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Props for Balkman and Collins
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technomaster
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4/8/2007  1:15 AM
Showcasing these guys' potential is the most important part of getting KG. Maybe the Wolves will eventually bite on the talent we're developing and offering.

Who wouldn't like to have a steady 6'6" PG, a 6'8" poor-man's Marion/Rodman/Howard/Ariza, or a 6'9" Great White Hope? Our best trading chip of last year (Frye) has flopped, though...

As good as Mardy/Balkman have been, I'd gladly put 'em in a package if it got us Garnett.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
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Anji
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4/8/2007  1:33 AM
All I want from Collins this summer is start making free throws and make that 7-8 foot area he has been killing teams in automatic. Collins, if he is as hunger as Dlee, maybe pushing StaleBury out next season if he grows quickly. One can dream.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Anji
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4/8/2007  1:34 AM
Posted by technomaster:

Showcasing these guys' potential is the most important part of getting KG. Maybe the Wolves will eventually bite on the talent we're developing and offering.

Who wouldn't like to have a steady 6'6" PG, a 6'8" poor-man's Marion/Rodman/Howard/Ariza, or a 6'9" Great White Hope? Our best trading chip of last year (Frye) has flopped, though...

As good as Mardy/Balkman have been, I'd gladly put 'em in a package if it got us Garnett. And the only reason you would trade for KG is to win a title.

You sir are a fool. Even with KG, you still aren't winning a title with LoserBury.



[Edited by - anji on 04-08-2007 01:35 AM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
technomaster
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4/8/2007  1:56 AM
I'm not so concerned about Marbury's play as long as Crawford's around - of course, you'd think that a healthy Crawford would be coveted in a trade of this magnitude. It's complicated.

I think the development of Collins could eventually lead to an effective Collins/Crawford big backcourt next year. With Crawford set as the primary perimeter scorer, Marbury's role was reduced to defensive stopper - not his forte. He got better this season, but Collins has the tools to be a better backcourtmate for Crawford.

Alas, Marbury & Francis are still under contract for a few years, which complicates things... as does Q-Rich's back.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
islesfan
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4/8/2007  3:26 AM
Posted by oohah:

Islesfan is my daddy. The mere sight of him posting in the same thread as me causes me to lose all control of my bodily functions and I have sudden urges to post cute pictures of dogs.

Now excuse me while I go enjoy the only "human" contact that I can get on Saturday nights.

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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4/8/2007  3:34 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Collins is Frank Williams.

Balkman is a nice energy role player for 15 minutes a night.

Marcus Williams will be a starting PG in the NBA. Just for fun, his per 48 min numbers are much better than Deron Williams were in his rookie year. Not to say that MW will be as good as Deron but certainly the potential is there for him to be a solid NBA starting PG. Oh and MW will become a better scorer with practice.

Only a moron would believe Isiah's lie that the Suns were going to take Balkman. And only a complete moron would take a role player over a starting PG when they have a HUGE need for one. Besides, the argument is Williams over Collins because Balkman would have been there later for them.

I don't know what games you have been watching but Balkman is just not an enery guy for 15 minutes a night. That's like watch Lee last year and thinking he is an energy guy. He is still a rookie and with an added jumpshot can be deadly.

Same with Collins. I like the guy and think with a little experience and maturity (and a jumpshot) can be a solid starter. The guy can defend and his size gives smaller defenders TONS of problems. He is sneaky quick for his 6'6" frame. Mardy can separate himself from Frank Williams this summer by showing that he is willing to put time into his game.

I should have been clearer. Balkman is a nice 15 minute a night role player on a good team.

Lee is an energy player but he's bigger and better than Balkman.

I guess you agree that Collins is Frank Williams. I've seen nothing from Collins to indicate that he's going to be an NBA starter. Would Isiah start him at some point just to prove that he's right and everybody else is wrong? Hell yeah, but that won't mean that he's a legitimate starting PG in the NBA.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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4/8/2007  9:53 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Collins is Frank Williams.

Balkman is a nice energy role player for 15 minutes a night.

Marcus Williams will be a starting PG in the NBA. Just for fun, his per 48 min numbers are much better than Deron Williams were in his rookie year. Not to say that MW will be as good as Deron but certainly the potential is there for him to be a solid NBA starting PG. Oh and MW will become a better scorer with practice.

Only a moron would believe Isiah's lie that the Suns were going to take Balkman. And only a complete moron would take a role player over a starting PG when they have a HUGE need for one. Besides, the argument is Williams over Collins because Balkman would have been there later for them.

I don't know what games you have been watching but Balkman is just not an enery guy for 15 minutes a night. That's like watch Lee last year and thinking he is an energy guy. He is still a rookie and with an added jumpshot can be deadly.

Same with Collins. I like the guy and think with a little experience and maturity (and a jumpshot) can be a solid starter. The guy can defend and his size gives smaller defenders TONS of problems. He is sneaky quick for his 6'6" frame. Mardy can separate himself from Frank Williams this summer by showing that he is willing to put time into his game.

I should have been clearer. Balkman is a nice 15 minute a night role player on a good team.

Lee is an energy player but he's bigger and better than Balkman.

I guess you agree that Collins is Frank Williams. I've seen nothing from Collins to indicate that he's going to be an NBA starter. Would Isiah start him at some point just to prove that he's right and everybody else is wrong? Hell yeah, but that won't mean that he's a legitimate starting PG in the NBA.

