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Artest is still the move to make
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technomaster
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4/19/2007  11:01 AM
You don't get players with superstar talent for a bag of peanuts unless they have some baggage. Sprewell had a lot of baggage, but we traded arguably the most popular Knick at the time to get him. The marriage with Sprewell worked out for a year or two... then fell apart.
He was fine w/ the T-Wolves for about a year, then he coasted... then decided to look elsewhere to feed his family.

Artest, when he's right, is a game-changer. He's one of the most complete players in the NBA, albeit not the most explosive raw athlete (that's fine), but he's a very good one. He's a significantly better defender than our top-2 guys (Q-Rich/Jeffries), with the strength and lateral quickness to guard all 5 positions. PLUS... he's got the proverbial high basketball IQ on the offensive end too, with ball handling, solid shooting and post-up skills.

His biggest problem is that he's all covered in personal issues, and those issues seem to affect him on the court. In general, his teammates tend to speak glowingly about him, but at the same time, I bet they're all a little bit scared of him. I don't think there's any way to fix the way his brain is wired.

He might have a hard time fitting in here, with Curry/Crawford as our designated top two scorers. Assuming both are healthy, we can expect around 40ppg of production from them. Artest had issues playing w/ Jermaine O'Neal, who he deemed as soft. Who knows what he'd think of Curry.

Arest is an intriguing option for the Knicks, but... there's no guarantee whether he'd help or hurt us in the long run. Very unpredictable guy.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
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NYKBocker
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4/19/2007  11:37 AM
I am torn with RonRon. I love the basketball player but I am petrified at his mental state. He can really mess up team chemistry if he is not right.

but

If we can get RonRon and John Salmons for Q, Frye and Nate then that would be a trade I can agree with.

This will gie us more flexibility of possibly getting rid of the fat in our roster by making Craw, Stevie and Marbury as trade bait. Remember that Marbury and Stevie only have 1 more year left in their contract next year making them tradeable.

[Edited by - NYKBocker on 04-19-2007 11:38 AM]
alexs
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4/19/2007  11:37 AM
Master you mention important issues, all worth consideration before making a decision. On the other hand, both Starks and Sprewell worked out very well and both brought us to the finals. Historically, one would be inclined to support such a move. But given our situation, Artest is the one to change things around, mentality and talent-wise. We quickly need to get away from the excuse and good-friends culture, it's not producing aything but frustration. Given responsibility and support, Ron Ron might well turn out to be manageable and responsible. And really what do we loose if it doesn't work out? Frye, Nate, Craw? Because we won't give up more as SAC wants to trade him anyway. Are we getting anywhere with these guys? I guess we know the answer.
New-York needs a guy like Ron Ron, the past has proven that he (and the team) will be succesful. I really don't understand the fans worrying about his attitude. They can go watch WNBA.
We don't even have a choice, we honestly can't wait another 5 years for playoffs and keep on watching this pathetically soft team, can we?
MS
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4/19/2007  11:51 AM
I would bring him here in a heartbeat he was great at sju and has taken teams to the playoffs and won't stand for people not giving it their all, bring him in and see what happens.
Nalod
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4/19/2007  12:46 PM
Artest leaves a trail that is a mess.

BasketballJones
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4/19/2007  3:05 PM
Bring Crazy Ron to NY. If he doesn't help the Knicks get to the playoffs, at least he'll provide plenty of off-court entertainment.
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bobs3304
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4/19/2007  3:07 PM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by bobs3304:

sactown isn't gonna trade him.

I don't think he wants to be there though.

and that's based on......?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BasketballJones
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4/19/2007  3:20 PM
Artest Timeline: Ron-Ron's troubled past
ESPN.com

Ron Artest brought baggage to Sacramento and he's created more since his January 2006 trade to the Kings. Here's a look at his laundry list of questionable behavior over the years:

1999-2000 season
Summer 1999: Before his rookie season, Artest applied for a part-time job at a Circuit City outlet in the Chicago area. But the Bulls stepped in before he could begin work ... and benefit from the employee discount.

Said Artest: "I thought it would be fun. And I had a friend who worked there."

Oct. 4, 1999: Fined $5,000 and sent home from the league's rookie orientation for missing a meeting. Bulls GM Jerry Krause said Artest overslept, while also having a friend in his room when visitors weren't allowed.

2000-01 season
Feb. 21, 2001: Suspended for one game and fined $7,500 for fighting with Glenn Robinson during Bulls-Bucks game.

June 13, 2001: Broke two of Michael Jordan's ribs during a pickup game. "I'm not sure what happened," Artest said in the Chicago Daily Herald. "I was just guarding him. I was just trying to get position because he was posting me up. I don't even recall him stopping for a brief second. ... I read it in the paper and was like, 'Man, Mike's ribs got broke. How'd his ribs get broke?'"

