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Solace
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For point of reference: Y Curry - 0.48:1 EC Zaza Pachulia - 1.35:1 EC Y Curry - 19.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 0.8 asts, 0.5 blk, 0.4 stl, 3.6 TO in 35 mpg Z Pachulia - 12.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.5 asts, 0.5 blk, 1.1 stl, 2.3 TO in 28 mpg P.S.: Eddy - D (no defense) - E (no effort) = Y ====> (Y Curry! Y oh why????)
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Zaza Pachulia
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bigbeast
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4/26/2007  11:37 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by nixluva:

You don't need the stats to decide this one. I was at the Knicks vs. Hawks game in Atlanta and I saw in person that Za Za is getting his stats in a less impactful way. In fact things like this happen all the time in this league. You can put up what look like good numbers and STILL have a bad game, due to how you end up getting those points and how the team is playing. Thus the term "quiet 20 pts". If you're on the floor sometimes you just end up in certain situations that make you look good on the stats, but the player isn't really having an impact on the game. THE BIGGEST THING IS NO ONE DOUBLES ZA ZA!!! He can get his points cuz defenses don't really do anything special to try and stop him. He's not that kind of threat.

Meanwhile Curry would wreak havoc on a team if they didn't pay all kinds of attention to him.
Meanwhile Curry is warping the other teams defense and getting the other team into foul trouble. He's getting the Knicks the other team in the penalty earlier, which is part of the reason we shoot so many FT's. He's scoring inside on a regular basis, meanwhile Za Za probably has quite a few of his pts off jumpers. It wouldn't even be close on the scoring if Curry hit more FT's. The things that Curry has to do to improve his all around game are within his ability to accomplish. I can't say that I think Za Za would be able to become as effective in the paint as Curry is.

That is a good point Nixluva. Za Za gets his 14 points per game going primarily one on one and putbacks. Curry scores 19 points per game being almost constantly doubleteamed. When you look at it that way, the 5 pt difference between Za Za and Curry is alot bigger than it seems because those doubleteams lead (or at least should lead) to easy baskets for Curry's teammates.

That is my point, but the reason I voted for Za Za- he gets 12 points off the flow of offense. Is he as good a talent Curry? No. Do the defenses focus on him? No. But the difference is 7, in my opinion, would be made up for by other players that would be involved in the offense and his superior help d. And I don't know what kind of help D Za Za plays- by definition, it can't be worse.

How can you say Za-Za has superior help D in one sentence. Then in the next say you don't know what kind of help defender Za-Za is (meaning you haven't seen him play much if at all). You just killed your whole argument.



[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-26-2007 11:48 AM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-26-2007 11:49 AM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
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nixluva
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4/26/2007  11:40 AM
Posted by franco12:

That is my point, but the reason I voted for Za Za- he gets 12 points off the flow of offense. Is he as good a talent Curry? No. Do the defenses focus on him? No. But the difference is 7, in my opinion, would be made up for by other players that would be involved in the offense and his superior help d. And I don't know what kind of help D Za Za plays- by definition, it can't be worse.

ZaZa is a good team guy. I actually wanted us to get him and Hunter instead of giving the MLE to J. James. ZaZa is a good team defender and even his man D isn't bad. He would make a perfect back up Center on this team. He's just not as effective a player no matter what the stats say. This is why I don't judge Curry solely on his numbers. There are some real scrubs in this league that can grab rebs and so forth, but they don't really help the team in other key areas and thus teams can't live with them on the floor for 30+ mins. It's similar to how if Jared doesn't hit any shots, teams will leave him open. I could understand fans attacking Jared cuz he basically doesn't really put up any real production. I never felt that he'd be a high numbers guy to begin with, but I think he can play better than he did this year.

Curry has an effect on how this team plays and how teams play us. Once we get it together that will give us a real advantage. I'm looking forward to how this team will develop as we move forward. When this team can function more like a machine on offense and defense. That often comes with more tiime spent together under the same system.
Bonn1997
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4/26/2007  11:47 AM
Posted by misterearl:

From The Atlanta Journal Constitution 26 April 2007

Article: Handing out the Hawks' grades

Zaza Pachulia, 6-11

Center

• 2006-07 salary: $4 million

• Key stats: 12.2 points, 6.9 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.1 steals

• Highlight: Third (behind Marcus Camby, Ben Wallace) among NBA centers in steals

• Lowlight: Lost his starting job for 26 games in middle of season

• Breakdown: Pachulia didn't lead the Hawks in any statistical category and wasn't a regular presence in the paint on either end of the floor. He had a fine season for a backup, his former job, but a dismal one for a starter.

