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Knicks need better coach?
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JohnWallace44
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4/9/2007  2:25 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

JVG
Riley
Popovich
Carlisle
Sloan

This is like the Giants saying, we need a better coach, like Parcells, Schula, Walsh.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
AUTOADVERT
arkrud
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4/9/2007  4:02 PM
The GM work is to make trades and signings to improve the team
The draft is also important and it is not a problem with IT.
But the trades and signings require negotiations and outside the needs of the teams GMs should be willing to deal with each other.
Who want to deal with Isiah unless there is a possibily to screw him out?
Who want to play for Knicks unless one want some big $$$ for nothing?
Who want to coach for Isiah unless he is ready to kiss hss b...t?

Now tell me why future is bright?


[Edited by - arkrud on 04-09-2007 4:03 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
JohnWallace44
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4/9/2007  8:04 PM

Now tell me why future is bright?


Its not really about that. You're assuring that there is certainly no bright future if you change the coach every year. And you can't say this coach has been that bad.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
MS
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4/10/2007  10:11 AM
Jamal - 27----40% every year of his career, plays no defense, and is turnover prone, plays great 5 minutes a night usually when you need it in the forth
QRich - 27----50 games a season is going to be the norm, plays like he is 36
Jared - 25----One of the nbas worst starters and offensive players, solid d, but not good
Curry - 24----overweight, scoring machine that is turnover prone and lazy
Frye - 23------one of the softest players in the entire league can't even get minutes with whole team out
Lee - 23-------stud, needs a jumper, one of the league most efficient rbers and fg shooters
Balkman - 22---possible stud, needs a jumper, one of the best finisher in the league, great rebounder
Collins - 22---nice role player off the bench, possible starter, needs a jumper
Nate - 22------good outside shooter, high energy on offense, subpar defender, and tends to over extend his skills
Morris - 21----questionable work ethic no defensive skills, but came on the cheap may be a good asset to trade

In all honesty there are some good pieces, Lee, Balkman, Collins, some potential Nate and Curry, but the team needs a mental makeover, if you score a lot of pts and do nothing else your a specialist not a starter
BigC
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4/10/2007  10:32 AM
This team needs more than a new coach. Also what's the point of getting a new coach tomorrow when Isiah will probably have press conference Monday and fire the new coach by 4th of July weekend?
BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
Bippity10
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4/10/2007  11:21 AM
Posted by BigC:

This team needs more than a new coach. Also what's the point of getting a new coach tomorrow when Isiah will probably have press conference Monday and fire the new coach by 4th of July weekend?

It's funny because it's true
I just hope that people will like me
nixluva
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4/10/2007  11:29 AM
My listing the players and their ages, was not so that we could get into a discussion of each players individual ability at this point, but to show that the team is mostly young and developing. You could look at any team and breakdown the game of each individual player and find faults. It's about how they can function as a unit. Besides this isn't a finished product and no one is putting this team out there as one. You have to allow some time to grow a team when you go with young players.

I think isiah has done a good job as coach. NOT perfect, but good. I think he would most certainly have had a better record with a few more breaks in the health dept. Still he's continued to get these guys to compete and this is a good learning experience for them. You can see the young players gaining confidence. This summer Isiah the GM will have to work to give Isiah the Coach more help. We'll see how that turns out.
misterearl
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4/10/2007  11:53 AM
Shiftless and Lazy

Curry - 24----overweight, scoring machine that is turnover prone and lazy

Morris - 21----questionable work ethic no defensive skills, but came on the cheap may be a good asset to trade

MS - what are you basing your commentary on Morris on?
once a knick always a knick
ramtour420
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4/10/2007  1:03 PM
Zeke did a respectable job as a coach this season. He motivated his players nicely. I didn't mean for this post to be a "get rid of Isiah" one. What i mean is it seems like he could really use someone who could help with designing plays that start when Eddie is doubled. It sucks watching the team just kinda stand around in those situations. Aggire(don't remember how to spell his name) did a fantastic job with Eddie but it seems that it was limited to the things that Eddie himself needed to work on(footwork, positioning etc)
Anyone can tell the team " umm, we are gonna dump the ball to Eddie down low" but i just don't know if they practice the inside passes and off the ball movement while Curry is doubled. I watched all but 1 or 2 knick games this season and i think i only saw Nate cut to the basket, get a pass from Eddie and score ONCE the whole season. (Balkman i think did it once too)
My point is everyone needs to be in a position from which they can receive the ball and score when Eddie is doubled. Can't shoot a jump shot? Fine, run towards the basket so that Eddie can pass it to you. I just hope we'll see more of those plays ,not to mention that Eddie would be even harder to defend and wouldn't be so agressively double-triple teamed if there was a threat of easier scoring opportunities for our other guys when opposing teams just bumrush Eddie when he gets the ball end sometimes even b4 he does
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
Bippity10
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4/10/2007  1:09 PM
ramtour420 at some point you have to decide if it's the coah's offense or the players that aren't fundamentally sound enough to grasp the offense. We've had 5 coaches the last few years and each year we've struggled running a basic offense. Isiah, LB, Lenny and even Don are solid to very good offensive coaches. Yet we've had very similar issues with each team they've coached.

