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Pietrus, make a good signing for once Isiah
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bigbeast
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4/30/2007  4:19 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by djsunyc:

no room for any more 3's on this roster sans trade.he should go to toronto. they needs a SF that can play defense and shoot the 3.

No room for a SF? R U kidding? Q is damaged goods, JJ2 is a situational player who shouldn't play no more than 10 mins if that, and Balk is underdeveloped.

We have quantity at SF but no quality.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-30-2007 11:28 AM]

But what does Pietrus give us that Balkman won't give us in 1-2 years?

It would be a redundant signing, just like Jeffries was.

We need outside shooting- a Matt Carroll type helps more than a Pietrus.

I meant Pietrus is basically an Ariza type anyway.

I'm not endorsing Pietrus, I'm just disputing the notion that we don't need a SF. If we are going with Lee and Curry up front, we need a G Wallace type of SF who can help-defend, rebound a little, block-shots, etc.

Ideal SF's for the front line that we already have in place:

G Wallace (probably ungettable)
AK 47 (possible)
Artest (possible)
Outlaw (young, probably cheap)
Josh Smith (ugettable)
Rahard Lewis (probably not gettable)



"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
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Anji
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4/30/2007  4:43 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

no room for any more 3's on this roster sans trade.

he should go to toronto. they needs a SF that can play defense and shoot the 3.
I agree............. we do not habe the personel to sign a pietrus. His 4 or 5 good plays flys with Gstate(who doesn't think they need him with barns there) and Bosh/Barg/Ford.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
technomaster
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4/30/2007  4:57 PM
Pietrus is an interesting character - killer athletic... but perhaps doesn't have a high bball IQ. He's like Ariza/Balkman w/ a more developed set 3pt shot.

I think Balkman might have more upside than Pietrus. We'll see how Balkman improves (or not) in year 2.
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misterearl
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4/30/2007  5:02 PM
Staten Island homeboy Balkman in his junior year will make people forget Pietrus

and booing him on draft night
once a knick always a knick
codeunknown
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4/30/2007  6:38 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Staten Island homeboy Balkman in his junior year will make people forget Pietrus

and booing him on draft night

If he can make us forget about our Coney Island homeboy, I'll be quite appreciative.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
franco12
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4/30/2007  9:18 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by djsunyc:

no room for any more 3's on this roster sans trade.he should go to toronto. they needs a SF that can play defense and shoot the 3.

No room for a SF? R U kidding? Q is damaged goods, JJ2 is a situational player who shouldn't play no more than 10 mins if that, and Balk is underdeveloped.

We have quantity at SF but no quality.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-30-2007 11:28 AM]

But what does Pietrus give us that Balkman won't give us in 1-2 years?

It would be a redundant signing, just like Jeffries was.

We need outside shooting- a Matt Carroll type helps more than a Pietrus.

I meant Pietrus is basically an Ariza type anyway.

I'm not endorsing Pietrus, I'm just disputing the notion that we don't need a SF. If we are going with Lee and Curry up front, we need a G Wallace type of SF who can help-defend, rebound a little, block-shots, etc.

Ideal SF's for the front line that we already have in place:

G Wallace (probably ungettable)
AK 47 (possible)
Artest (possible)
Outlaw (young, probably cheap)
Josh Smith (ugettable)
Rahard Lewis (probably not gettable)

Wait- you just described Balkman and Jeffries?!

Why spend money to get something we already have?
bigbeast
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4/30/2007  10:18 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by djsunyc:

no room for any more 3's on this roster sans trade.he should go to toronto. they needs a SF that can play defense and shoot the 3.

No room for a SF? R U kidding? Q is damaged goods, JJ2 is a situational player who shouldn't play no more than 10 mins if that, and Balk is underdeveloped.

We have quantity at SF but no quality.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-30-2007 11:28 AM]

But what does Pietrus give us that Balkman won't give us in 1-2 years?

It would be a redundant signing, just like Jeffries was.

We need outside shooting- a Matt Carroll type helps more than a Pietrus.

I meant Pietrus is basically an Ariza type anyway.

I'm not endorsing Pietrus, I'm just disputing the notion that we don't need a SF. If we are going with Lee and Curry up front, we need a G Wallace type of SF who can help-defend, rebound a little, block-shots, etc.

Ideal SF's for the front line that we already have in place:

G Wallace (probably ungettable)
AK 47 (possible)
Artest (possible)
Outlaw (young, probably cheap)
Josh Smith (ugettable)
Rahard Lewis (probably not gettable)

Wait- you just described Balkman and Jeffries?!

