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grading the knicks (isola)
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djsunyc
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4/19/2007  4:50 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by misterearl:

These guys are only a notch above the gossip columnists...
a very small notch.

Both have the same jobs....sell papers.

Both have the same credibility...none.

what gives one credibility? must they be former players? former coaches or gm's? or graduate bball journalism with an A+?
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Bonn1997
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4/19/2007  4:56 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by MS:

He was outplayed badly vs. Yao, Camby, Jefferson

How did he fair against Shaq, Howard, Big Z, Ben Wallace?

Who cares about any one specific matchup? We have to look at the entire season. Maybe if we were facing a certain team in the playoffs or if we had a huge rivalry with one team, I could understand the emphasis on a few matchups.
tomverve
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4/19/2007  5:07 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

what gives one credibility? must they be former players? former coaches or gm's? or graduate bball journalism with an A+?

I'd say quality and honesty of writing, for starters. Quality speaks for itself. Can't recall the last time I read something from a beat writer that was really interesting or illuminating or otherwise really worth reading. (Worth reading = if I hadn't read it, I'd have been worse off for it.) As for honesty, not sure how honest you can be when you have an agenda to sell papers... not to mention personal agendas that might arise from liking or disliking a player from personal interactions, or whatever. In many ways, the comparison between beat writers and gossip columnists isn't only a metaphor.
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misterearl
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4/19/2007  7:28 PM

djsu - the point is that there is no "credibility" standard for beat writers, other than having the opportunity and the blessing of a decision-maker. Your "Live From Section 404" reports are more creative, engaging, insightful and entertaining than 95% of the stuff that masquerades as journalism.

one more thing

if tomverve sez David Lee desrves and A then goshdarnit David Lee deserves an A.






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djsunyc
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4/19/2007  7:35 PM
Posted by misterearl:


djsu - the point is that there is no "credibility" standard for beat writers, other than having the opportunity and the blessing of a decision-maker. Your "Live From Section 404" reports are more creative, engaging, insightful and entertaining than 95% of the stuff that masquerades as journalism.

one more thing

if tomverve sez David Lee desrves and A then goshdarnit David Lee deserves an A.




but wouldn't it be more a directive from their editors than the writers themselves? unless they have carte blanche for their respective articles. i think anybody that writes any article for any paper has some personal agenda. to report on sports is virtually impossible to be objective b/c there's a human element. you can be like hollinger and regurgitate #'s till you're blue in the face but that makes for totally boring dialogue and doesn't sell. people read the papers to get some emotion. they want to read something they agree with or disagree with. the majority of people aren't reading sports pages at a higher level where they're trying to learn something. some may...but that makes up <1% (most likely). the sports reporting in ny is a result of the evolution (or de-volution) of the ny sports fan. it's more of a cultural thing than anything else. it is of my opinion that the sports writers in ny don't dictate change, but are a reflection of change in the makeup of ny sports fans.

sports is a primal activity. it's "me tarzan, you jane." that's the audience it's catering to.

you know, it's funny but you could almost correlate the level of play in the league to the level of reporting in ny sports section.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-19-2007 7:42 PM]
misterearl
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4/19/2007  7:45 PM
here's the problem dj, sportswriters come from such a homogenous and inbred culture that the content can't help but be redundant. Until the editors expand their criteria to include better creative writing, or open opportunities beyond the "good old boy" network, there will be the same ol' repotage next season.

and some people will even believe them as gospel.

sheesh
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misterearl
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4/19/2007  7:47 PM
>>you know, it's funny but you could almost correlate the level of play in the league to the level of reporting in ny sports section.

don't agree. I think most basketball writers don't have a clue as to the intricacy and skill set that is required to do half the things that players do,

if you never picked up a ball, can you fully appreciate (or respect) what is going on, on the floor?
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djsunyc
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4/19/2007  7:49 PM
Posted by misterearl:

here's the problem dj, sportswriters come from such a homogenous and inbred culture that the content can't help but be redundant. Until the editors expand their criteria to include better creative writing, or open opportunities beyond the "good old boy" network, there will be the same ol' repotage next season.

and some people will even believe them as gospel.

sheesh

i agree. but imho, they are just a reflection of it's readership as a whole so the scope of the problem is bigger than just the editor or the sports writers. i don't think the majority of people can handle creative writing. i think they needs things dumbed down when it comes to their sports. we are a different category of fan b/c we are on the net and accumulate more info about this team than the casual fan. but we make up what? 5% of the entire fanbase?
djsunyc
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4/19/2007  7:54 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>you know, it's funny but you could almost correlate the level of play in the league to the level of reporting in ny sports section.

don't agree. I think most basketball writers don't have a clue as to the intricacy and skill set that is required to do half the things that players do,

if you never picked up a ball, can you fully appreciate (or respect) what is going on, on the floor?

i don't know, but if a guy can't dunk, wouldn't he appreciate those that can even more?

but considering much of league is comprised of players that have had no more than 2 years of college, do they even fully appreciate how to play the game? or are they just jumping into the fray so they can get their money?

and i don't think it's relegated to just ny sports. look at espn...alot of flash, alot of color, cool graphics, but it's CRASH TV with a few diatribes of people criticizing others inbetween.

the majority of sports fans don't want to think anymore. and you know better than i do that everything printed and said on sports tv and radio is influenced by the almighty dollar and ratings.
misterearl
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4/19/2007  7:56 PM
bump the "readership". I am fed up with media outlets who should be more about the quality of their work instead of sensationalism.

