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The Knicks are the Anti-Yankees...
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Solace
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4/20/2007  10:17 AM
A few corrections. As 4949 pointed out, A-Rod is getting villified for three consecutive postseason slumps. And slumps in the sense that I believe he had a total of four hits in the three postseasons. As for the Yankees success, they've been good since even before 1996. In 1994, they led the AL in wins, and were likely to at least go to the WS against possibly Montreal or Atlanta (Btw, on a separate note, they ran a baseball simulat. In 1995, they were the wild card, but were 3 outs away from going to the ALCS. The Yankees success really started in 1994.

Other than that, great article. We're congratulating them for TRYING. Ridiculous. And it will be damaging. All of the fans who want a championship, but are satisfied with 33 wins... I hope I don't hear them complaining when the Knicks peak at 40 or 45 wins, because this is exactly what they asked for.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
AUTOADVERT
Solace
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4/20/2007  10:27 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Yankees play in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap. That allows you to sign free agents like Wright and Pavano. Make ridculous trades like getting rid of Henson only to reacquire. There is a reason why the Yankees fight hard to keep salary cap restrictions off the table in any CBA discussions. I am a Yankee fan but I realize that organization wouldn't be the same under salary cap restrictions. Its a different world. If you want to really want to use a baseball team to ridcule the Knicks then don't choose a team that wasted money to get to championships. I rather use the White Soxs and Angels. Salary caps matter.

Sure, the strategy would be different. Nobody is saying that the Knicks should use the Yankees strategy. More so, the point that the Knicks thought they were using the Yankees strategy -- e.g.: overpaying to get the player they want, when clearly a different stategy is required in the NBA. In some ways, that's been the Yankees strategy: you can afford it, so overpay to get your guy. However, that started AFTER the Yankees had a solid base of a team, a lot of depth, and some guys that other teams would kill to get. The problem is that there are a lot of ways which the Knicks strategy differed from the Yankees (in all of the areas that mattered). Furthermore, the Yankees (with rare exception) always targetted good-personality guys and guys who were proven winners. When the Yankees got a guy who wasn't a true Yankee (e.g.: Kevin Brown, Raul Mondesi, etc...) they were immediately taken off the club via trade or whatever means as to stop causing a locker room distraction, even if it meant the Yankees were eating salary. The difference in philosophy has hurt the Knicks. In baseball, a team can turn around in a few short years. In the NBA, it's three to five years, when done right, with precision, and as long as 10 years or more when done incorrectly. In the NBA you pay for your mistakes longer, I agree. That's just the rules of the game. The Knicks haven't made the system work for them, so they're still to blame.

[Edited by - Solace on Apr 20 2007 10:27 AM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Nalod
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4/20/2007  11:50 AM
If fans keep going and Corp. keep buying boxes, why should the team change?

Knick Lovers are died in the wool all the way and support the team.

But lets face it, MSG is an entertinment company where the benchmark of success is profits, not winning.

To rebuild you have to make an investment in the team. That requires sacrifice. Fans won't do it, Box tix holders don't want to take a client to a game and discuss the rebuilding program, and Dolan does not need to do it.

So it won't happen.

George builds form this minor leagues. HE farms assets to either trade, or to promote.

WE starphuch.

Im telling you, if the nets stay smart they might take over the town.

At least competition elevates all those involved!
Seanc3
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4/20/2007  12:28 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Yankees play in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap. That allows you to sign free agents like Wright and Pavano. Make ridculous trades like getting rid of Henson only to reacquire. There is a reason why the Yankees fight hard to keep salary cap restrictions off the table in any CBA discussions. I am a Yankee fan but I realize that organization wouldn't be the same under salary cap restrictions. Its a different world. If you want to really want to use a baseball team to ridcule the Knicks then don't choose a team that wasted money to get to championships. I rather use the White Soxs and Angels. Salary caps matter.

Sure, the strategy would be different. Nobody is saying that the Knicks should use the Yankees strategy. More so, the point that the Knicks thought they were using the Yankees strategy -- e.g.: overpaying to get the player they want, when clearly a different stategy is required in the NBA. In some ways, that's been the Yankees strategy: you can afford it, so overpay to get your guy. However, that started AFTER the Yankees had a solid base of a team, a lot of depth, and some guys that other teams would kill to get. The problem is that there are a lot of ways which the Knicks strategy differed from the Yankees (in all of the areas that mattered). Furthermore, the Yankees (with rare exception) always targetted good-personality guys and guys who were proven winners. When the Yankees got a guy who wasn't a true Yankee (e.g.: Kevin Brown, Raul Mondesi, etc...) they were immediately taken off the club via trade or whatever means as to stop causing a locker room distraction, even if it meant the Yankees were eating salary. The difference in philosophy has hurt the Knicks. In baseball, a team can turn around in a few short years. In the NBA, it's three to five years, when done right, with precision, and as long as 10 years or more when done incorrectly. In the NBA you pay for your mistakes longer, I agree. That's just the rules of the game. The Knicks haven't made the system work for them, so they're still to blame.