2001-02 season
Feb. 19, 2002: Traded with Ron Mercer, Brad Miller and Kevin Ollie to Pacers for Jalen Rose, Travis Best, Norm Richardson and second-round pick.

May 25, 2002: Girlfriend Jennifer Palma, mother of one of Artest's sons, accused him of grabbing her around the neck and by the arm during an argument. No charges were filed, but she was given a protective order, which Artest allegedly violated several days later by calling her. Harassment and criminal contempt charges were later dropped.

ARTEST'S ACCOLADES
It's not all bad news when it comes to Ron Artest's history. Check out his career highlights:

• 2002-03 All-Defensive Second Team
• 2004 All-Star
• 2003-04 All-NBA Third Team
• 2003-04 All-Defensive First Team
• 2003-04 Defensive Player of the Year
• Ron Artest's complete player card

2002-03 season
Sept. 15, 2002: Artest, now reunited with Kimsha Hatfield, his girlfriend of eight years and mother of his two oldest children, called the police claiming that she hit and scratched him. (The two are now married.)

Dec. 19, 2002: Fined $10,000 for shoving the Mavericks' Raja Bell and failing to leave the court in a timely manner following his ejection, which occurred after he was given his second technical foul.

Jan 4, 2003: Suspended three games and fined $35,000 for smashing video equipment after a loss to the Knicks at Madison Square Garden.

Jan. 30, 2003: Suspended four games (costing him $84,000) after confrontation with Heat coach Pat Riley on the sidelines during the game, then flipping his middle finger at the fans in Miami.

The incident boiled over in the fourth quarter when Artest scored and was fouled, and proceeded to flex his right arm while walking toward the Miami bench. Heat assistant coach Keith Askins exchanged words with Artest, who brushed against Riley. Riley, who was already hot because of an Artest flagrant foul on Caron Butler, began shouting with Artest and shoved him away.

Feb. 26, 2003: Suspended one game by Pacers for smashing a framed picture of himself in Conseco Fieldhouse.

March 9, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (sixth of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on Trail Blazers' Bonzi Wells.

March 13, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (seventh of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on 76ers' Eric Snow.

March 20, 2003: Suspended two games for flagrant foul on the Celtics' Paul Pierce five seconds into the game. Eighth flagrant foul called for automatic two game suspension.

April 3, 2003: Fined $20,000 for making an obscene gesture to the crowd in Cleveland.

2003-04 season
Feb. 16, 2004: Made his first All-Star appearance in style, by changing -- and mismatching -- sneakers throughout the game, in the hopes of landing a shoe contract.

Said Artest's agent, Mark Bartelstein: "We've been in negotiations with several different companies for a few months now. We didn't feel it was right to just wear one brand."

March 19, 2004: Suspended one game for elbowing the Trail Blazers' Derek Anderson during game.

May 25, 2004: Fined $10,000 for making an obscene gesture during Eastern Conference Finals against the Pistons.

June 1, 2004: Took a shot at Richard Hamilton's masked face and was called for a flagrant foul late in the fourth quarter of Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals, which appeared to ignite the Pistons, who would eliminate the Pacers shortly thereafter.

Said Artest of the call: "(Hamilton's) so skinny that they [the referees] didn't see it," Artest said. "I just put up my hands on him."

2004-05 season
Nov. 9-10, 2004: Benched for two games after he asked for time off to promote the release of his upcoming rap album.

"When I decided I wanted to leave the game or take a month off, I'm a grown man," Artest told ESPN. "It doesn't make me crazy to want to do something that I want to do. ... You can be anything you want to be.

"I want to be a musician. I want to own my own label and I want to be MVP and win the championship of the NBA. I feel I can do anything I want to do. I have two goals this year. I want to go platinum or have my girls, Allure, go platinum, and win the NBA championship."

Nov. 19, 2004: Charged into the stands at the Palace of Auburn Hills to attack a fan who had thrown a cup at him. Two days later, he was suspended for the remainder of the season. Artest pleaded no contest to assault and battery charges and was sentenced to a year of probation, community service, anger management counseling and a $250 fine. He missed 73 regular-season games and 13 playoff games in total, while also losing $4,995,000 in salary.

2005-06 season
Oc. 11, 2005: Said Artest on new season: "I'm going to continue playing hard and out of control, like a wild animal that needs to be caged in."

Oct. 2005: Appearing on the cover of the December issue of Penthouse, Artest said in the interview that he wanted to box Ben Wallace on pay-per-view.

Dec. 10, 2005: In a one-on-one interview with the Indianapolis Star, Artest suggests the Pacers trade him. "If the trade rumors, if there is any truth -- maybe it won't be a bad thing. They probably could win more games without me. ... If I go to the West Coast, I would come back to New York after my contract is up. ... I would go to Cleveland. I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind LeBron James. There's a lot of players I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind."

