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Shareef Abdur Rahim vs Curry
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TrueBlue
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4/10/2007  6:08 PM
I wonder what Nixluva would have thought of someone sticking up for Reef back in the day like he does for Curry?
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Bonn1997
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4/10/2007  6:19 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

I wonder what Nixluva would have thought of someone sticking up for Reef back in the day like he does for Curry?

If it was 1999 and Isiah had traded two lottery picks for Shareef, I'm sure the same people would support the trade as much as they support the Curry trade.
nixluva
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4/10/2007  6:20 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

So does any minimal advantage from drawing double teams but not being able to pass out of them really outweigh Shareef's advantages in assists, steals, rebounding, shooting, and defense (at least lateral movement on defense)?

I think in the area of Asts, Curry will get better. He's been better as the season has gone along. In Feb. he avg'd 1.1 asts, in Mar. 1.0 and so far in Apr. 1.3.

Also the sagging that the D does on Curry actually still creates open shots even if they don't come from his passing back out. We haven't always been taking advantage of them, as guys that are open like Frye, Jared, Balkman, Lee, Collins and sadly Francis haven't always looked to take those open shots or worse did and missed. That's why I think we need to look to add some more shooting. Guys that won't hesistate to take an open shot and can hit for high %. It's also good if they are good passers and defenders. We have to keep looking for guys that have well rounded games.
islesfan
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4/10/2007  6:37 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bonn1997:

So does any minimal advantage from drawing double teams but not being able to pass out of them really outweigh Shareef's advantages in assists, steals, rebounding, shooting, and defense (at least lateral movement on defense)?

I think in the area of Asts, Curry will get better. He's been better as the season has gone along. In Feb. he avg'd 1.1 asts, in Mar. 1.0 and so far in Apr. 1.3.

Also the sagging that the D does on Curry actually still creates open shots even if they don't come from his passing back out. We haven't always been taking advantage of them, as guys that are open like Frye, Jared, Balkman, Lee, Collins and sadly Francis haven't always looked to take those open shots or worse did and missed. That's why I think we need to look to add some more shooting. Guys that won't hesistate to take an open shot and can hit for high %. It's also good if they are good passers and defenders. We have to keep looking for guys that have well rounded games.

So progress is measured in tenths? LOL

On second thought, knowing the idiot who owns this team and how he considered there to be significant and evident progress in this 32 win season, you're probably right.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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4/10/2007  6:56 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bonn1997:

So does any minimal advantage from drawing double teams but not being able to pass out of them really outweigh Shareef's advantages in assists, steals, rebounding, shooting, and defense (at least lateral movement on defense)?

I think in the area of Asts, Curry will get better. He's been better as the season has gone along. In Feb. he avg'd 1.1 asts, in Mar. 1.0 and so far in Apr. 1.3.

Also the sagging that the D does on Curry actually still creates open shots even if they don't come from his passing back out. We haven't always been taking advantage of them, as guys that are open like Frye, Jared, Balkman, Lee, Collins and sadly Francis haven't always looked to take those open shots or worse did and missed. That's why I think we need to look to add some more shooting. Guys that won't hesistate to take an open shot and can hit for high %. It's also good if they are good passers and defenders. We have to keep looking for guys that have well rounded games.

So progress is measured in tenths? LOL
ROFL! I noticed that too but didn't think of the witty reply you did
nixluva
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4/10/2007  7:07 PM
You're missing the point, AS USUAL. The guy started off the year not even avg'ing an ast a game. You have to start somewhere and despite the very small improvement it's a positive direction for him. When it comes to bigs and assists, if we can get him to the point where he avg's 1.5 to 2.0 asts that would be very good. My contention is that I think he will keep getting better at passing as he does it more and more. Also as the team get's used to him passing more I think his assists will go up. Often he's passing to guys that don't look to score. It's my hope that this will change. That we'll have guys willing and ready to hit that open 3 and that we'll get more guys slashing to the hole so Curry and make that pass. I can see Balkman in particular doing that a lot.
TrueBlue
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4/10/2007  7:13 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TrueBlue:

I wonder what Nixluva would have thought of someone sticking up for Reef back in the day like he does for Curry?

If it was 1999 and Isiah had traded two lottery picks for Shareef, I'm sure the same people would support the trade as much as they support the Curry trade.