• GRADE: D

You could give a pretty comparable analysis to lazy EY Curry. Maybe "tie" would be the most reasonable option.
Pharzeone
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4/26/2007  11:55 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by misterearl:

From The Atlanta Journal Constitution 26 April 2007

Article: Handing out the Hawks' grades

Zaza Pachulia, 6-11

Center

• 2006-07 salary: $4 million

• Key stats: 12.2 points, 6.9 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.1 steals

• Highlight: Third (behind Marcus Camby, Ben Wallace) among NBA centers in steals

• Lowlight: Lost his starting job for 26 games in middle of season

• Breakdown: Pachulia didn't lead the Hawks in any statistical category and wasn't a regular presence in the paint on either end of the floor. He had a fine season for a backup, his former job, but a dismal one for a starter.

• GRADE: D

You could give a pretty comparable analysis to lazy EY Curry. Maybe "tie" would be the most reasonable option.

Bonn when did Curry lose his starting spot? Curry average 19ppg. Man you lost it.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
arkrud
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4/26/2007  12:07 PM
Eddy is a good material
He needs a Master to work this material into Player
So far Eddy never meet his Master.
May be it is good for Eddy - some material is worked into garbage and player never come out...
You need to try to see the result. But it's scary - man can be broken physically and mentally.
Let the kid just keep his joy. Another 2-3 years and he will be another Amitchi(no second meenigs )
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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4/26/2007  12:29 PM
Posted by arkrud:

Eddy is a good material
He needs a Master to work this material into Player
So far Eddy never meet his Master.
May be it is good for Eddy - some material is worked into garbage and player never come out...
You need to try to see the result. But it's scary - man can be broken physically and mentally.
Let the kid just keep his joy. Another 2-3 years and he will be another Amitchi(no second meenigs )

We have a good staff here and I'm sure that Eddy will look for advice from guys like Ewing too. Don't be so sure that Curry won't reach the levels we all want for him to reach.
franco12
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4/26/2007  12:42 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by nixluva:

You don't need the stats to decide this one. I was at the Knicks vs. Hawks game in Atlanta and I saw in person that Za Za is getting his stats in a less impactful way. In fact things like this happen all the time in this league. You can put up what look like good numbers and STILL have a bad game, due to how you end up getting those points and how the team is playing. Thus the term "quiet 20 pts". If you're on the floor sometimes you just end up in certain situations that make you look good on the stats, but the player isn't really having an impact on the game. THE BIGGEST THING IS NO ONE DOUBLES ZA ZA!!! He can get his points cuz defenses don't really do anything special to try and stop him. He's not that kind of threat.

Meanwhile Curry would wreak havoc on a team if they didn't pay all kinds of attention to him.
Meanwhile Curry is warping the other teams defense and getting the other team into foul trouble. He's getting the Knicks the other team in the penalty earlier, which is part of the reason we shoot so many FT's. He's scoring inside on a regular basis, meanwhile Za Za probably has quite a few of his pts off jumpers. It wouldn't even be close on the scoring if Curry hit more FT's. The things that Curry has to do to improve his all around game are within his ability to accomplish. I can't say that I think Za Za would be able to become as effective in the paint as Curry is.

That is a good point Nixluva. Za Za gets his 14 points per game going primarily one on one and putbacks. Curry scores 19 points per game being almost constantly doubleteamed. When you look at it that way, the 5 pt difference between Za Za and Curry is alot bigger than it seems because those doubleteams lead (or at least should lead) to easy baskets for Curry's teammates.

That is my point, but the reason I voted for Za Za- he gets 12 points off the flow of offense. Is he as good a talent Curry? No. Do the defenses focus on him? No. But the difference is 7, in my opinion, would be made up for by other players that would be involved in the offense and his superior help d. And I don't know what kind of help D Za Za plays- by definition, it can't be worse.

How can you say Za-Za has superior help D in one sentence. Then in the next say you don't know what kind of help defender Za-Za is (meaning you haven't seen him play much if at all). You just killed your whole argument.



[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-26-2007 11:48 AM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-26-2007 11:49 AM]

yes- because Curry has the worst help d in the league. No one can be worse, hence anyone is better.
islesfan
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4/26/2007  12:44 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by arkrud:

Eddy is a good material
He needs a Master to work this material into Player
So far Eddy never meet his Master.
May be it is good for Eddy - some material is worked into garbage and player never come out...
You need to try to see the result. But it's scary - man can be broken physically and mentally.
Let the kid just keep his joy. Another 2-3 years and he will be another Amitchi(no second meenigs )

We have a good staff here and I'm sure that Eddy will look for advice from guys like Ewing too. Don't be so sure that Curry won't reach the levels we all want for him to reach.

