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If You Think It's Time For Significant Change, Can the Knicks Play Without A Center?
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bobs3304
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4/24/2007  3:43 PM
Which is why it PAINS me that we had opportunites to get Artest and VC.......they wouldve complimented EC nicely...


Once again proof that Isiah has no vision. He finds out a guy's available, he gets him.


He's like a spoiled child that wants all the dolls.


ie: Sue Ellen on Arthur.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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nixluva
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4/24/2007  4:22 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Which is why it PAINS me that we had opportunites to get Artest and VC.......they wouldve complimented EC nicely...


Once again proof that Isiah has no vision. He finds out a guy's available, he gets him.


He's like a spoiled child that wants all the dolls.


ie: Sue Ellen on Arthur.

NO GM can have a Vision for a team until he get's his franchise player or at least the guy closest to that. You can try and put together a good team but in terms of a style of play you have to start somewhere with a player that has certain strengths you can build around. Centers are the easiest type of player to build a team around because if you get a somewhat dominant one, you have a key advanatage inside for a high % offense. Then you just fasion the team around that Center.

We've only just begun the process. It couldn't have started without having Curry FIRST. Then any following moves are determined once you know what you've got. We know that we need strong PF's and he's obviously still trying to provide that, by adding Morris it's clear he's looking for someone with more of a power game, than Frye, Lee or Jared has. This year he'll likely go perimeter or maybe he'll add yet another PF who can defend. In any event the team DOES make sense if you look at what we have and what Isiah's been looking to add. This team is much closer to being setup for playing with Curry as the focal point than it looks. Part of the problem is the continued growth of our young players and developing more chemistry as a team.

If Frye comes in and plays up to his abilities that would've helped a lot. The same goes for Jared. With both having an off year it only serves to make things look like isiah has done a bad job. But Frye could just as easily have been on his game this year and things would look much different. Let's give this more time.
bobs3304
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4/24/2007  4:32 PM
^ Not valid b/c Isiah's changed his game plan more times than I change my underwear...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
arkrud
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4/24/2007  4:45 PM
I am not sure why teams like Suns and GS came into conversation about Knicks
We can run and be like Atlanta or slow down and be like Portland
By just running or playing half court all the time team cannot be anywhere near good.
To be in top 10-16 teams in NBA team must be versatile and change the style depending on opponent and how opponent plays in the flow of each game.
To do this team must have good coach, team strategy, game plan, and discipline to follow them.
I think everybody know that Knicks have none of this.
And this is what they need to develop. This task is not related to which players we have - this is secondary.
Team is in the ruins and should be built from ground up.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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4/24/2007  4:49 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Not valid b/c Isiah's changed his game plan more times than I change my underwear...

I have to repeat myself over and over again whenever someone says this. For one thing we all know that Dolan had specific plans for the team when Isiah 1st got the job. We still had H2O and KT signed and with those guys Dolan wanted to see the team make it back to the playoffs. Even if Isiah may have wanted to rebuild when he 1st got here THAT'S NOT WHAT DOLAN WANTED!!!

The thing is that just because Isiah made moves early on to try and make it work, that has NOTHING to do with this team SINCE we added Curry. Let's try to stay current OK! We're not talking about the team before Curry. The only significant time for this discussion is the team now that we have Curry as the focal point of the team. Is Isiah the only GM that tried one plan only to see it fail and then switch to a new plan? You know he's not so what's the big deal? I only care that he get's it right this time. So far I like all the youth he's added and I think we more on target for better days. 2 more years and we reach a better cap status and we'd still be a relatively young team!!! Is that a bad thing now, to be young and talented? Is it a bad thing to basically only need to fix 2 positions and we'd likely be a contending team? I don't think it's fair to try and characterize Isiah as not knowing what he's doing. We don't go into detail with other GM's and all the bad moves they've made and you KNOW he's not alone in that.
Anji
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4/24/2007  5:21 PM
I think you guys are going to far over board on a lot of the knicks. We will see next season.....
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
bobs3304
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4/24/2007  5:58 PM
W.e. luva, we'll just have to see how it pans out, but as far as I'm concerned Isiah was spoiled early on and given too much freedom to do w.e.

You can back him up however you want, but the bottom line is that he's been given 3 1/2 years and he's taken far too long, hell even the owner, famous for spending, had to curtail is spending.


I mean, this is the Knicks we're talking about. The mecca. We deserve the best. on all fronts. Instead we're left with a guy who thinks Curry is Shaq and Crawford is Penny.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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4/24/2007  6:00 PM
^ And that's not to say I don't believe in Curry. I have hope for him, but I ain't holdin my breath really...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
misterearl
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4/24/2007  6:05 PM
>>I'm not trying to box you in a corner, just trying to get where you're coming from.

