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isiah's draft history
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islesfan
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4/17/2007  5:17 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

The lottery pick we lose this year hurts so bad cuz there are players available the knicks can use. With the projected pick the knicks definately have a shot at brewer, and Jeff green. If the bulls sub the lottery I'm not sure if I can stop the darkside from overtaking my knick soul.

You coming to the Dark Side would be quite a coup for us.

Come on Eny, you know you're almost there.
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BasketballJones
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4/17/2007  8:01 PM
Isiah has done quite well with his picks & trades. The only ones that didn't work out were the ones Larry Brown was responsible for.



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eViL
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4/17/2007  10:03 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

i believe Utah gets our pick from the Marbury trade.

I know that but there were 2 1rst rounders given up in the initial Marbury Trade. I want to know if and how was the first 1rst rounder was exercised.

That pick became Utah's (via Phoenix in a salary dump trade sending Gugliotta to Utah along with the Knicks two NY first rounders). They drafted Kirk Snyder. But check out the draft recap and see who else we missed out on drafting that year (notably: Josh Smith).

http://www.nbadraft.net/2004.asp
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eViL
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4/17/2007  10:06 PM
Would it make sense for Isiah to just send Utah the Chicago pick this year? That way we can fulfill the remainder of the Marbury trade and not have to worry about giving up a lottery pick in the 2010 draft when the pick is unprotected.
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TrueBlue
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4/17/2007  10:13 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

i believe Utah gets our pick from the Marbury trade.

I know that but there were 2 1rst rounders given up in the initial Marbury Trade. I want to know if and how was the first 1rst rounder was exercised.

That pick became Utah's (via Phoenix in a salary dump trade sending Gugliotta to Utah along with the Knicks two NY first rounders). They drafted Kirk Snyder. But check out the draft recap and see who else we missed out on drafting that year (notably: Josh Smith).

http://www.nbadraft.net/2004.asp


Thanks I kept looking for Phx's draft pick that yr I forgot to look at Utah. Don't forget Kevin Martin

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-17-2007 9:17 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TMS
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4/17/2007  10:35 PM
Posted by eViL:

Would it make sense for Isiah to just send Utah the Chicago pick this year? That way we can fulfill the remainder of the Marbury trade and not have to worry about giving up a lottery pick in the 2010 draft when the pick is unprotected.

i suggested that a while back too... but i have a feeling Isiah won't give up the pick cuz that's his best chance to get a quality player this offseason... i think he'll be very restricted on who he spends the MLE on if he's even allowed to use it... at least, i hope that's the case.
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TrueBlue
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4/17/2007  10:42 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by eViL:

Would it make sense for Isiah to just send Utah the Chicago pick this year? That way we can fulfill the remainder of the Marbury trade and not have to worry about giving up a lottery pick in the 2010 draft when the pick is unprotected.

i suggested that a while back too... but i have a feeling Isiah won't give up the pick cuz that's his best chance to get a quality player this offseason... i think he'll be very restricted on who he spends the MLE on if he's even allowed to use it... at least, i hope that's the case.


Here are stipulations on that pick
Utah receives a 2007 New York first-round pick (top 24 protected in 2007, top 23 protected in 2008, top 22 protected in 2009 and unproteced in 2010) (Tom Gugliotta trade 021904) via Phoenix (Marbury trade) Phoenix receives a 2005 New York Knicks first-round pick. (010504 Marbury trade).

Chicago is currently slated to pick 23. You best believe the swap with Chicago, the Knicks will use that pick and not go without using a draft pick to improve the team. 2010 is down the road, it's just that when it comes to this team it seems just around the corner because our margin for improvement is minimal.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-17-2007 9:43 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
eViL
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4/17/2007  10:48 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by eViL:

Would it make sense for Isiah to just send Utah the Chicago pick this year? That way we can fulfill the remainder of the Marbury trade and not have to worry about giving up a lottery pick in the 2010 draft when the pick is unprotected.

i suggested that a while back too... but i have a feeling Isiah won't give up the pick cuz that's his best chance to get a quality player this offseason... i think he'll be very restricted on who he spends the MLE on if he's even allowed to use it... at least, i hope that's the case.


Here are stipulations on that pick
Utah receives a 2007 New York first-round pick (top 24 protected in 2007, top 23 protected in 2008, top 22 protected in 2009 and unproteced in 2010) (Tom Gugliotta trade 021904) via Phoenix (Marbury trade) Phoenix receives a 2005 New York Knicks first-round pick. (010504 Marbury trade).