Why are you so sure that he will?

Especially when he's shown zero interest in doing anything but score.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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4/26/2007  12:45 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by misterearl:

From The Atlanta Journal Constitution 26 April 2007

Article: Handing out the Hawks' grades

Zaza Pachulia, 6-11

Center

• 2006-07 salary: $4 million

• Key stats: 12.2 points, 6.9 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.1 steals

• Highlight: Third (behind Marcus Camby, Ben Wallace) among NBA centers in steals

• Lowlight: Lost his starting job for 26 games in middle of season

• Breakdown: Pachulia didn't lead the Hawks in any statistical category and wasn't a regular presence in the paint on either end of the floor. He had a fine season for a backup, his former job, but a dismal one for a starter.

• GRADE: D

You could give a pretty comparable analysis to lazy EY Curry. Maybe "tie" would be the most reasonable option.

Bonn when did Curry lose his starting spot? Curry average 19ppg. Man you lost it.
He *should* have lost the starting spot. As to the 19 ppg are you really citing *one* stat? What about the dozens of stats in which Zaza looks better than Curry? They're all irrelevant?
franco12
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4/26/2007  12:56 PM
Curry is just like Marbury in this regard.

When we got Marbury- I was fairly excited because I was tired of having athletically challenged PGs who couldn't get into the lane, break down D and hit lay ups. Ward, Childs, Eisely, Harper, Darrell Walker, Rory Sparrow.

So, we get the PG that can do this- hit lay ups. Great. But that hasn't translated to making his team mates better, this team better or wins. He is now old & nearly untradeable.

Curry is the true low post offensive threat we've yearned for since Ewing left. Great, he can dominate down low a bit like Shaq does. But he can't rebound, he can't pass, he doesn't help the D. Soon, he will be 'mature' and he will be exposed for what he is- a unidimensional black hole on the offense.

I like watching Phoenix, Dallas and GSW play basketball- they move the ball a lot. Constant motion and skilled offensive players. Its team offense. Granted, the talent level is different.

But, I doubt if Phoenix, GSW or Dallas would take Eddy in a trade unless they were unloading garbage.

I suspect Zaza would fit into the team concepts of those three teams and would be a back up or possibly a starter. I doubt Curry would start or even back up with those teams given their style.
buddapaw
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4/26/2007  1:11 PM
For point of reference:

Y Curry - 0.48:1 EC
Zaza Pachulia - 1.35:1 EC

Y Curry - 19.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 0.8 asts, 0.5 blk, 0.4 stl, 3.6 TO in 35 mpg
Z Pachulia - 12.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.5 asts, 0.5 blk, 1.1 stl, 2.3 TO in 28 mpg

P.S.: Eddy - D (no defense) - E (no effort) = Y ====> (Y Curry! Y oh why????)


What effect does Za Za have on the game? Yeah Curry suck on Defense and if he had people moving around him maybe his turnovers would decrease. To compare to Za Za is riduculous as bad as Curry is he is way better than Za Za if on only untapped potential alone.

[Edited by - buddapaw on 04-26-2007 1:12 PM]
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Solace
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4/26/2007  1:29 PM
The fact remains: Curry stinks on everything but low post game within 5 feet of the basket with one defender on him. Take out that one thing and he's the worst player in the entire NBA!

Myth: Eddy Curry was considered for the All-Star team.

Fact: Eddy Curry bitched about not making the All-Star team and the fact that he wasn't selected bugged Curry, Marbury and a few fans who didn't know better, but no newspaper or article outside of New York had Curry anywhere near. Furthermore, Eddy Curry wasn't even in the top 10 for centers in the east.

NO. CURRY HAD NO SHOT OF BECOMING AN ALL-STAR THIS PAST YEAR. NONE!! ZERO!! Talking about him as if he almost made the All-Star team is ridiculous and, furthermore, just plain wrong. Maybe the All-Dunkin-Donuts-Team, but not the All-Star team. Ridiculous.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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4/26/2007  2:27 PM
It's scary how close the voting is
nixluva
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4/26/2007  2:41 PM
Posted by franco12:

Curry is just like Marbury in this regard.

