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UNBIASED Breakdown of the Knicks Season (month by month)
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djsunyc
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4/12/2007  4:52 PM

vs. vs.
overall > .500 < .500
november 6-11 3-7 3-4
december 7-9 3-4 4-5
january 7-8 2-2 5-6
february 6-5 2-1 4-4
march 5-9 2-4 3-5
april 1-4 0-2 1-2
----------------------------
32-46 12-20 20-26

dec-feb 20-22 7-7 13-15
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TrueBlue
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4/12/2007  4:57 PM
Posted by djsunyc:


vs. vs.
overall > .500 < .500
november 6-11 3-7 3-4
december 7-9 3-4 4-5
january 7-8 2-2 5-6
february 6-5 2-1 4-4
march 5-9 2-4 3-5
april 1-4 0-2 1-2
----------------------------
32-46 12-20 20-26

dec-feb 20-22 7-7 13-15



Thank You dj for the diligent work.

Queenie although valiant didn't quite break it down correctly because it was slanted slightly towards the injury excuse and she has an epiphany for Jamal anyway.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
MS
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4/12/2007  5:09 PM
I love that we were force to play the rookies, if isiah had a ****ing clue he would have had balkman playing all year long, instead we had to sit through close to 30 minutes a night of jefferies getting owned and putting up 4pts 3rbs and 2 ass. Balkman always changed the pace and then isiah made his dumbest coment of the year. Saying we he plays big minutes he usually give us a double double and changes the pace of the game.?????????

How many threes in this league do that? Gerald Wallace, Shawn Marion, Josh Howard are the only players that i can compare the guy to.

If Isiah played lee and balkman 35 minutes a night every night the team would have been close to .500 just by their hustle alone, but when you your coaching and you have two guys that are probably the worst defenders at their position Curry and Jamal and then add in jefferies who is the worst offensive player at his position and we are where we are for a reason. Curry playing over 30 minutes is just not the right move, if they want to forcefed him in that time thats ok but isiah fell short as a coach this year.
islesfan
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4/12/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by MS:

I love that we were force to play the rookies, if isiah had a ****ing clue he would have had balkman playing all year long, instead we had to sit through close to 30 minutes a night of jefferies getting owned and putting up 4pts 3rbs and 2 ass. Balkman always changed the pace and then isiah made his dumbest coment of the year. Saying we he plays big minutes he usually give us a double double and changes the pace of the game.?????????

How many threes in this league do that? Gerald Wallace, Shawn Marion, Josh Howard are the only players that i can compare the guy to.

If Isiah played lee and balkman 35 minutes a night every night the team would have been close to .500 just by their hustle alone, but when you your coaching and you have two guys that are probably the worst defenders at their position Curry and Jamal and then add in jefferies who is the worst offensive player at his position and we are where we are for a reason. Curry playing over 30 minutes is just not the right move, if they want to forcefed him in that time thats ok but isiah fell short as a coach this year.

Larry Brown was "forced" to play 3 rookies last year, who all received more minutes than any rookie that Isiah has worked in this season. But Larry was killed for not playing them more and stunting their growth. Regardless that they were given more PT than most rookies.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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4/12/2007  5:20 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by djsunyc:


vs. vs.
overall > .500 < .500
november 6-11 3-7 3-4
december 7-9 3-4 4-5
january 7-8 2-2 5-6
february 6-5 2-1 4-4
march 5-9 2-4 3-5
april 1-4 0-2 1-2
----------------------------
32-46 12-20 20-26

dec-feb 20-22 7-7 13-15



Thank You dj for the diligent work.

Queenie although valiant didn't quite break it down correctly because it was slanted slightly towards the injury excuse and she has an epiphany for Jamal anyway.

Yeah, that's great work! Where did you get the info.? (You didn't tally it up yourself, did you???)
BRIGGS
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4/12/2007  5:28 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:

WHY? No personal feelings, just stats and #'s. Draw your own conclusions about the value of this...and don't let your "personal feelings" get in the way. DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS!!!