BlueSeats - me thinketh thou protesteth too much ....

with all due respect, the subject is as clear as I can write it. Without trying to infuse some type of sinister agenda, I would recommend the clue is in the title of the thread.

>>If what you are suggesting is that if we were to somehow jettison Marbury and Curry and go strictly with the kids we would then run Isiah's 'quick' offense with Frye in the post, a la Indy and Jermaine.

If you notice BS, I haven't suggested jettisoning anyone, but simply adding by addition and starting with the young players who demonstrated promise this season. If that is a viable direction, then (hell yes, like you said) it would seem that adding a Jermaine O'Neal might be the straw that stirs the NYK drink.

Bottom line... Instead rehashing the same topics, the intent was to take a more novel approach to talking Knicks basketball. The "Eddy Curry Sucks.... Marbury sucks... (insert name here) sucks..." threads were getting tired. arkrud's complaint to build from "the ground up" strikes me more as a tantrum than a viable option.

C'mon, what would building "from the ground up' entail... an assasination of Dolan? A mass beheading of the entire roster?

C'mon...as one of my friends would say, "what it is, is what it is..."

For all those who are looking for advanced discussion (enyspree) or (like bobsC) those who immediately want to point all fingers (including the middle one) at Isiah Thomas yadda yadda... (insert more yaddas as needed)

... "if you think it's time for significant change, can the Knicks play without a center?"







[Edited by - misterearl on 04-24-2007 6:06 PM]
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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4/24/2007  6:08 PM
with that said, nixluva's plea for patience ain't a bad idea either.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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4/24/2007  6:14 PM
from my cousin djsu's feeble hijack attempt (gsw and nyk) of this thread...

>>"I think trading Curry instantly makes the Knicks a better team". - Solace

[Edited by - misterearl on 04-24-2007 6:15 PM]
once a knick always a knick
BlueSeats
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4/24/2007  7:31 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>I'm not trying to box you in a corner, just trying to get where you're coming from.

BlueSeats - me thinketh thou protesteth too much ....

with all due respect, the subject is as clear as I can write it. Without trying to infuse some type of sinister agenda, I would recommend the clue is in the title of the thread.

>>If what you are suggesting is that if we were to somehow jettison Marbury and Curry and go strictly with the kids we would then run Isiah's 'quick' offense with Frye in the post, a la Indy and Jermaine.

If you notice BS, I haven't suggested jettisoning anyone, but simply adding by addition and starting with the young players who demonstrated promise this season. If that is a viable direction, then (hell yes, like you said) it would seem that adding a Jermaine O'Neal might be the straw that stirs the NYK drink.

Bottom line... Instead rehashing the same topics, the intent was to take a more novel approach to talking Knicks basketball. The "Eddy Curry Sucks.... Marbury sucks... (insert name here) sucks..." threads were getting tired. arkrud's complaint to build from "the ground up" strikes me more as a tantrum than a viable option.

C'mon, what would building "from the ground up' entail... an assasination of Dolan? A mass beheading of the entire roster?

C'mon...as one of my friends would say, "what it is, is what it is..."

For all those who are looking for advanced discussion (enyspree) or (like bobsC) those who immediately want to point all fingers (including the middle one) at Isiah Thomas yadda yadda... (insert more yaddas as needed)

... "if you think it's time for significant change, can the Knicks play without a center?"







[Edited by - misterearl on 04-24-2007 6:06 PM]


Okay, excellent explanation of your intent in starting the thread.

Do you mind if I ask what your own feelings are on the topic?
BRIGGS
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4/24/2007  9:36 PM
question

why would we want players 6-10[unless they play a rugged 4] whe Pheonix and GS play with guys 6-3--6-8 who can all shoot the three?

why doesnt a skill 2 make sense? we have 6 players 6-10 we need guys in the 6-4-6-7 range who can really shoot it rebound pass high level skill player who can help sore points. we already have to many tall players--that makes us slow.
RIP Crushalot😞
daddynel
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4/24/2007  9:42 PM
how many teams have actually won on a high level w/out a true center besides the suns... actually you count the suns too, because they have'nt won anything yet either.
misterearl
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4/24/2007  9:56 PM
daddynel - 6'7.5 Wes Unseld wasn't no center. He played the position but he was a big butt forward.

Bill Russell was 6'9.5 and he had a few rings to show for his efforts against the 7'2 legend known as Wilt. Dave Cowens was 6'9. Was he a center or a forward masquerading as a center?

Briggs - excellent point about the 6'10 type dudes. Okay, close your eyes for a moment and visualize the second coming of Bob McAdoo...