In the interview, Artest also criticized coach Rick Carlisle, who would bench Artest for two games. "I like Coach [Carlisle] as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though. ... Don't get it twisted. He's a very good coach. He knows what he's doing. I personally don't like playing for him."

Dec. 12, 2005: Placed on inactive list.

Dec. 15, 2005: Fined $10,000 for making public statements that he wanted to be traded. Said NBA senior vice president and general counsel Rick Buchanan: "Public trade demands by players was a subject discussed at length during collective bargaining negotiations this summer. The damage caused by these kind of statements was commonly understood, as was the NBA's intention to hold players accountable for such statements going forward."

Dec. 17, 2005: Has a change of heart. Said Artest in the Indianapolis Star: "I should have been a man and spoken with coach [Rick Carlisle] about my differences with him. Yes, I would like to return to the team."

Jan. 1, 2006: Artest, whose self-titled CD hits stores this summer, told the New York Post that his New Year's resolution is to: "Teach math classes in elementary schools throughout the country. And, of course, I want to sell 10 million records."

Jan. 24, 2006: Traded to Kings for Stojakovic, but trade falls through because Artest does not want to play in Sacramento.

"We waited for about an hour and half," Pacers prez Donnie Walsh told ESPN.com. "By then, I knew there was trouble. Geoff got on the phone at about 5:30 p.m. and told me that the deal was off. That Ronnie's agent [Mark Stevens] had called and told him Ronnie didn't want to play there and then called the owners. It scared them both off.

"I told Geoff that I didn't think that Ronnie meant what his agent was saying and asked him if they'd wait until the morning for us to get this sorted out. ... I wasn't happy."

Jan. 25, 2006: Artest accepts trade to Kings after speaking with the Maloof brothers, Sacramento's owners.

Jan. 27, 2006: Kings lose in Artest's debut against Celtics. Said Artest before the game: "I'm going to play hard. That's all I can do. Things that were distractions to my team in the past -- I've learned from my mistakes, and I look forward to those things not happening."

March 17, 2006: Artest returns to Indiana for first time since trade, with his Kings 15-7 and in the playoff picture since his arrival in Sacramento.

2006-07 season
Feb. 8, 2007: Dogs owned by Artest spent a total of 77 nights at the pound since July because of poor care by their owner, costing the NBA star $1,942 in boarding and impound fees, county records show.

March 5, 2007: Artest out indefinitely with Kings after domestic violence arrest.

March 11, 2007: Artest apologizes, rejoins team.

March 21, 2007: Artest is charged with four misdemeanors charges -- battery and corporal injury to a spouse, false imprisonment, and dissuading a witness from reporting a crime -- stemming from the March 5 domestic dispute at his home. Each carries a maximum sentence of one year in prison.

March 22, 2007: Pleads not guilty to misdemeanor domestic dispute charges. A Placer County (Calif.) Superior Court judge also orders him to stay at least 100 yards away from his wife and children until further notice.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2281289

[Edited by - basketballjones on 04-19-2007 15:22]
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BasketballJones
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4/19/2007  3:28 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

artest is from QB man, went to SJU, why wouldn't he be able to handle new york media? he was born to play at the garden.

Maybe, but if there's one thing we've learned in the era of Isiah, that is that not everyone who is from New York can thrive here:

Larry Brown
Stephon Marbury
Tim Thomas
Lenny Wilkins

None of these guys has had great success in NY. I disagree with the notion that a guy being from New York should be a factor in trading for him.
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djsunyc
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4/19/2007  3:31 PM
forget about playing in ny, how about playing with stephon marbury and eddy curry. what happens when curry watches another guy go right by him, does artest just sit back and say nothing or does he pull out a shank and stab him?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-19-2007 3:31 PM]
franco12
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4/19/2007  3:32 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Artest leaves a trail that is a mess.

Doesn't matter- this current knicks team is a mess. He can't make it worse.

If he thinks Curry is soft, Curry will have to either man up, or admit he is soft.

You put Marbury, Artest, Balkman, Lee and Curry on the floor, and I think you have what it takes to beat any team any night.

Marbs finally got it this year- he is no longer the weak link on defense. Teams aren't getting easy perimeter shots off on that squad- assuming Lee and Curry can improve their help & post d.

If you've two of these four -Collins, Crawford, Nate & Q- then you've got solid back ups in the back court.


Of course, a lot of us have said the same thing about how getting Crawford, Curry, Francis, would help out our squads on paper & in theory. You might have another 400 squad.
BasketballJones
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4/19/2007  3:32 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

forget about playing in ny, how about playing with stephon marbury and eddy curry. what happens when curry watches another guy go right by him, does artest just sit back and say nothing or does he pull out a shank and stab him?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-19-2007 3:31 PM]

Should make for a great NY Post headline, which is why I say Isiah should pull the trigger and bring Ron-Ron home.
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BasketballJones
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4/19/2007  3:35 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Nalod:

Artest leaves a trail that is a mess.