Nov: 17 games
Record 6-11
Win %: .352

NOTE: Frye missed 2 games with a sprained ankle and Lee started for him...we went 1-1
NOTE: Home record 1-6
NOTE: Away record 5-5

Dec: 16 games
Record: 7-9
Win %: .438

NOTE: Frye missed the first eight games of December...Lee started and we went 3-5
NOTE: Crawford took Francis starting position on 12/9...Marbs & Craw in the backcourt yielded a 6-6 record
NOTE: Q-Rich did not play 7 games in December...4-3 record sans Q
NOTE: Post brawl...7 games in December...4-3 to end the month
NOTE: Home record 7-3 (pre-brawl 3-4/post brawl 4-0)
NOTE: Away record 0-5

NOTE: Of the 33 games played in Nov and Dec, Franbury started 17 GAMES...the record is 6-11 with Franbury...7-9 with Steph/JC backcourt

Jan: 15 games
Record 7-8
Win %: .467

NOTE: Nate's suspension ends on 1/10 after 10 games...record without Nate 6-4
NOTE: Q returns on 1/10 as well...record without Q in January 2-1
NOTE: Jamal gets pulled from SL until 1/26 Miami game...record 2-4
NOTE: Marbs misses Phoenix game at home...0-1
NOTE: Curry misses 1/26 Miami game...record 1-0
NOTE: Home record 4-3
NOTE: Away record 3-5

February: 11 games
Record: 6-5
Win %: .545
Pre-All Star: 3-2
Post All-Star: 3-3

NOTE: David Lee missed 3 games in February...record 1-2
NOTE: Jamal Crawford missed 1 game in February...record 0-1
NOTE: HOME RECORD is 16-13 at this point (4-0 in February)...win% .551
NOTE: AWAY Record is 2-5

INJURIES GALORE: March and April...

March: 14 games
Record: 5-9
Win %: .357

NOTE: Jamal and David missed all 14 games (I do not count Lee's quasi comebacks)
NOTE: Q missed 11 games...3-6 without Q
NOTE: Home record during March is 3-4 (17-16)
NOTE: Away record is 2-5

April so Far
5 games played
RECORD: 1-4
Win % .200
HOME RECORD: 0-3 (total 20-20...one to go)
AWAY: 1-1

NOTE: Marbury did not play 3 games...record 1-2


I want to look at stats as well

Without Crawford: 6-14
Without Lee: 7-15
Without Q: 8-13

This is jibberish. The record is what it is. We traded for Q *knowing* he had a physical problem. Lee and Crawford were injuries teams endure---see almost every team in the league for reference. You are what you record says you are. Bad mistakes with the MLE that figures to be *important* depth has been brutal two years in a row. We need a hardcore defensive 4 like Mcdyess or Turiaf to help Curry a solid 2 guard who can really shoot/score from the draft and a vet PG for depth. They need to evaluate who CAN help and who CANNOT and see if we can continue youth pipeline along with bringing in 1-2 tangible vets.
RIP Crushalot&#128542;
Solace
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4/12/2007  5:38 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Solace:

That's why the addage about not putting too much into small sample sizes comes in. They played around .500 for a stretch and we'll calling this a victory. That was their best. If when they're tops, fully healthy, they're playing .450 - .500 and the rest of the time they're .300 - .400, they're destined to be a team in the .350 - .450 range every year. That's not hating, just fact. It's also unrealistic to not expect injuries. Every team has them. Good teams should be able to sustain an injury or two (we did, with the exception of Lee AND Crawford injured simultaneously). Long way to go, long way to go my friends. Finally, teams are supposed to come together in the clutch, injuries or not. A playoff run is that time. Instead, we crumbled, stopped playing hard and blame other teams for beating us with their reserves. Poor, piss poor.

I don't agree. You have to consider that when injuries hit this year, we were forced to play rookies. Next year, Balkman and Collins will be better prepared to play meaningful minutes if injuries occur again. Moreover, the team and the coaching staff will have a better idea of what the team is trying to do next season. IT can work on getting Curry to pass out of the double-team all summer and in training camp, and the players will have more defined roles in the offense now that IT has a better idea of what players can and cannot do. Additionally, Lee, Nate, and possibly Frye will all be better next year. Simply put, this team should be a more cohesive unit next season. Factor in the fact that the team should not start the year off getting booed at home, and I think it is very realistic to expect the team to perform at a .500 or better level next year. While that is not great, it is a start.