If Eddie is double teamed someone is open. Let's keep things simple and have him learn how to hit the open man from there then we can focus on giving him more than one option.
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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4/10/2007  1:16 PM
it just seems to me that with a backcourt of 15/16 years experience, things should just function alot smoother, no?
djsunyc
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4/10/2007  1:28 PM
Posted by nixluva:

My listing the players and their ages, was not so that we could get into a discussion of each players individual ability at this point, but to show that the team is mostly young and developing. You could look at any team and breakdown the game of each individual player and find faults. It's about how they can function as a unit. Besides this isn't a finished product and no one is putting this team out there as one. You have to allow some time to grow a team when you go with young players.

I think isiah has done a good job as coach. NOT perfect, but good. I think he would most certainly have had a better record with a few more breaks in the health dept. Still he's continued to get these guys to compete and this is a good learning experience for them. You can see the young players gaining confidence. This summer Isiah the GM will have to work to give Isiah the Coach more help. We'll see how that turns out.

it just seems to me that isiah's plan has been to just go and grab the best talent he can get his hands on with little regards to team building concepts. he went out and got marbury b/c that's the best guard he was able to get. then he went out to get crawford. meanwhile, both those guys like to shoot the ball and are 1 on 1 players. then he shifted strategy and felt the problem were his bigs so he dumped nazr and kurt (even tho he took back mo and malik). but then he had to sign jerome b/c he had no center. now, what would this team look like if eddy didn't have his heart condition? eddy was not part of isiah's plans, it just happened. that's why it's very tough to put faith in a guy who's plan is more dictated by what's available than by what he wants to do and what fits.

ok, so now eddy is here. it's pretty evident that another wholesale change needs to take place to build this team around eddy. so it looks like the past 4 years of isiah's tenure has been to find eddy. now, he must start to build the team around him. and our future resources are not that abundant so it looks like it's gonna take another 3 years or so (at least) to possibly get a big time winning product on the floor.

i hope the knicks realize how good and loyal their fanbase is to put up with the "less than stellar" performance by their basketball operations staff for so many years now.
oohah
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4/10/2007  1:30 PM
then he went out to get crawford.

Crawford was insurance for Allan Houston.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nyk4ever
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4/10/2007  1:30 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

My listing the players and their ages, was not so that we could get into a discussion of each players individual ability at this point, but to show that the team is mostly young and developing. You could look at any team and breakdown the game of each individual player and find faults. It's about how they can function as a unit. Besides this isn't a finished product and no one is putting this team out there as one. You have to allow some time to grow a team when you go with young players.

I think isiah has done a good job as coach. NOT perfect, but good. I think he would most certainly have had a better record with a few more breaks in the health dept. Still he's continued to get these guys to compete and this is a good learning experience for them. You can see the young players gaining confidence. This summer Isiah the GM will have to work to give Isiah the Coach more help. We'll see how that turns out.

it just seems to me that isiah's plan has been to just go and grab the best talent he can get his hands on with little regards to team building concepts. he went out and got marbury b/c that's the best guard he was able to get. then he went out to get crawford. meanwhile, both those guys like to shoot the ball and are 1 on 1 players. then he shifted strategy and felt the problem were his bigs so he dumped nazr and kurt (even tho he took back mo and malik). but then he had to sign jerome b/c he had no center. now, what would this team look like if eddy didn't have his heart condition? eddy was not part of isiah's plans, it just happened. that's why it's very tough to put faith in a guy who's plan is more dictated by what's available than by what he wants to do and what fits.

ok, so now eddy is here. it's pretty evident that another wholesale change needs to take place to build this team around eddy. so it looks like the past 4 years of isiah's tenure has been to find eddy. now, he must start to build the team around him. and our future resources are not that abundant so it looks like it's gonna take another 3 years or so (at least) to possibly get a big time winning product on the floor.

i hope the knicks realize how good and loyal their fanbase is to put up with the "less than stellar" performance by their basketball operations staff for so many years now.

You know how they'll show their support to their true fans DJ? After the first winning season they have, they'll hike the ticket prices, sticking it to the guys like you who have supported the crap that has gone on here.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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4/10/2007  1:32 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

My listing the players and their ages, was not so that we could get into a discussion of each players individual ability at this point, but to show that the team is mostly young and developing. You could look at any team and breakdown the game of each individual player and find faults. It's about how they can function as a unit. Besides this isn't a finished product and no one is putting this team out there as one. You have to allow some time to grow a team when you go with young players.