When we got Marbury- I was fairly excited because I was tired of having athletically challenged PGs who couldn't get into the lane, break down D and hit lay ups. Ward, Childs, Eisely, Harper, Darrell Walker, Rory Sparrow.

So, we get the PG that can do this- hit lay ups. Great. But that hasn't translated to making his team mates better, this team better or wins. He is now old & nearly untradeable.

Curry is the true low post offensive threat we've yearned for since Ewing left. Great, he can dominate down low a bit like Shaq does. But he can't rebound, he can't pass, he doesn't help the D. Soon, he will be 'mature' and he will be exposed for what he is- a unidimensional black hole on the offense.

I like watching Phoenix, Dallas and GSW play basketball- they move the ball a lot. Constant motion and skilled offensive players. Its team offense. Granted, the talent level is different.

But, I doubt if Phoenix, GSW or Dallas would take Eddy in a trade unless they were unloading garbage.

I suspect Zaza would fit into the team concepts of those three teams and would be a back up or possibly a starter. I doubt Curry would start or even back up with those teams given their style.

When you look to being Curry in you are basically saying that you want to fashion your team in the direction of a primarily post oriented offense, so trying to fit him in on teams that aren't set up that way doesn't make any sense. You play to your strengths. If you have Gazelles you run, if you have Bulls you go with power. We actually have a very pretty strong team in terms of attacking the basket. Sure we can run a bit, but really this team can function as a halfcourt team and should get even better as we move along.

NO ONE would consider basing a teamaround ZaZa, cuz he doesn't really do anything well enough to warrant that. Curry can be bashed all day for not doing the little things, but he DOES possess a strength that is useful for focusing an offensive attack.
TrueBlue
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4/26/2007  2:56 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by franco12:

Curry is just like Marbury in this regard.

When we got Marbury- I was fairly excited because I was tired of having athletically challenged PGs who couldn't get into the lane, break down D and hit lay ups. Ward, Childs, Eisely, Harper, Darrell Walker, Rory Sparrow.

So, we get the PG that can do this- hit lay ups. Great. But that hasn't translated to making his team mates better, this team better or wins. He is now old & nearly untradeable.

Curry is the true low post offensive threat we've yearned for since Ewing left. Great, he can dominate down low a bit like Shaq does. But he can't rebound, he can't pass, he doesn't help the D. Soon, he will be 'mature' and he will be exposed for what he is- a unidimensional black hole on the offense.

I like watching Phoenix, Dallas and GSW play basketball- they move the ball a lot. Constant motion and skilled offensive players. Its team offense. Granted, the talent level is different.

But, I doubt if Phoenix, GSW or Dallas would take Eddy in a trade unless they were unloading garbage.

I suspect Zaza would fit into the team concepts of those three teams and would be a back up or possibly a starter. I doubt Curry would start or even back up with those teams given their style.

When you look to being Curry in you are basically saying that you want to fashion your team in the direction of a primarily post oriented offense, so trying to fit him in on teams that aren't set up that way doesn't make any sense. You play to your strengths. If you have Gazelles you run, if you have Bulls you go with power. We actually have a very pretty strong team in terms of attacking the basket. Sure we can run a bit, but really this team can function as a halfcourt team and should get even better as we move along.

NO ONE would consider basing a teamaround ZaZa, cuz he doesn't really do anything well enough to warrant that. Curry can be bashed all day for not doing the little things, but he DOES possess a strength that is useful for focusing an offensive attack.


Isn't that essentially what we did this yr HOMER? Haven't you admitted the roster doesn't complement Curry all that well? So we traded for a player, threw him on a roster that wasn't setup to run a post offense, ISAYUGH attested to this early by stating the style they wanted to run which was supposed to be a push, quick, Suns uptempo offense. Then diverted because Curry sucks at it, changing the scheme to cater to him and now we're stuck trying to find the right mix of players to cater to him and make him a better player.


Keep giving us message board stand up comedy please!

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-26-2007 2:04 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
franco12
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4/26/2007  3:11 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by franco12:

Curry is just like Marbury in this regard.

When we got Marbury- I was fairly excited because I was tired of having athletically challenged PGs who couldn't get into the lane, break down D and hit lay ups. Ward, Childs, Eisely, Harper, Darrell Walker, Rory Sparrow.

So, we get the PG that can do this- hit lay ups. Great. But that hasn't translated to making his team mates better, this team better or wins. He is now old & nearly untradeable.

Curry is the true low post offensive threat we've yearned for since Ewing left. Great, he can dominate down low a bit like Shaq does. But he can't rebound, he can't pass, he doesn't help the D. Soon, he will be 'mature' and he will be exposed for what he is- a unidimensional black hole on the offense.