Doesn't matter- this current knicks team is a mess. He can't make it worse.

If he thinks Curry is soft, Curry will have to either man up, or admit he is soft.

You put Marbury, Artest, Balkman, Lee and Curry on the floor, and I think you have what it takes to beat any team any night.

Marbs finally got it this year- he is no longer the weak link on defense. Teams aren't getting easy perimeter shots off on that squad- assuming Lee and Curry can improve their help & post d.

If you've two of these four -Collins, Crawford, Nate & Q- then you've got solid back ups in the back court.


Of course, a lot of us have said the same thing about how getting Crawford, Curry, Francis, would help out our squads on paper & in theory. You might have another 400 squad.

Marbury played good D this year, the best I've ever seen from him, but it does not automatically follow that he now "gets it". It could be back to square one with Marbury next year.
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djsunyc
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4/19/2007  3:37 PM
marbury already talked about how he's going to get his #'s back up again next season.

the only difference between marbury this year and any other year is that he played nice and didn't cause no problems. he's still a terrible point guard that can't run a team. at this point in his career, he's a shooting guard who should only be relied about to shoot and score. but in terms of running a team? no thanks.
martin
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4/19/2007  3:56 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Nalod:

Artest leaves a trail that is a mess.

Doesn't matter- this current knicks team is a mess. He can't make it worse.

If he thinks Curry is soft, Curry will have to either man up, or admit he is soft.

You put Marbury, Artest, Balkman, Lee and Curry on the floor, and I think you have what it takes to beat any team any night.

Marbs finally got it this year- he is no longer the weak link on defense. Teams aren't getting easy perimeter shots off on that squad- assuming Lee and Curry can improve their help & post d.

If you've two of these four -Collins, Crawford, Nate & Q- then you've got solid back ups in the back court.


Of course, a lot of us have said the same thing about how getting Crawford, Curry, Francis, would help out our squads on paper & in theory. You might have another 400 squad.

Marbury played good D this year, the best I've ever seen from him, but it does not automatically follow that he now "gets it". It could be back to square one with Marbury next year.

wait a minute. I think the benchmark for Marb playing good D was his atrocious D played in the past, and that is a VERY low level. Dude played average D for a guard, even though it was the best we have ever seen from him.
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Solace
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4/19/2007  4:05 PM
Posted by martin:

wait a minute. I think the benchmark for Marb playing good D was his atrocious D played in the past, and that is a VERY low level. Dude played average D for a guard, even though it was the best we have ever seen from him.

Excellent point. Incredible what happens when people try. The problem is why did it take Marbs what... 10 years in the NBA before he started trying? Does anyone see that having a player with that kind of poor attitude has a negative effect on the team? We need to start getting positive rolemodels for our young players before Cancerbury's effects are irreversible.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
BasketballJones
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4/19/2007  4:15 PM
Posted by martin:


wait a minute. I think the benchmark for Marb playing good D was his atrocious D played in the past, and that is a VERY low level. Dude played average D for a guard, even though it was the best we have ever seen from him.

I agree. My point was that while most would agree he played better D than we've seen from him in the past, there's no guarantee he'll continue at that level next year.

I'm dubious about Marbury "getting it". He seems to get things, then he reverts, so I will wait until next year to see.

At any rate, all indications are Marbury's not going anywhere, so I'd rather he play average D than atrocious D.
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alexs
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Kenya
4/20/2007  4:23 AM
I agree. My point was that while most would agree he played better D than we've seen from him in the past, there's no guarantee he'll continue at that level next year

To make sure Marbury will continue you bring the hard-nosed ones in. Artest will remind him in time what D really means and on top of it, he'll lead by example. I really don't get it, fans complain about the team's attitude but at the same time refuse to take risks to turn things around. No player in the whole of the NBA has a better chance of improving things in NY, not 1 (and that includes the crazy idea of giving your future away to get KG)
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4/20/2007  9:17 AM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by bobs3304:

sactown isn't gonna trade him.

I don't think he wants to be there though.

and that's based on......?

I remember him saying something about wanting to play for Rick Adelman only, and if not, he wants out of Sactown.
franco12
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4/20/2007  9:53 AM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by bobs3304:

sactown isn't gonna trade him.

I don't think he wants to be there though.

and that's based on......?

I remember him saying something about wanting to play for Rick Adelman only, and if not, he wants out of Sactown.

Here's the thing with Artest and how crazy he is- I'm sure at some point he has wanted out. So just because there isn't a media report, doesn't mean he isn't a nut job.
Artest is still the move to make

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