Why spend money to get something we already have?


Next time, dont just quote a piece of my statement because its convenient to your argument. If you noticed, I mentioned ideal SF's (Artest, G Wallace, AK47, Josh etc.) that help defend, Shot-block, rebound and even score at a much higher level than Balk and JJ2. You can't be serious if you feel JJ2 and Balk on their level.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
franco12
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5/1/2007  9:12 AM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by djsunyc:

no room for any more 3's on this roster sans trade.he should go to toronto. they needs a SF that can play defense and shoot the 3.

No room for a SF? R U kidding? Q is damaged goods, JJ2 is a situational player who shouldn't play no more than 10 mins if that, and Balk is underdeveloped.

We have quantity at SF but no quality.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-30-2007 11:28 AM]

But what does Pietrus give us that Balkman won't give us in 1-2 years?

It would be a redundant signing, just like Jeffries was.

We need outside shooting- a Matt Carroll type helps more than a Pietrus.

I meant Pietrus is basically an Ariza type anyway.

I'm not endorsing Pietrus, I'm just disputing the notion that we don't need a SF. If we are going with Lee and Curry up front, we need a G Wallace type of SF who can help-defend, rebound a little, block-shots, etc.

Ideal SF's for the front line that we already have in place:

G Wallace (probably ungettable)
AK 47 (possible)
Artest (possible)
Outlaw (young, probably cheap)
Josh Smith (ugettable)
Rahard Lewis (probably not gettable)

Wait- you just described Balkman and Jeffries?!

Why spend money to get something we already have?


Next time, dont just quote a piece of my statement because its convenient to your argument. If you noticed, I mentioned ideal SF's (Artest, G Wallace, AK47, Josh etc.) that help defend, Shot-block, rebound and even score at a much higher level than Balk and JJ2. You can't be serious if you feel JJ2 and Balk on their level.


I quoted your entire post- I highlight the part you made- and nowhere did you mention scoring:
If we are going with Lee and Curry up front, we need a G Wallace type of SF who can help-defend, rebound a little, block-shots, etc.

The reason Jeffries got the full MLE was he was supposed to be able to help-defend, rebound & block shots. He was also supposed to be a strong man up defender on positions 1-4.

My argument isn't that an Artest wouldn't be a major upgrade- our biggest weakness is outside shooting.

Its that a guy like Pietrus doesn't add much that we don't already have, and there is no point add another full MLE deal that turns out like the two JJs.

And really- at this point, I think our roster is so screwed with ill fitting parts, that we have to stop the Frankenstein approach and try to get a solid foundation built, grow and develop current players and exercise a lot more restraint when adding guys through S&Ts & free agency.

I'm trying to think of the last good free agent signing this knicks team has had- and I'm coming up with Allan Houston, except he was terribly marred by his $100MM extension he signed with us.
MS
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5/1/2007  9:18 AM
This notion that jefferies was going to help block shots and rebounding is absurd, anyone who thought he was going to help the team in those areas is just plain dumb. He is 6'11 and averages 5rbs a night, and less than 1 block.

Pietrus and Balkman you can't ever have enough of these guys, jefferies is one of the worst players in the nba we can't keep having isiah **** the franchise and then not make a cost effective smart signing. He has done it with Crawford, Jefferies, James, etc giving out money to people that don't deserve it.

If your not smart you hustle, something only three players do at all times on this team, we need to add a forth
bigbeast
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5/1/2007  9:31 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by djsunyc:

no room for any more 3's on this roster sans trade.he should go to toronto. they needs a SF that can play defense and shoot the 3.

No room for a SF? R U kidding? Q is damaged goods, JJ2 is a situational player who shouldn't play no more than 10 mins if that, and Balk is underdeveloped.

We have quantity at SF but no quality.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-30-2007 11:28 AM]

But what does Pietrus give us that Balkman won't give us in 1-2 years?

It would be a redundant signing, just like Jeffries was.

We need outside shooting- a Matt Carroll type helps more than a Pietrus.

I meant Pietrus is basically an Ariza type anyway.

I'm not endorsing Pietrus, I'm just disputing the notion that we don't need a SF. If we are going with Lee and Curry up front, we need a G Wallace type of SF who can help-defend, rebound a little, block-shots, etc.

Ideal SF's for the front line that we already have in place:

G Wallace (probably ungettable)
AK 47 (possible)
Artest (possible)
Outlaw (young, probably cheap)
Josh Smith (ugettable)
Rahard Lewis (probably not gettable)

Wait- you just described Balkman and Jeffries?!