[Edited by - Solace on Apr 20 2007 10:27 AM]


I totally agree with that, see Nate Robinson, Steve Francis, Jerome James. Yet Isiah continually justifies their actions and play rather than setting the tone. And to reiterate the point - the amazing thing is that this mentality is totally at odds with what made Isiah a successful basketball player! And he learned from Bobby Knight, where have his values gone?
Bippity10
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4/20/2007  1:42 PM
Think about it. The team is 5 six games under .500 early in the season. 6 months removed from an entire season of quitting. And instead of telling the players to get their act together, the NY fans are criticized for not being happy. I find it mind boggling.
I just hope that people will like me
Pharzeone
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4/20/2007  2:13 PM
Posted by Nalod:

If fans keep going and Corp. keep buying boxes, why should the team change?

Knick Lovers are died in the wool all the way and support the team.

But lets face it, MSG is an entertinment company where the benchmark of success is profits, not winning.

To rebuild you have to make an investment in the team. That requires sacrifice. Fans won't do it, Box tix holders don't want to take a client to a game and discuss the rebuilding program, and Dolan does not need to do it.

So it won't happen.

George builds form this minor leagues. HE farms assets to either trade, or to promote.

WE starphuch.


Im telling you, if the nets stay smart they might take over the town.

At least competition elevates all those involved!

LOL

"How could you have traded Buhner for Ken Phelps?" - Frank Constanza to the Big Stein

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
arkrud
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4/20/2007  2:36 PM
Posted by Nalod:

If fans keep going and Corp. keep buying boxes, why should the team change?

Knick Lovers are died in the wool all the way and support the team.

But lets face it, MSG is an entertinment company where the benchmark of success is profits, not winning.

To rebuild you have to make an investment in the team. That requires sacrifice. Fans won't do it, Box tix holders don't want to take a client to a game and discuss the rebuilding program, and Dolan does not need to do it.

So it won't happen.

George builds form this minor leagues. HE farms assets to either trade, or to promote.

WE starphuch.

Im telling you, if the nets stay smart they might take over the town.

At least competition elevates all those involved!

Hmmm...
NY Nets and .... NJ Knicks...
I think this is mutching better that what we have now.
What if Dolan will by Nets and sell Knicks!!!
May be somebody should by some guns in Virginia and go to MSG headquoters?











"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
newyorknewyork
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4/20/2007  3:46 PM
Not to take away from the article which is very true.

But Baseball has no salary cap. Basketball has a salary cap. Knicks have still not adapted to this day that there is a salary cap. If there was no Salary cap in basketball Knicks would allways be successfull because of there market. But I think Yankees would be successful even with a salary cap. As they are good at growing talent. While the Knicks continue to suffer.

Also Yankees have starphuched the last few yrs and only decided to change back to building through youth philosophy this offseason. The season that past they had the best collection of hitters in all of baseball. Yankees scored a combined total of 6 runs for the last 3 games. Including getting shut out in game 3 vs the Tigers in the playoffs.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
TrueBlue
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4/20/2007  3:56 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Not to take away from the article which is very true.

But Baseball has no salary cap. Basketball has a salary cap. Knicks have still not adapted to this day that there is a salary cap. If there was no Salary cap in basketball Knicks would allways be successfull because of there market. But I think Yankees would be successful even with a salary cap. As they are good at growing talent. While the Knicks continue to suffer.

Also Yankees have starphuched the last few yrs and only decided to change back to building through youth philosophy this offseason. The season that past they had the best collection of hitters in all of baseball. Yankees scored a combined total of 6 runs for the last 3 games. Including getting shut out in game 3 vs the Tigers in the playoffs.



