I'll give it a shot.

The "McKnee" Injury didn't kill the Knicks, the "McKnee" trade did.

As for Houston...if you are really arguing that having the same 20 ppg Houston who had been carrying the team for the two years prior (Crawford or no Crawford) next to Marbury wouldn't have netted the team better than 37 wins that year, I'll just leave you be.

To quote Woody: I'm due back on planet Earth.


And if a healthy Denver McDyess plays the 02-03 season you don't think the team wins more than 37gms which ups the standard of wins?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  5:57 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
And if a healthy Denver McDyess plays the 02-03 season you don't think the team wins more than 37gms which ups the standard of wins?

How is this even remotely germane to the point? McDyess didn't play the next year either, and played ten the next, so no "standard of wins" was ever set with Antonio on the Knicks.

We did, however, set one with Allan Houston, so comparing a team that played most of the season with him to one that played mostly without their captain and pinning the deficit of wins on Crawford is specious.

You can't get that, sorry. I can't explain it to you any more clearly.


Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
TrueBlue
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5/1/2007  6:26 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by TrueBlue:
And if a healthy Denver McDyess plays the 02-03 season you don't think the team wins more than 37gms which ups the standard of wins?

How is this even remotely germane to the point? McDyess didn't play the next year either, and played ten the next, so no "standard of wins" was ever set with Antonio on the Knicks.

We did, however, set one with Allan Houston, so comparing a team that played most of the season with him to one that played mostly without their captain and pinning the deficit of wins on Crawford is specious.

You can't get that, sorry. I can't explain it to you any more clearly.



Now I love Allan but come on. The guy played on a 30win, 37win, and 39win team from 2001-2004. The team wasn't in all that good of shape in 2003-2004 until Marbury was acquired which led to a flash in the finish. That's the main reason Crawford was acquired in the first place, because Houston wasn't going to be relied upon. You further support my argument in that Crawford isn't capable of filling in someone else shoes to the point it equals W's but his replacements filled in his shoes above and beyond. That's essentially what Crawford proved to be as Houston's replacement as Gordon was to him, a draft pick/young prospect with supposed upside.


And if that's the rule you're going to go by "Trading for talent but can't define or project wins" then let me ask you....... If we trade for K.G. plus filler and give up David Lee, Frye, Francis, Malik and K.G blows out his knee before the season starts and we end up winning 35-38gms missing the playoffs, would the trade have killed the season or K.G. getting injured kill it?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-01-2007 5:42 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  6:38 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
That's the main reason Crawford was acquired in the first place, because Houston wasn't going to be relied upon.

No, Crawford was acquired to back up Houston and Marbury in a three guard rotation. He wasn't brought in to be Houston's replacement, at least not right away. And Marbury-Houston were 5 games better than .500 before Allan went down so please don't try to minimize what that pairing might have accomplished.

I'll take a step back...I am disappointed with Crawford since he got here. His shot-selection and defense are appalling. He only looked good under Larry Brown because everyone else was having such a bad year, and even then he came on at the end of the season when the games didn't matter anyway.

There are things about his game I like...He has no conscience which makes him a great go-to guy at the end of games, he has great chemistry with Curry, and when he is hot he is totally unguardable.

But he is a double-edged sword, and his game needs far more discipline before he can be counted on as part of the core in my mind. I'd rather move him for a contract that ends before 2009.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  6:42 PM
health risks:
layden took a risk on dice's knee for basically the #7 pick (camby was always hurt too).
isiah took a risk and banked on h20 returning.
isiah took a risk on curry's heart.

layden's risk on dice made sense but ultimately failed.
isiah's risk on h20's knee failed.
isiah's risk on curry's heart has been successful so far.
TrueBlue
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5/1/2007  6:49 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by TrueBlue:
That's the main reason Crawford was acquired in the first place, because Houston wasn't going to be relied upon.

No, Crawford was acquired to back up Houston and Marbury in a three guard rotation. He wasn't brought in to be Houston's replacement, at least not right away. And Marbury-Houston were 5 games better than .500 before Allan went down so please don't try to minimize what that pairing might have accomplished.

I'll take a step back...I am disappointed with Crawford since he got here. His shot-selection and defense are appalling. He only looked good under Larry Brown because everyone else was having such a bad year, and even then he came on at the end of the season when the games didn't matter anyway.

There are things about his game I like...He has no conscience which makes him a great go-to guy at the end of games, he has great chemistry with Curry, and when he is hot he is totally unguardable.

But he is a double-edged sword, and his game needs far more discipline before he can be counted on as part of the core in my mind. I'd rather move him for a contract that ends before 2009.