Chicago is currently slated to pick 23. You best believe the swap with Chicago, the Knicks will use that pick and not go without using a draft pick to improve the team. 2010 is down the road, it's just that when it comes to this team it seems just around the corner because our margin for improvement is minimal.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-17-2007 9:43 PM]

Right, but when you consider the roster situation here (13 guaranteed contracts) and you consider the fact that, realistically, even our 2010 pick is going to be better than 23 -- wouldn't you rather just trade the 23 pick this year than have to trade another pick in 2010 that might end up in the 10-18 range.
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TMS
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4/17/2007  10:52 PM
i agree... i think it makes sense to give up the pick this season... we're not likely going to be picking that late in the next 3 years... too bad what me & you think makes sense doesn't mean squat to the Knicks' management.
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TrueBlue
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4/17/2007  10:58 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by eViL:

Would it make sense for Isiah to just send Utah the Chicago pick this year? That way we can fulfill the remainder of the Marbury trade and not have to worry about giving up a lottery pick in the 2010 draft when the pick is unprotected.

i suggested that a while back too... but i have a feeling Isiah won't give up the pick cuz that's his best chance to get a quality player this offseason... i think he'll be very restricted on who he spends the MLE on if he's even allowed to use it... at least, i hope that's the case.


Here are stipulations on that pick
Utah receives a 2007 New York first-round pick (top 24 protected in 2007, top 23 protected in 2008, top 22 protected in 2009 and unproteced in 2010) (Tom Gugliotta trade 021904) via Phoenix (Marbury trade) Phoenix receives a 2005 New York Knicks first-round pick. (010504 Marbury trade).

Chicago is currently slated to pick 23. You best believe the swap with Chicago, the Knicks will use that pick and not go without using a draft pick to improve the team. 2010 is down the road, it's just that when it comes to this team it seems just around the corner because our margin for improvement is minimal.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-17-2007 9:43 PM]

Right, but when you consider the roster situation here (13 guaranteed contracts) and you consider the fact that, realistically, even our 2010 pick is going to be better than 23 -- wouldn't you rather just trade the 23 pick this year than have to trade another pick in 2010 that might end up in the 10-18 range.

It's still uncertain how deep the draft will be this yr. Personally if we're thinking the team isn't going to be good by 2010 then if possible to relinquish pick now would make sense. If the draft is deep I'd like them to trade the pick and couple it with a couple players and make an appropriate trade(get player of need(Wallace/Camby) and dump salary(Jeffries/James/Q) if possible). The way the team is suited now we don't have room or time to develop a 23rd selected player even if he happened to be the caliber player of say Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-17-2007 10:00 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
4949
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4/18/2007  1:48 AM
Posted by djsunyc:


2004 1st round - lottery (traded away for marbury)
2004 2nd round - #44 trevor ariza

2005 1st round - #8 channing frye
2005 1st round - #21 nate robinson (acquired with q for kurt)
2005 1st round - #29 david lee (acquired with malik for nazr)
2005 2nd round - #34 (traded away for nazr mohammed)

2006 1st round - #2 (traded away for eddy curry)
2006 1st round - #21 renaldo balkman (acquired with jalen for AD)
2006 1st round - #30 mardy collins (acquired with malik for nazr)
2006 2nd round - #32 (traded away for mo taylor)

2007 1st round - lottery (traded away for eddy curry)
2007 1st round - #23-25 (acquired with eddy curry)
2007 2nd round - #35-40 (traded away for eddy curry)


how would you grade his performance utilizing his draft assets both in terms of talent and fit with the team?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-17-2007 12:52 PM]

Guys been here since 2004? What has improved? I don't see any improvements! starbury's been holding him back ever since he brought him here.
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4949
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4/18/2007  1:50 AM
Plus using the pick on Bynum would have kept them from making the worst trade.

Interesting point.
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4949
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4/18/2007  1:54 AM
Posted by TMS:

i'd give him a B+ overall... i'm happy w/most of the guys he's drafted w/the exception of Channing Frye... i think he really missed the boat by not taking Gerald Greene (who I wanted all along) or Bynum... i'm still on the fence w/Nate... i think he's got a lot of talent & i love his heart, but he's got a lot of maturing he needs to do as a person & a basketball player IMO.

By the time he does that, he'll be on the down side.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/18/2007  1:58 AM
Posted by TMS:

i'd give him a B+ overall... i'm happy w/most of the guys he's drafted w/the exception of Channing Frye... i think he really missed the boat by not taking Gerald Greene (who I wanted all along) or Bynum... i'm still on the fence w/Nate... i think he's got a lot of talent & i love his heart, but he's got a lot of maturing he needs to do as a person & a basketball player IMO.