If you dumb down to the audience you are only creating a dumber set of consumers.

then again, I suppose that's what the drug companies are banking on.
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BlueSeats
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4/19/2007  7:57 PM
Posted by misterearl:

here's the problem dj, sportswriters come from such a homogenous and inbred culture that the content can't help but be redundant. Until the editors expand their criteria to include better creative writing, or open opportunities beyond the "good old boy" network, there will be the same ol' repotage next season.

and some people will even believe them as gospel.

sheesh


Please, you say this from one one side of your mouth and then give Selena Roberts a D- from the other. You don't want creative writing, you want RvHoss.

misterearl
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4/19/2007  7:58 PM
>>i don't know, but if a guy can't dunk, wouldn't he appreciate those that can even more?

or he just might resent that mere "physical" ability for its obscene financial rewards that much more.

I don't feel the love
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highfivesucka
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4/19/2007  9:50 PM
Medical staff – You get the feeling that if Thomas is going to use injuries as an excuse, someone from the medical staff is going to take the fall. And this goes above trainers Roger Hinds and Antony Goenaga, who handled themselves like pros. Crawford’s injury wasn’t diagnosed until two months after he originally got hurt. And someone has to explain how Lee said that doctors told him his injury would take “days, not weeks” to heal, only to have him miss the final two months. D

lol.
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islesfan
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4/19/2007  10:33 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:

NY POST Berman = F (slanting EVERY article in favor of Marbury, reporting unobjectively about the Knicks...paid off?)

DAILY NEWS Isola = D (he is somewhat honest but he makes up a great deal of "news" about trades; does not seem to have a great relationship with any of the players...tries to make "negatives" out of things that were not supposed to be

NEWSDAY Hahn = C- (newbie...used to do the Isles beat...torn between being optimistic and facing the reality...seems to only report what he sees at the time and does not look at the story in a context of the "bigger" picture throughout the season...kind of like Knicks fans)

NY TIMES Beck = C- boring as hell but objective and factual...nothing is ever juicy but then again, the Times does not specialize in sports journalism (its not like the others do either in a academic manner) but the Times doesnt focus on sports

NJ Papers C...those guys seem to get a lot of player quotes versus Isiah quotes or organization rhetoric, which kind of makes it slightly more palatable

The writers blogs are superior to any of their articles though, largely because they are conveyed online.

You think Beck is objective?!?

I'm amazed he can see the computer screen since he's always teabagging Isiah.
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misterearl
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4/20/2007  7:13 AM
BlueSeats - forget the bandwagon for women's rights for a moment. Selena Roberts wrote more like a gossip columnist than the rest. Her tone was vindictive and rarely covered the players in any detail.

She didn't stay very long on the job.

She earned every bit of her D-
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misterearl
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4/20/2007  7:20 AM
“We’ve got something special going on here, and it’s going to happen soon,” the veteran Malik Rose said Wednesday night. “We have a lot of talented guys in this locker room. We have one of the best coaches in the league.”
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fishmike
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4/20/2007  7:59 AM
so the 4 guys that play the most minutes all get Bs. The coach gets a C+ and yet we win what? 32 games and miss the playoffs in a league where half the teams go. Awesome job. I guess we are going to be great though because Malik Rose says so
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BlueSeats
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4/20/2007  9:57 AM
Posted by misterearl:

BlueSeats - forget the bandwagon for women's rights for a moment. Selena Roberts wrote more like a gossip columnist than the rest. Her tone was vindictive and rarely covered the players in any detail.

She didn't stay very long on the job.

She earned every bit of her D-


Your desultory tone toward her gender embarasses me for forgetting just how narrow your agenda really is.

All you want is another 'shill brotha' to assist you and Isiah in "the struggle".

Your interests are only tangentially Knicks related, which is fine. I'll simply remember not to overestimate your interest in basketball going forward.

Andrew
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4/20/2007  10:48 AM
I feel that I can't criticize the writers because I've never observed them at their practice...um...err...I mean their working environment.
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tomverve
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4/20/2007  10:49 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Your desultory tone toward her gender embarasses me for forgetting just how narrow your agenda really is.

All you want is another 'shill brotha' to assist you and Isiah in "the struggle".

Your interests are only tangentially Knicks related, which is fine. I'll simply remember not to overestimate your interest in basketball going forward.

Fighting gender slings with racial arrows. Now that's classy.
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grading the knicks (isola)

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