Don't leave out the 2 rounders now let's not cut Shareef short on this Bonn.


LOL @ Nix's breakdown on Curry's assist progression. Unbelievable!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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4/10/2007  7:17 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TrueBlue:

I wonder what Nixluva would have thought of someone sticking up for Reef back in the day like he does for Curry?

If it was 1999 and Isiah had traded two lottery picks for Shareef, I'm sure the same people would support the trade as much as they support the Curry trade.


Don't leave out the 2 rounders now let's not cut Shareef short on this Bonn.


LOL @ Nix's breakdown on Curry's assist progression. Unbelievable!

Read my post above so you can see more of what my point was. Better yet go and look at how he started off and how he's been doing. If you watch the games you can see that he's better now than he was to start the year, even tho they don't always turn into asts. He's getting better at passing the ball back out.
TrueBlue
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4/10/2007  7:19 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TrueBlue:

I wonder what Nixluva would have thought of someone sticking up for Reef back in the day like he does for Curry?

If it was 1999 and Isiah had traded two lottery picks for Shareef, I'm sure the same people would support the trade as much as they support the Curry trade.


Don't leave out the 2 rounders now let's not cut Shareef short on this Bonn.


LOL @ Nix's breakdown on Curry's assist progression. Unbelievable!

Read my post above so you can see more of what my point was. Better yet go and look at how he started off and how he's been doing. If you watch the games you can see that he's better now than he was to start the year, even tho they don't always turn into asts. He's getting better at passing the ball back out.


As many times as he touched the ball all season the fact his avg is under 1ast/gm is ATROCIOUS.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bonn1997
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4/10/2007  7:54 PM
Posted by nixluva:

You're missing the point, AS USUAL. The guy started off the year not even avg'ing an ast a game. You have to start somewhere and despite the very small improvement it's a positive direction for him. When it comes to bigs and assists, if we can get him to the point where he avg's 1.5 to 2.0 asts that would be very good.
Great; at this rate, he'll reach that level in 2042

Seriously, he's getting more assists now because he's touching the ball more, NOT because he's becoming a better passer. His turnovers are going up at a faster rate than his assists.

Feb: 3.3
Mar: 3.9
April: 6.3
TMS
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4/10/2007  8:24 PM
SAR was never a dominant low post presence... he put up #'s on bad teams but never forced other teams into the kind of double & triple teaming to stop him the way Curry does now.
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nixluva
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4/10/2007  8:31 PM
Posted by TMS:

SAR was never a dominant low post presence... he put up #'s on bad teams but never forced other teams into the kind of double & triple teaming to stop him the way Curry does now.

I agree. SAR was a solid talent, but he also took a LOT of shots. Curry just got up to 12 shot per this year and SAR was up around 16 or more in his prime. The low post threat that Curry is, lends itself to much more attention from a defense. They have no choice but to focus their attention on him. He'd be too automatic if they didn't.

As i've said it's up to Isiah to make sure this team can better take advantage of that and for Curry to keep working on his game.
codeunknown
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4/10/2007  8:44 PM
Posted by nixluva:


To me it's crystal clear that we need to add a couple of guys who can consistently hit from 3. That would allow us to always have a deep threat on the floor and that should open up things for Curry or give us more high % shots from the perimeter. In addition we need for those guys to be of good size and able to play some D. We can't keep allowing teams to shoot 37% from 3 against us. So we need to shoot better from 3 and defend better against the 3.

[Edited by - nixluva on 04-10-2007 10:34 AM]

I agree.
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nyk4ever
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4/10/2007  8:48 PM
I'd be real interested in seeing a stat for centers along the lines of Assists per FG Attempt I'm pretty certain Eddy would be near deadlast.

Eddy: 12.5FGA - 0.9APG = .072
DHoward: 10.6FGA - 1.9APG = .179
JOneal: 16.5FGA - 2.4APG = .145
Big Z: 10.5FGA - 1.3APG = .145
AlJeff: 12.6FGA - 1.2APG = .095
Bynum: 5.4FGA - 1.2APG = .222

Just a few that I looked up, by Eddy is by far the worst. This stat could be totally meaningless but it made sense to me.
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codeunknown
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4/10/2007  8:52 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nixluva:

You're missing the point, AS USUAL. The guy started off the year not even avg'ing an ast a game. You have to start somewhere and despite the very small improvement it's a positive direction for him. When it comes to bigs and assists, if we can get him to the point where he avg's 1.5 to 2.0 asts that would be very good.
Great; at this rate, he'll reach that level in 2042

Seriously, he's getting more assists now because he's touching the ball more, NOT because he's becoming a better passer. His turnovers are going up at a faster rate than his assists.