Just remember, you're talking best case scenario. There's a chance, sure, but the LIKELY scenario is that we're still not a good team. Remember, that we have just as good a chance of being .350 as .500.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TheGame
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4/12/2007  5:55 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Solace:

That's why the addage about not putting too much into small sample sizes comes in. They played around .500 for a stretch and we'll calling this a victory. That was their best. If when they're tops, fully healthy, they're playing .450 - .500 and the rest of the time they're .300 - .400, they're destined to be a team in the .350 - .450 range every year. That's not hating, just fact. It's also unrealistic to not expect injuries. Every team has them. Good teams should be able to sustain an injury or two (we did, with the exception of Lee AND Crawford injured simultaneously). Long way to go, long way to go my friends. Finally, teams are supposed to come together in the clutch, injuries or not. A playoff run is that time. Instead, we crumbled, stopped playing hard and blame other teams for beating us with their reserves. Poor, piss poor.

I don't agree. You have to consider that when injuries hit this year, we were forced to play rookies. Next year, Balkman and Collins will be better prepared to play meaningful minutes if injuries occur again. Moreover, the team and the coaching staff will have a better idea of what the team is trying to do next season. IT can work on getting Curry to pass out of the double-team all summer and in training camp, and the players will have more defined roles in the offense now that IT has a better idea of what players can and cannot do. Additionally, Lee, Nate, and possibly Frye will all be better next year. Simply put, this team should be a more cohesive unit next season. Factor in the fact that the team should not start the year off getting booed at home, and I think it is very realistic to expect the team to perform at a .500 or better level next year. While that is not great, it is a start.

Just remember, you're talking best case scenario. There's a chance, sure, but the LIKELY scenario is that we're still not a good team. Remember, that we have just as good a chance of being .350 as .500.


Well, I will agree that there should be no excuses next year. The players know the system and the coaching staff knows the players. Collins and Balkman should be able to provide meaningful minutes next year if we have injuries. Curry should have resolved the doubleteam issues. Frye and Jeffries will have a summer to find their games. Simply put, whatever problems we have, IT has the whole summer to fix them, so I think next year will be the first year that we can say our record will really reflects where our team is at in the sense of determining how good the team can become. If we only win 30-35 games next year, it is time to tear it down and start over. There will be no excuses.
Trust the Process
TrueBlue
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4/12/2007  5:58 PM
Can the Lovers explain these losses when at 80% or full strength?

Here's a Doozy

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270122014


What about this loss? We had our mainstay players

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=261223020


What about this loss? Absolute 100% full strength

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270131030


What about this loss? Our team was roided up what happended?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270112018


What about this loss? Roid Rage every single player got some burn I think even Allan Hosuton almost got into this game

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270214009


What about this loss? No Lee but everyone else got some burn

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270221020





Then when you mix in the gutter losses last 1/4 of the season @ home no wonder we are where we're at.




[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-12-2007 5:00 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bippity10
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4/13/2007  10:13 AM
Nixluva: I'm with you. I don't think this team is as bad as it is made out to be, but I also don't think it is close to being as good as you make it out be. Injuries are part of basketball. That's why it's important to develop a balanced team so that you can overcome them. I tried to explain to you over the offseason this fact when you were on the at that time current "we have the best depth in the league" kick. Now it's obvious you've backed off that stance and realize that having good players at every position is not depth. It's false depth if the pieces don't fit.

Going into next year, many of the things that were called upon(that made you a Nets fan) will need to be fixed. Isiah(the king of all Net fans) knows this and will do his best to fix them. He will definitely have to be creative considering the lack of flexibility he has given himself. Call it a bash, but it's reality.