I like watching Phoenix, Dallas and GSW play basketball- they move the ball a lot. Constant motion and skilled offensive players. Its team offense. Granted, the talent level is different.

But, I doubt if Phoenix, GSW or Dallas would take Eddy in a trade unless they were unloading garbage.

I suspect Zaza would fit into the team concepts of those three teams and would be a back up or possibly a starter. I doubt Curry would start or even back up with those teams given their style.

When you look to being Curry in you are basically saying that you want to fashion your team in the direction of a primarily post oriented offense, so trying to fit him in on teams that aren't set up that way doesn't make any sense. You play to your strengths. If you have Gazelles you run, if you have Bulls you go with power. We actually have a very pretty strong team in terms of attacking the basket. Sure we can run a bit, but really this team can function as a halfcourt team and should get even better as we move along.

NO ONE would consider basing a teamaround ZaZa, cuz he doesn't really do anything well enough to warrant that. Curry can be bashed all day for not doing the little things, but he DOES possess a strength that is useful for focusing an offensive attack.


Isn't that essentially what we did this yr HOMER? Haven't you admitted the roster doesn't complement Curry all that well? So we traded for a player, threw him on a roster that wasn't setup to run a post offense, ISAYUGH attested to this early by stating the style they wanted to run which was supposed to be a push, quick, Suns uptempo offense. Then diverted because Curry sucks at it, changing the scheme to cater to him and now we're stuck trying to find the right mix of players to cater to him and make him a better player.


Keep giving us message board stand up comedy please!

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-26-2007 2:04 PM]

I think that was one of the first things out of Isiah's mouth when he got here- he wanted to become more athletic.

The fact is, Isiah and Dolan have a history of overpaying simply to try to do something today when they should just wait.

I swear- its like a kid that sees something and wants it right away, rather than wait for something better.

Isiah has treated his roster like a college kid does a dorm room- picking up stray bits of half broken furniture out of the garbage, none of which fits in with a specific style.

Crawford, Curry, James, Jeffries- all guys that were available- not necessarily pieces that fit together.
misterearl
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4/26/2007  5:00 PM
Eddy Curry has stated that he is not taking any time off during the offseason and going straight back to continue workouts.

But none of that matters if he is labelled as a lazy, stupid, overweight bum.

Yeah, ZaZa is the man.
once a knick always a knick
Solace
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4/26/2007  6:12 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Eddy Curry has stated that he is not taking any time off during the offseason and going straight back to continue workouts.

But none of that matters if he is labelled as a lazy, stupid, overweight bum.

Yeah, ZaZa is the man.

When he starts playing, the criticism stops. Performance speaks louder than words. Right now, I'd say that EC's putrid defense, highlighting a 23-win effort and then a 33-win effort leaves much to be desired. If he comes back and starts targetting his flaws, stops making excuses and tries hard on the court... nobody would complain about him. But there's some REALLY BAD warning signs right now. Him improving is not out of the question, but the first piece would be his attitude above all else. Unless that changes, no amount of workout will fix things. There's that lover expectation of change, which I can't understand. For every player who improves his game and changes his attitude, 10 more don't... the odds are against him changing, especially now that his ego is inflated by morons like Cancerbury and he thinks he's a star. If Y Curry puts in the effort (something looking very unlikely), I'll admit I was wrong. If he doesn't, will you?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Solace
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4/26/2007  6:14 PM
And, for the record. I have no interest in Zaza. It was a point of comparison. That point being, most people here wouldn't want Zaza as a staritng center. Yet, he does a lot of the little things that we think are important and has more fundamentals down than Eddy. Unless Eddy gets the fundamentals down, all he is a bloated bag of 'potential'.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
misterearl
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4/26/2007  8:48 PM
Solace - being "right" is not all it's cracked up to be. It does not prove a single thing.

If any of us were so smart about personnel, we would be on some franchise payroll and going to the bank every two weeks for our opinions.

I don't understand the desperate need to throw stones at a player like Eddy Curry after he has the most productive season in his career. Perhaps you get off by hurling insults at another person simply trying to improve.

One of my favorite examples of player re-inventing himself was the self-effacing Chet Walker. Late in his career he discovered his voice to the surprise of many who thought his game was limited offensively.

NO one knows what Eddy will do next. No one. I think his decision to not take a break and continue working on his game is a plus. You would rather call him derisive names.

I can't go for that. No.

NO can do.
once a knick always a knick
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