Feb: 3.3
Mar: 3.9
April: 6.3

Good post.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
nixluva
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4/10/2007  9:20 PM
The TO's seems to me to have gotten worse as the team lost guys due to injury. I think Curry hasn't reacted well to all the extra attention. He's been forcing things and getting more offensive fouls. He wasn't doing that earlier in the year.

As for the FGA/ast ratio, of course RIGHT NOW that's gonna look bad, but I believe that he's going to eventually improve that stat. It's not just about this season. Curry is going to be here and he's going to have an opportunity to develop his game in this system. The more he get's to play this way, I believe the better he's going to get.
islesfan
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4/10/2007  9:32 PM
Posted by nixluva:

As for the FGA/ast ratio, of course RIGHT NOW that's gonna look bad, but I believe that he's going to eventually improve that stat. It's not just about this season. Curry is going to be here and he's going to have an opportunity to develop his game in this system. The more he get's to play this way, I believe the better he's going to get.

Based on what exactly? He's been in the league for 6 full years now and doesn't know how to pass out of the post. His Bulls teams had the kind of shooters that the Knicks need and he still never learned how to pass out to them. That's not just the Knicks system, that's something that every team works on.

It's amazing how many basic things Curry is going to learn in year 7, in addition to finding a desire to do anything besides scoring.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nixluva
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4/10/2007  9:52 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

As for the FGA/ast ratio, of course RIGHT NOW that's gonna look bad, but I believe that he's going to eventually improve that stat. It's not just about this season. Curry is going to be here and he's going to have an opportunity to develop his game in this system. The more he get's to play this way, I believe the better he's going to get.

Based on what exactly? He's been in the league for 6 full years now and doesn't know how to pass out of the post. His Bulls teams had the kind of shooters that the Knicks need and he still never learned how to pass out to them. That's not just the Knicks system, that's something that every team works on.

It's amazing how many basic things Curry is going to learn in year 7, in addition to finding a desire to do anything besides scoring.

Does anything you just said PROVE that he's NOT going to be able to improve?
codeunknown
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4/10/2007  9:57 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

As for the FGA/ast ratio, of course RIGHT NOW that's gonna look bad, but I believe that he's going to eventually improve that stat. It's not just about this season. Curry is going to be here and he's going to have an opportunity to develop his game in this system. The more he get's to play this way, I believe the better he's going to get.

Based on what exactly? He's been in the league for 6 full years now and doesn't know how to pass out of the post. His Bulls teams had the kind of shooters that the Knicks need and he still never learned how to pass out to them. That's not just the Knicks system, that's something that every team works on.

It's amazing how many basic things Curry is going to learn in year 7, in addition to finding a desire to do anything besides scoring.

Does anything you just said PROVE that he's NOT going to be able to improve?

Nothing you said proves he's going to improve significantly. That he's merely going to improve is obvious but irrelevant. In order to be consistently effective, he has to improve vastly in many areas.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
islesfan
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4/10/2007  9:57 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

As for the FGA/ast ratio, of course RIGHT NOW that's gonna look bad, but I believe that he's going to eventually improve that stat. It's not just about this season. Curry is going to be here and he's going to have an opportunity to develop his game in this system. The more he get's to play this way, I believe the better he's going to get.

Based on what exactly? He's been in the league for 6 full years now and doesn't know how to pass out of the post. His Bulls teams had the kind of shooters that the Knicks need and he still never learned how to pass out to them. That's not just the Knicks system, that's something that every team works on.

It's amazing how many basic things Curry is going to learn in year 7, in addition to finding a desire to do anything besides scoring.

Does anything you just said PROVE that he's NOT going to be able to improve?

Past Behavior Predicts Future Performance

So yes.

Oh wait, maybe he'll improve by .1 in a couple of categories.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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