The problem with this team is not injuries. It's the response to injuries, success, adversity etc. At some point you have to rid yourself of players that complain and cry during adversity and replace them with players that put their nose to the grindstone. And no you can't blame this all on Steve Francis and JJ. It goes deeper. The same themes keep cropping up again and again. When that happens you have to point a finger at your leadership, or lack of. Being motivated by the us against the world idea is great in the short run. But ultimately you have to have players that are motivated by one thing and that is winning and being the best. We have some of that on our team, but desperately need more.
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nixluva
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4/13/2007  10:30 AM
I don't recall saying we had THE BEST depth in the NBA, perhaps more like one of the deepest teams in the league. We actually do have good depth. As I explained many times, that has limitations. It's also relative. If you're a top 5 team and you have depth, it means more than if you're a lower half of the league team with good depth. It's not like I was saying this team can maintain the same level of play even if we subtract 3 top players, who would EVER suggest such a thing. In most cases you're hoping for no more than 1 top player and maybe a role player being out at the same time. We had MORE than that.

For the most part our depth helped us during the year. During the suspensions we held it together. Initially when we lost all 3 we were able to compete. But for how long can anyone expect the team to be able to hold on without so many key players. It's not JUST about the injuries. Of course not. This team wasn't great to begin with, So losing any of our best players for a long time is gonna be felt.

This team will be better for this season. We now have a very good look at the strengths and weaknesses of our young players. We'll be able to make more informed decisions going forward on who we should get to fill in our needs. Aren't you for the most part more confident in our role players such as Lee, Balkman and Collins. I'm very comfortable when I see them come in the game. Curry was pretty much a dependable scorer every night, less so a rebounder and defender, but he set a tone for how we attack teams. Q was having a great start to his season and hopefully he can come back more pain free for the next season, which is a good thing. We have a good chance to be able to fill our remaining holes and be much stronger next year.
Bippity10
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4/13/2007  11:14 AM
I love when you disagree with me and then echo everything that I said previously. The only difference is taht I wrote this shiot months ago and was called a Nets fan for it. You jsut apparently needed another 30 win season to see it.

As for your depth nonsense, give me a friggin break. YOu fought for 3 months about our depth. Now six months later you are going back on your oringinal beleifs. You'd garner more respect if you just admit it instead of changing your tune.
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Anji
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4/13/2007  11:22 AM
We'll never win with Marballs as the head of this team........ Never. That's why we pray that Curry, Lee, Crawford, Balkman, Mardy, Nate, becaome better quicker, so we don't depend on that fool at all.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Bippity10
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4/13/2007  11:34 AM
I think the biggest problem that fans have with the injury reasoning is this:

We still had our two best players and yet not only did we start losing, we completely collapsed. With your two best players you should still be able to beat the horrible teams at home. But with us, our two best players seem to have no affect on whether we win or not. Fans have a problem with that. What are we paying for? What are we trading lottery picks for? If everytime we face a little adversity our two best players lead us to a total and utter collapse.
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nixluva
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4/13/2007  11:35 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

I love when you disagree with me and then echo everything that I said previously. The only difference is taht I wrote this shiot months ago and was called a Nets fan for it. You jsut apparently needed another 30 win season to see it.

As for your depth nonsense, give me a friggin break. YOu fought for 3 months about our depth. Now six months later you are going back on your oringinal beleifs. You'd garner more respect if you just admit it instead of changing your tune.

SO what you're saying is that i'm not allowed to express in detail what I mean when I make a statement. It all has to be taken straight up with no qualifications. IF I say the team has "good depth", that means now that they should win at the same % no matter how many people they lose? No matter how long the time period or WHO it is that actually get's injured? You want to tell me exactly how I meant my own words and you can't do that. Only I can tell you what my own feelings are. I haven't changed a darned thing. YOU think i've changed my stance. Also you make it seem like this was some BIG topic of mine. Some huge rallying point for all of my posts all year. It's merely one of MANY points i've made over the course of the season and I didn't make it any bigger than any other strengths I felt the team had. I STILL like our depth, but let's be realistic here, there ARE LIMITS to everything.
Bippity10
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4/13/2007  12:05 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

I love when you disagree with me and then echo everything that I said previously. The only difference is taht I wrote this shiot months ago and was called a Nets fan for it. You jsut apparently needed another 30 win season to see it.