That's a very expensive backup if Houston proved to be healthy. I think ISAYUGH saw the writing on the wall with H2O and took a chance on Crawford. It hasn't worked.


Please answer my ? in the last post I made. I went back and edited it here it is...

[quote]And if that's the rule you're going to go by "Trading for talent but can't define or project wins" then let me ask you....... If we trade for K.G. plus filler and give up David Lee, Frye, Francis, Malik and K.G blows out his knee before the season starts and we end up winning 35-38gms missing the playoffs, would the trade have killed the season or K.G. getting injured kill it?


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-01-2007 6:17 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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5/1/2007  7:38 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by TrueBlue:

That's the main reason Crawford was acquired in the first place, because Houston wasn't going to be relied upon.

No, Crawford was acquired to back up Houston and Marbury in a three guard rotation. He wasn't brought in to be Houston's replacement, at least not right away. And Marbury-Houston were 5 games better than .500 before Allan went down so please don't try to minimize what that pairing might have accomplished.

No, Houston was already breaking down the season before they acquired Crawford. Houston only played 50 games that year. If Isiah was planning on building around Houston he's a even dumber than we thought. Crawford was traded for to replace Houston sooner rather than later.

Why are you trying to maximize what Marbury and Houston accomplished, which was basically nothing?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Anji
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5/1/2007  8:40 PM
This guys TrueBlues logic is like those mouse glue traps.......... don't be a stupid mouse and step in them.

I don't know how you in the same thread try to make it seem like Crawford or Curry made the knicks bad, but in the same thread call Allan houston "not so good" and the team in not so good shape before either of them came. LOL, I don't even know what your purpose is anymore.
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kam77
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5/1/2007  8:42 PM
I can't let this slide:
layden took a risk on dice's knee for basically the #7 pick (camby was always hurt too).

Camby has proven to be much less of a risk, with youth and much more upside. Dyess injuries robbed him of his greatest bball asset, his explosivity. Camby seems fine to me.
isiah took a risk and banked on h20 returning.

Totally a joke statement. Who was it who signed Allan? And which teams after that wanted to come within 50 feet of his contract for ISiah to move?

That was unconscionable of you dj su
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
islesfan
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5/1/2007  8:50 PM
Posted by kam77:
isiah took a risk and banked on h20 returning.

Totally a joke statement. Who was it who signed Allan? And which teams after that wanted to come within 50 feet of his contract for ISiah to move?

That was unconscionable of you dj su

What are you talking about? The premise that all lovers, like yourself, seem to be holding onto is that Isiah looked to win now with Marbury and Houston. Meaning he took a risk and banked on Houston returning.

It's not about moving him, it's about Isiah looking to build around him.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
bigbeast
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5/1/2007  10:16 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

health risks:
layden took a risk on dice's knee for basically the #7 pick (camby was always hurt too).
isiah took a risk and banked on h20 returning.
isiah took a risk on curry's heart.

layden's risk on dice made sense but ultimately failed.
isiah's risk on h20's knee failed.
isiah's risk on curry's heart has been successful so far.

Laydens risk on McDyess made no sense to me. Essentially, he gave up Camby (our only defensive presence, and best rebounder) not to mention the draft pick that could have turned into Caron Butler, NeNe, Wilcox or......Stoudamire, for a player comming off major knee surgery who relied heavily on athletic abitlity, and didn't play the season before.

Horrible trade!

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
bigbeast
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5/1/2007  10:17 PM
Posted by Anji:

This guys TrueBlues logic is like those mouse glue traps.......... don't be a stupid mouse and step in them.

I don't know how you in the same thread try to make it seem like Crawford or Curry made the knicks bad, but in the same thread call Allan houston "not so good" and the team in not so good shape before either of them came. LOL, I don't even know what your purpose is anymore.


You beat me to it......
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  10:27 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by djsunyc:

health risks:
layden took a risk on dice's knee for basically the #7 pick (camby was always hurt too).
isiah took a risk and banked on h20 returning.
isiah took a risk on curry's heart.

layden's risk on dice made sense but ultimately failed.
isiah's risk on h20's knee failed.
isiah's risk on curry's heart has been successful so far.

Laydens risk on McDyess made no sense to me. Essentially, he gave up Camby (our only defensive presence, and best rebounder) not to mention the draft pick that could have turned into Caron Butler, NeNe, Wilcox or......Stoudamire, for a player comming off major knee surgery who relied heavily on athletic abitlity, and didn't play the season before.

Horrible trade!

of course it's a horrible trade but we weren't rebuilding. we had spree + h20. dice puts us in the ECF picture.

did we forget that camby missed on average 30 games a season for us.
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