I'm not really happy now that his picks have been having trouble. Nate's a punk and the Knicks will pay for that. Balkman has yet to be tested, same as Collins, so who knows, could be two more busts waiting in the wings. I signed Frye off before mid season. Lee is probably the best pick, but this injury, this mysterious injury. What was that' all about? Could he end up like Frye? Nothing really sticks out solid in our young guys.
I'll never trust this' team again.
sebstar
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4/18/2007  1:58 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by TMS:

i'd give him a B+ overall... i'm happy w/most of the guys he's drafted w/the exception of Channing Frye... i think he really missed the boat by not taking Gerald Greene (who I wanted all along) or Bynum... i'm still on the fence w/Nate... i think he's got a lot of talent & i love his heart, but he's got a lot of maturing he needs to do as a person & a basketball player IMO.

I'm not really happy now that his picks have been having trouble. Nate's a punk and the Knicks will pay for that. Balkman has yet to be tested, same as Collins, so who knows, could be two more busts waiting in the wings. I signed Frye off before mid season. Lee is probably the best pick, but this injury, this mysterious injury. What was that' all about? Could he end up like Frye? Nothing really sticks out solid in our young guys.

Are you being serious with this post or is it a joke? Hilariously negative. Late 1st rounders/2nd rounders are not considered "busts", BTW.

Isiah's draft record is great, but I am growing somewhat concerned over the development of Channing Frye. Hopefully he can regain his b-ball equilibrium over the off season. He looked like a serious player for long stretches in his rookie year. Haven't forgotten that.
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MS
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4/18/2007  2:13 PM
Its not that great right now

Balkman and Collins are going to be solid players, but signing Ariza and drafting Marcus Williams would have also made some sense, I think Lowry is going to be a good talent and is tough as nails i would hope that we could try to do a nate for lowry swap.....

Not going to kill him for the only things he has done right since he has been here, balk, lee and collins are fine

Frye is a bust, i knew that before the draft but was hopeful with his emergence as a rookie. And nate according to people familiar with the team is a huge trouble maker and very immature and they wanted him to start thearpy but declined. I would get rid of him in a heartbeat he is a time bomb waiting to happen and an embarrasment to the organization
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4/18/2007  2:38 PM
Didn't Isiah draft McGrady and Marcus Camby?

The selective hindsight displayed here is flawless.

All those who can simply point in the rear view mirror and complain about "Isiah shouda picked this guy or THAT guy...." are to be commended for their perspective.

Personally, I would be more impressed with going on record with alternate selections BEFORE the draft, instead of afterwards. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE can throw dirt balls at selections who don't pan out, after the fact.

My juicy draft picks include Trevor Ariza, Mardy Collins, Renaldo Balkman, David Lee, Channing Frye and even Nate Robinson.... ALL who have yet to approach NBA maturity or their prime NBA years.

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djsunyc
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4/18/2007  2:45 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Didn't Isiah draft McGrady and Marcus Camby?

The selective hindsight displayed here is flawless.

All those who can simply point in the rear view mirror and complain about "Isiah shouda picked this guy or THAT guy...." are to be commended for their perspective.

Personally, I would be more impressed with going on record with alternate selections BEFORE the draft, instead of afterwards. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE can throw dirt balls at selections who don't pan out, after the fact.

My juicy draft picks include Trevor Ariza, Mardy Collins, Renaldo Balkman, David Lee, Channing Frye and even Nate Robinson.... ALL who have yet to approach NBA maturity or their prime NBA years.

"if you really wanna party with me, put your hands where my eyes can see"

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i think for all intent and purposes, his drafting of mcgrady and camby don't apply since that was with another team.

as a knick gm, he traded away chances of drafting a camby or mcgrady for marbury and curry. that's just a big a part of his draft history here as taking ariza, collins, balkman, etc.
misterearl
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4/18/2007  3:04 PM
you either know talent or you don't

C'mon dj, if the intent is to illustrate how shaky a draft record Isiah Thomas owns, why shouldn't his other NBA draft picks apply?

Hold up just a cotton-pickin' minute...., didn't someone hold up Scott Layden's draft history with Utah as evidence of his competency?

why the double standard here?
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djsunyc
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4/18/2007  3:11 PM
Posted by misterearl:

you either know talent or you don't

C'mon dj, if the intent is to illustrate how shaky a draft record Isiah Thomas owns, why shouldn't his other NBA draft picks apply?

Hold up just a cotton-pickin' minute...., didn't someone hold up Scott Layden's draft history with Utah as evidence of his competency?

why the double standard here?

layden was criticized for being a poor drafter with us (and i agree) but the counter was that he didn't do jack for the knicks.

so if we want to just talk about isiah's draft history, we'll keep it to the knicks as well.

i think isiah is a good drafter but ranks VERY low in the team building aspect of gm'ing. all the talent in the world doesn't translate to wins if they don't fit. all the guys isiah draft will be in the league for a few years at least so he should get credit for never drafting a total bust. but that's why i asked not only about skill, but fit with the team.
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