As for your depth nonsense, give me a friggin break. YOu fought for 3 months about our depth. Now six months later you are going back on your oringinal beleifs. You'd garner more respect if you just admit it instead of changing your tune.

SO what you're saying is that i'm not allowed to express in detail what I mean when I make a statement. It all has to be taken straight up with no qualifications. IF I say the team has "good depth", that means now that they should win at the same % no matter how many people they lose? No matter how long the time period or WHO it is that actually get's injured? You want to tell me exactly how I meant my own words and you can't do that. Only I can tell you what my own feelings are. I haven't changed a darned thing. YOU think i've changed my stance. Also you make it seem like this was some BIG topic of mine. Some huge rallying point for all of my posts all year. It's merely one of MANY points i've made over the course of the season and I didn't make it any bigger than any other strengths I felt the team had. I STILL like our depth, but let's be realistic here, there ARE LIMITS to everything.

Well when you contstantly belittled my posts this summer when I mentioned Q's back, Steph's knees and Eddie's possibly coming into camp out of shape. I mentioned that you had to take this into account. I also mentioned Steph and Stevie possibly causing chemistry issues. There were 3 of you specifically that called me many a name over the summer for suggesting and preparing ourselves for these possibilities. I asked the question what if? a thousand times. Each time I asked I was called negative and an idiot etc. You crowed about our depth and the vets maturity and how these things would not affect us. And that by even asking the question I was considered a non fan and a pessimist. NOw that most of what I "what iffed" about occurs I just find it funny how you no longer are disagreeeing with what I said over the summer. You are actually 100% on board and want others to be understanding towards you. I just find that funny, that's all.

Again for those who disagree with me they never seem to say what it is that they exactly disagree with, or what is unfair about what I'm saying. Injuries are an issue. You are 100% correct that injuries will affect us. But what we need to do as a team(and tell me if this is unfair, I'm open minded), is eliminate our constant pre-emptive strikes. A player goes down, and the next day in the papers we have to hear about how it will be tough to win without that player. Pre-emptive excuse before the game starts. This is how settling occurs my friend. That next night we go out and lose to a sub .500 team missing their star, while we are still playing with our two best "stars". At some point if your stars are really "stars" don't they have to be able to lead you to victory at home against the sub .500's even if they are missing a couple guys? Is this unfair? Is there a point where you will actually be hard on the team for a performance? Or shoudl we all settle and accept everything. When we have the inevitable injuries next year should we just accept that we are going to lose those games? Should we accept when our team comes out flat in the first half of games at home during a playoff race regardless of who is out of the line-up.

Instead of your nonsense rhetoric about how we need to support the team and how everything will be better next year, how about tell me what is unfair about anything I have said. At some point we have to raise the standard and not accept flat performances regardless of who is injured. Curry is out of shape every year because up to this date he has accepted flat performances. When do we change this? When is it okay to ask the team to change it?
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Bippity10
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4/13/2007  12:14 PM
Here's the deal with our Knicks. We brought in countless players that had never won before. They never learned how to win at any point in time. That in itself is not bad. Any player can learn to win in the right circumstance. But Isiah failed to address that issue and instead continued to stockpile talented players that had never won. Now here we are today and we have a group of good guys that are struggling to learn how to win. They still come out flat during "Must win games". They still come out flat during games they could easily win and start a momentum gaining, season breaking winning streak. They still relax at the slightest sign of success. For 3 1/2 years this has been the trait of all of Isiah's rosters.

At some point Isiah and the "superfans" have to understand that fans don't biotch about nothing. Taht this is a logical step to becoming better that we are avoiding. The growth of our young guys will be stunted if we don't create an environment that promotes a never settle attitude. The moment you use injuries as an excuse is the moment guys will fall back on that excuse the next time it happens. I told you the hangover of quitting last year would stay with us and it has. I'm telling you this right now. IF the excuse making doesn't stop. We don't trim the fat. And we don't bring in leaders that are proven winners you are in for another frustrating season. Another season of "why don't we win consistently".
I just hope that people will like me
UNBIASED Breakdown of the Knicks Season (month by month)

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