You made absolutely no sense whatsoever with the statement above. The Knicks haven been operating their franchise 50% to 70% over the cap since the new CBA agreement in 1999 I believe and modified one 2yrs ago. They have been running the team as if there's no cap for almost a decade. So they've had the same financial priviliges as say a Yankee ran Baseball team. They have managed to sign FA's, or trade for big name players, just the wrong ones. Actually in basketball the philosophy and environment is a different beast than other sports. In Basketball there's more of an opportunity for a single athlete to be DA MAN or be The Franchise. If basketball had no cap every team would be a big time spot as long as the dollars and vision matched the clients wishes. It would be like college basketball recruiting to a degree. A recruit class/era that has Oden, Hibbert, Horford, etc etc isn't going to result in all those players signing at Duke University just because it's Duke. You're starting to see it more and more when you look at the teams that have cap room signing FA. New York has/had the ability/freedom while being over the cap to work S&T's with FA every off-season if they so chose to do it. We saw Arenas leaving for Washington, Joe Johnson leaving for ATL, T-Mac leaving for Orlando, Boozer leaving for Utah, K-Mart leaving for Denver, Peja leaving for Hornets, Larry Hughes leaving for Cleveland. Some of those athletes could have signed a 1 yr deal somewhere and waited the following yr to sign in a bigger market, they didn't. Those aren't/were'nt necessairly or just became big market teams. New York, LA, and Chicago would have a slight edge but not as much as people think they would. If every team had the owner that ISAYUGH has had, you best believe all other 29 teams would have had more success than we had over the past decade. Also how much more time do they need to adjust to the cap regulations while we watch other teams operate within the confines of it quite nicely?

Sorry the culture here is rotten and your post is a prime example of the effect it has had on the fan base.


LOL that post was hilarious





[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-20-2007 3:25 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TrentTuckerFan
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4/20/2007  4:01 PM
They linked this article on ESPN’s TrueHoop:

http://myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop

Under Friday’s bullets – it is the second bullet point:


Hopefully the world can feel out pain!!

Also – They try and compare Zeke with McHale and say McHale is a worse GM.

Not to take anything away from McHale (he has been horrible) but he is not nearly as bad as Isiah!!!
Bippity10
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4/20/2007  5:06 PM
Posted by TrentTuckerFan:

They linked this article on ESPN’s TrueHoop:

http://myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop

Under Friday’s bullets – it is the second bullet point:


Hopefully the world can feel out pain!!

Also – They try and compare Zeke with McHale and say McHale is a worse GM.

Not to take anything away from McHale (he has been horrible) but he is not nearly as bad as Isiah!!!

Dead on, 100% on target.

And we have fans running around everywhere telling other NY fans to accept it.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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4/20/2007  5:25 PM
The difference between the Yankees and Knicks is simple. When the Yankees are bad they wonder why they aren't good. When they are good they wonder why they aren't great. When they are great, they wonder why they aren't legendary. They always raise the bar.

The Knicks on the other hand.......We are being trained by our front office that when we are bad, dont be unhappy. Celebrate that the guys try hard for the most part. And the "super fans" are perfectly okay with this.
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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4/20/2007  5:41 PM
The important thing is that the guys are happy and feel like winners in life. So long as that's the case, I will buy tickets, because I really want to see a bunch of happy, well-adjusted guys down there, for whom basketball is just a hobby, and who realize that winning just doesn't matter.
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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4/20/2007  5:44 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

The important thing is that the guys are happy and feel like winners in life. So long as that's the case, I will buy tickets, because I really want to see a bunch of happy, well-adjusted guys down there, for whom basketball is just a hobby, and who realize that winning just doesn't matter.

I guess you are right. I probably need to go to that Knick fan reducation camp that you always speak of.
I just hope that people will like me
4949
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4/20/2007  7:15 PM
The lowering of standards began the day an 8 seed made it to the finals and our franchise guy retired.

Just when you thought no one could put it any other way. That's just about the way it's been.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/20/2007  7:17 PM
By allowing the team to be content with below-average results – you are dooming them.

That's another good way to put it also. Just look at some of the fans on this' board! I've seen some really' low standards here!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/20/2007  7:19 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I think it's to avoid the booing to be honest with you.

Yeah, like we're not suppose to notice it, or notice we are the cause of booing.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/20/2007  7:22 PM
Yankees play in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap. That allows you to sign free agents like Wright and Pavano. Make ridculous trades like getting rid of Henson only to reacquire.

I don't think you can really make that point stick. Do you really think George would let such dumb founded, idiotic, lunatical, make me throw up constantly moves, like Dolan and his GM's have done? I just can't see it.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/20/2007  7:25 PM
Im telling you, if the nets stay smart they might take over the town.

They're still coming to Brooklyn, right? Then I can live with that.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/20/2007  7:28 PM
the amazing thing is that this mentality is totally at odds with what made Isiah a successful basketball player! And he learned from Bobby Knight, where have his values gone?

He got hired by Dolan and just like the players, became laxed! Another softy. Man' I would not want that job, unless I was allowed to build a 'winner'.
I'll never trust this' team again.
The Knicks are the Anti-Yankees...

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