I think isiah has done a good job as coach. NOT perfect, but good. I think he would most certainly have had a better record with a few more breaks in the health dept. Still he's continued to get these guys to compete and this is a good learning experience for them. You can see the young players gaining confidence. This summer Isiah the GM will have to work to give Isiah the Coach more help. We'll see how that turns out.

it just seems to me that isiah's plan has been to just go and grab the best talent he can get his hands on with little regards to team building concepts. he went out and got marbury b/c that's the best guard he was able to get. then he went out to get crawford. meanwhile, both those guys like to shoot the ball and are 1 on 1 players. then he shifted strategy and felt the problem were his bigs so he dumped nazr and kurt (even tho he took back mo and malik). but then he had to sign jerome b/c he had no center. now, what would this team look like if eddy didn't have his heart condition? eddy was not part of isiah's plans, it just happened. that's why it's very tough to put faith in a guy who's plan is more dictated by what's available than by what he wants to do and what fits.

ok, so now eddy is here. it's pretty evident that another wholesale change needs to take place to build this team around eddy. so it looks like the past 4 years of isiah's tenure has been to find eddy. now, he must start to build the team around him. and our future resources are not that abundant so it looks like it's gonna take another 3 years or so (at least) to possibly get a big time winning product on the floor.

i hope the knicks realize how good and loyal their fanbase is to put up with the "less than stellar" performance by their basketball operations staff for so many years now.

You know how they'll show their support to their true fans DJ? After the first winning season they have, they'll hike the ticket prices, sticking it to the guys like you who have supported the crap that has gone on here.

to their credit, during these losing seasons, they have seriously made a conscious effort to offer more perks. there are more meet the team events. more gifts and giveaways. more ticket price breaks for select games. their marketing department has definitely changed their focus and philosphy and are making it a better place for season ticket holders.

but when it comes to the basketball operations side of the equation, i don't think they're that sympathetic to the plight of their fanbase.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-10-2007 1:33 PM]
djsunyc
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4/10/2007  1:37 PM
Posted by oohah:
then he went out to get crawford.

Crawford was insurance for Allan Houston.

oohah

isiah was high on crawford since his bulls days (when isiah was still with indiana). he was going to be a knick regardless of what happened with houston or not. and he was going to be groomed as his replacement.
nyk4ever
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4/10/2007  1:38 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

to their credit, during these losing seasons, they have seriously made a conscious effort to offer more perks. there are more meet the team events. more gifts and giveaways. more ticket price breaks for select games. their marketing department has definitely changed their focus and philosphy and are making it a better place for season ticket holders.

but when it comes to the basketball operations side of the equation, i don't think they're that sympathetic to the plight of their fanbase.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-10-2007 1:33 PM]

Thats good to know and kudos to the marketing department.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
ramtour420
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4/10/2007  1:47 PM
Bippity, i agree we haven't had a set offense that we were decent at since Allan H. left. I only remember i think Isiah's first year here and the whole "be like the Nets, uptempo , running " deal and we all remember how that didn't work out. But we now have a focal point in Eddie and its time to develop some plays that would optimize it. Once we have those plays it would help our guys to learn them and make them more fundamentally sound players. Having ppl that can hit an open jumper is key and it makes things a gazillion times easier but that can't be the only thing that would compliment our post-up offense
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
nixluva
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4/10/2007  2:09 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

ok, so now eddy is here. it's pretty evident that another wholesale change needs to take place to build this team around eddy. so it looks like the past 4 years of isiah's tenure has been to find eddy. now, he must start to build the team around him. and our future resources are not that abundant so it looks like it's gonna take another 3 years or so (at least) to possibly get a big time winning product on the floor.

I don't know that we're any further away than many of the other teams in the same boat. It's never easy unless you get that Tim Duncan type guy. Even then you have to make good decisions, as KG well knows. It hasn't been just about finding Curry, but the fact that Isiah changed direction to go younger last year. It was Curry in combination with all the other young players he's been adding.

Isiah seems to have the young guys on course. Curry, Lee, Balkman and Collins seem to have grown under him. Even Nate has shown some signs of growth, tho he's got a long way to go. The only failure this year was Frye. Guys like Q, Jared and Jamal are pretty much what they are at this point. We'll have to see what Morris will end up being, but I like his talents.

Does Isiah look to make that trade or stand pat and stick with his young guns? Does he still have any faith in Frye? I wonder what's going thru his head right now. What does he see as the solution for this team. Is it just patience or will he look to make a trade as he has in the past? I would think the safe route for him would be to keep going with the youth movement, cuz then he lowers the expectations. If he goes after a vet in a trade, then the expectations will increase, whether the move is successful or not. I'm not saying what he should do, but just trying to get in his head and figure out what he'd do at this point.
Bippity10
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4/10/2007  2:12 PM
Posted by ramtour420:

Bippity, i agree we haven't had a set offense that we were decent at since Allan H. left. I only remember i think Isiah's first year here and the whole "be like the Nets, uptempo , running " deal and we all remember how that didn't work out. But we now have a focal point in Eddie and its time to develop some plays that would optimize it. Once we have those plays it would help our guys to learn them and make them more fundamentally sound players. Having ppl that can hit an open jumper is key and it makes things a gazillion times easier but that can't be the only thing that would compliment our post-up offense

I don't disagree with you but I think the players have to change first. Right now teams are running 2 and 3 guys at Eddie hard because they know he can't pass out of the double team. Top that with the lane being clogged because we don't have shooters to spread the floor and that's where your problems begin. Once you start balancing the roster and bringing in players that can open things up inside then the current and future plays will be more effective. Right now, we are playing a pound it inside style. An inside out style. But the players don't have the passing skills to execute it in my view.

I just hope that people will like me
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