Why spend money to get something we already have?


Next time, dont just quote a piece of my statement because its convenient to your argument. If you noticed, I mentioned ideal SF's (Artest, G Wallace, AK47, Josh etc.) that help defend, Shot-block, rebound and even score at a much higher level than Balk and JJ2. You can't be serious if you feel JJ2 and Balk on their level.


I quoted your entire post- I highlight the part you made- and nowhere did you mention scoring:
If we are going with Lee and Curry up front, we need a G Wallace type of SF who can help-defend, rebound a little, block-shots, etc.

The reason Jeffries got the full MLE was he was supposed to be able to help-defend, rebound & block shots. He was also supposed to be a strong man up defender on positions 1-4.

My argument isn't that an Artest wouldn't be a major upgrade- our biggest weakness is outside shooting.

Its that a guy like Pietrus doesn't add much that we don't already have, and there is no point add another full MLE deal that turns out like the two JJs.

And really- at this point, I think our roster is so screwed with ill fitting parts, that we have to stop the Frankenstein approach and try to get a solid foundation built, grow and develop current players and exercise a lot more restraint when adding guys through S&Ts & free agency.

I'm trying to think of the last good free agent signing this knicks team has had- and I'm coming up with Allan Houston, except he was terribly marred by his $100MM extension he signed with us.


I think we are in agreement here in terms of the all the loose parts that dont fit. Not sure if your familiar with my posting, but I've always endorsed the idea of tearing this thing down and rebuilding with some of the youth we have. I like Marb, but for the sake of the team, I'd try to move him to Minny, Miami, etc for draft picks and expirings.

JJ2 was/is an overrated defender and I cringed when I heard Isiah claim that a situational player would be the Glue to this team. It was abad signing and I said as much when the rumors of him signing started flying last summer.

Its obvious we aint gonna rebuild, so with that in mind, I think Artest, is the type of player who could pull some of these loose players together. As I said before, I never endorsed signing Pietrus. He's a role player and we have way too many role players as is.


[Edited by - bigbeast on 05-01-2007 11:18 AM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
franco12
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5/1/2007  9:33 AM
Posted by MS:

This notion that jefferies was going to help block shots and rebounding is absurd, anyone who thought he was going to help the team in those areas is just plain dumb. He is 6'11 and averages 5rbs a night, and less than 1 block.

Pietrus and Balkman you can't ever have enough of these guys, jefferies is one of the worst players in the nba we can't keep having isiah **** the franchise and then not make a cost effective smart signing. He has done it with Crawford, Jefferies, James, etc giving out money to people that don't deserve it.

If your not smart you hustle, something only three players do at all times on this team, we need to add a forth

I disagree slightly- while you can never have enough hustle guys- and we do have a deficit of hustle guys- I think there is a limit on how many intangible type players you can have.

Once Jeffries got more time when Lee went out injured, he started to perform better. In part it was playing time, and it might have been some that he felt the need to step up- but I don't think Jeffries, Lee & Balkman as hustle, intangible type players can all co-exist-

we need some skill players- guys that know how to pass and can shoot the ball efficiently. Pietrus is a 38% 3 pt shooter- we already have one called Crawford.

We need a player who can knock down 40%+ from 3pt range. Without even looking at team stats- I bet all the teams still playing have at least 1-2 guys that shoot 40%+ from outside
MS
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5/1/2007  9:39 AM
Actually Crawford is not like Pietrus, Jamal doesn't score in the flow of the game, and he is a liability on defense. When the knicks were shorthanded they were in more games namely because crawford wasn't shooting them out of games.....

Jefferies doesn't know how to shoot the ball, doesn't need to be guarded, is weak, has no athletic ability around the rim, weak hands and can't finish. Nor can he guard 4 positions. At best he is a decent defender at the 4, subpar at the 2. I didn't see him lock down anyone really, outside of two games. His career numbers are **** and thats what you can expect of him.....

Lee and Balkman never got a chance to coexhist because Isiah was to dumb to realize that the pace of the game was ever changing with the two of them on the floor. Jefferies can't do anything on the offensive so he is like jason collins with worse defense. How you give a guy a 5 year deal because you think you are smarter than everyone judging talent is disgraceful the guy has never made an all defensive team and never even been mentioned as a top defender. Bowen gets 3 million so go figure.....
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Pietrus, make a good signing for once Isiah
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