I'm not advancing the cause of the typical slow-footed Kurt Thomas types but a more fluid (even just slightly moreso in the case of a 6'10 Josh McRoberts perhaps) or 6'11 Tiago Splitter kinda dude.

which is why I am tempted by 6'10 Avis Wyatt of Virginia State.

The question is if you had the opportunity to uncover the next Pau Gasol... a "forward" with some range and accuracy on his shot... would you take a chance on a 6'8-6'10 type dude with the ability to put the ball on the floor and use the glass?

Then again, we can always get Channing Frye to a therapist to see what the problem is with his game. I hear the doctor from The Sopranos is fairly effective...




[Edited by - misterearl on 04-24-2007 10:06 PM]
once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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4/24/2007  10:08 PM
Posted by misterearl:

daddynel - Wes Unseld wasn't no center. He played the position but he was a big butt forward.

Bill Russell was 6'8 and he had a few rings to show for his effort. Dave Cowens was 6'9.

Briggs - excellent point about the 6'10 type dudes. Okay, close your eyes for a moment and visualize the second coming of Bob McAdoo...

I'm not advancing the cause of the typical slow-footed Kurt Thomas types but a more fluid (even just slightly moreso in the case of a 6'10 Josh McRoberts perhaps) or 6'11 Tiago Splitter kinda dude.

which is why I am tempted by 6'10 Avis Wyatt of Virginia State.

The question is if you had the opportunity to uncover the next Pau Gasol... a "forward" with some range and accuracy on his shot... would you take a chance on a 6'8-6'10 type dude with the ability to put the ball on the floor and use the glass?

Then again, we can always get Channing Frye to a therapist to see what the problem is with his game. I hear the doctor from The Sopranos is fairly effective...

[Edited by - misterearl on 04-24-2007 9:58 PM]


While I will disagree with IT that this was the *best* team ever assembled for 33 wins I personally believe a brick and mortar approach and staying the course will pay the most dividens.

Why not draft a 6-6 SG who can actually *shoot* to go along with a 6-6 PG in Collins--guys who can help us win nOW and eventually be the backcourt for 10 years. If we really want one of those 6-10 dudes--we dont need to fish for them--we can acquire a second pick. Pheonix is broke--they can offer up one the 24 pick for a few mm and nate.
RIP Crushalot😞
misterearl
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4/24/2007  10:13 PM
Briggs - I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm jus' sayin'. The Knicks could use someone who can shoot at least in the 44 to 46 percent range every now and then.

who is your 6'6 guard du jour?
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BRIGGS
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4/24/2007  10:27 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm jus' sayin'. The Knicks could use someone who can shoot at least in the 44 to 46 percent range every now and then.

who is your 6'6 guard du jour?

I'm sticking with Morris Almond--I have for 2 months now.
RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
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4/24/2007  10:27 PM
Morris Almond! I really don't think we have to change much. This team is kind of in the middle, not ONLY a post up team, but a team that can run well enough AND play half court. That's the kind of team I like anyway. If you want to go far in the playoffs it's better if you can do both well. We already know what it's gonna take for this team to work WITH Curry. I don't really want to see us move towards being primarily a run and gun team. We have the kind of size that can work if we can just get a bit more shooting.

We need to remember that this is one of the strongest rebounding teams in the league and we will only get better in that dept. Guys like Balkman and Collins only add to that, as they see increased minutes. So there will be enough chances to run even with Curry. Besides Frye and Curry can actually move, catch and finish quite well on the break and secondary break.
BRIGGS
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4/24/2007  10:40 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Morris Almond! I really don't think we have to change much. This team is kind of in the middle, not ONLY a post up team, but a team that can run well enough AND play half court. That's the kind of team I like anyway. If you want to go far in the playoffs it's better if you can do both well. We already know what it's gonna take for this team to work WITH Curry. I don't really want to see us move towards being primarily a run and gun team. We have the kind of size that can work if we can just get a bit more shooting.

We need to remember that this is one of the strongest rebounding teams in the league and we will only get better in that dept. Guys like Balkman and Collins only add to that, as they see increased minutes. So there will be enough chances to run even with Curry. Besides Frye and Curry can actually move, catch and finish quite well on the break and secondary break.

9 man rotation

C-Curry 6-11 290
PF-Balkman 6-7 215
GF-Q Rich 6-6 240
G-Mardy Collins 6-6 225
G-Stephon Marbury 6-1205
CF-Lee 6-10 260
F-Frye[hopefully an upgrade to a rough athletic 4]6-11 245
G Almond 6-6 225
G Jamal Crawford[6th man]6-5 190
10th man Nate
RIP Crushalot😞
If You Think It's Time For Significant Change, Can the Knicks Play Without A Center?

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