I think you are selling both these players a little short...Balkman and Lee plays different positions so you can't really compare...Lee is a better scorer, passer and rebounder...Balkman can defend and rebound but a higher energy player than Lee is...Balkman develops a mid range jumper then he is more than a 15 minute player...I think we all though Lee was a 15 min role player last year and he developed into much more than that...Collins has shown more promise than Frank Williams ever did...Collins has shown he can be a solid back up point guard that defends and rebounds...Very much under control, plays with poise...Both of these players aren't starters at this point in their careers but has shown they belong in this league...These are defensive oriented players that play hard and are not afraid to stick their noses in the action...They along with Lee have to be better shooters to take the next step in my eye...My only issue is that the Knicks just have too many of the same type of players at the same talent plateau...But that's a different argument in a different thread....
tkf
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4/8/2007  10:15 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Collins is Frank Williams.

Balkman is a nice energy role player for 15 minutes a night.

Marcus Williams will be a starting PG in the NBA. Just for fun, his per 48 min numbers are much better than Deron Williams were in his rookie year. Not to say that MW will be as good as Deron but certainly the potential is there for him to be a solid NBA starting PG. Oh and MW will become a better scorer with practice.

Only a moron would believe Isiah's lie that the Suns were going to take Balkman. And only a complete moron would take a role player over a starting PG when they have a HUGE need for one. Besides, the argument is Williams over Collins because Balkman would have been there later for them.

Isles, I was sure that marcus williams would be the type of player you didn't like and collins and balkman would be, or maybe it is just because macrus williams wears another uniform and wasn't picked by Isiah? I think collins is more than just a steady PG, but thats me, you can't teach height, and length, mardy has those along with defense and a high bball IQ..

Last night the bucks announcers were raving over balkman, they were like this guy is 6'8 and 208, they said he looks and plays bigger, handles the ball well and is all over the place. to call him a 15 min per night player is, well, down right moronic. I don't mean to engage in such talk, and I am not trying to insult you, but that type of talk is ridiculous, maybe that is a better word as I don't want to offend anyone with name calling.. that is not my style.. but I think you need to put your feelings aside on this one buddy..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
franco12
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4/8/2007  10:16 AM
collins has not jump shot- yet last night, he consistent got into the lane for passes and lay ups- how? He is solid.

Hey- if he can turn into a 10 pt 5 ast 3 rb 1 stl player, and provide solid defense, it goes a long way to helping us become a winning team.
tkf
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4/8/2007  10:18 AM
If Isiah goes after garnett and parts with lee, balkman,nate, collins and a pick then he is a jackass. I am not saying that garnett is not better than the sum of those parts but geez, do we really want to see the steph/ garnett show for 3 years and then Booom.... the bottom falls out as those guys games start a steady decline? Garnett is a fantastic player, but he is not out savior.....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
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4/8/2007  10:50 AM
Last night the bucks announcers were raving over balkman, they were like this guy is 6'8 and 208, they said he looks and plays bigger, handles the ball well and is all over the place. to call him a 15 min per night player is, well, down right moronic.

Did you see Balkman take down the defensive rebound and go coast to coast for the monster slam?! There are simply not that many players who can make that kind of play. I just hope he develops a little spot-up/pull-up jumper, then this kid is fully on his way.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
JohnWallace44
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4/8/2007  1:06 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

mardy is a taller charlie ward

Um, a taller Charlie Ward is a pretty good player. He reminds me of Ron Harper a bit.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
holfresh
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4/8/2007  1:13 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by Caseloads:

mardy is a taller charlie ward

Um, a taller Charlie Ward is a pretty good player. He reminds me of Ron Harper a bit.

Charlie isn't a good comparison...Charlie couldn't defend like this and wasn't as big so Marty's size does have an effect on the defensive end...Marty is a lock down player while Chalie got his picks here and there..Only comparison is is calm demeanor, good rebounder and steady play....Marty has a better handle and more upside...Charlie was a better shooter later in his career..
nixluva
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4/8/2007  1:15 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by Caseloads:

mardy is a taller charlie ward

Um, a taller Charlie Ward is a pretty good player. He reminds me of Ron Harper a bit.

YEAH Ron Harper is a GREAT comparison. I liked Ron. Mardy has a similar calming effect when he's out there. He doesn't look like he's able to move very fast and yet he has these bursts of athleticism that surprise you. Mardy doesn't just stand around, he's active and I really like that about him. He's not shot happy and the team runs fine with him out there. He's careful with the ball and makes the simple pass.

We really have to give Isiah and his Staff credit for the drafts they've had since he's been here. The last 2 have been pretty good. I love Lee, Balkman and Collins. If Nate can mature one day soon, I think he'd also be a good player. He certainly has the talent. You just wonder sometimes if he's gonna get it. I liked his last 2 games tho. If Morris turns out to be a solid player and if Isiah can have one more great draft this year i'll be a happy man.
nyk4ever
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4/8/2007  1:19 PM
Which Ron Harper are you guys talking about, because there were 2 versions of Ron Harper, the Cleveland/Clippers one, who was a VERY good scorer and then there Chicago/Lakers one. I'm assuming it's the latter?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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4/8/2007  1:32 PM
Many props to Collins and Balkman. Honestly you have to give IT tremendous props for his drafting skills--there is no other way around it. He hs proven sans Frye to be a top 3 draft expert in the NBA--now if he could get the other stuff right:( I like big guards--look what Collins can do on the boards/defense--I mean he still cant shoot but I that that can be fixed. Someone was comparing him to charlie ward---Collins has WAY more potential because he is 6-6 and can play PG. Even though we sck, you can see the forest through the trees--it's to bad Frye has morphed into this--I think that Frye's partiuclar skills are better set for a high tempo team--which we will not be with curry. If Lee is a 6th man who plays both 4-5--we need a 4 man and some shooters. We need to find a nice 9 man rotation for next year and the rest of the guys on the bench have to have the ability to PLUG injury holes--I think we can do it. This season is over and let's not hide the fact we shouldve LOST last night to ANOTHER shtty team--a miracle saved us+ we got whipped up early again. Anyway to snag Al Horford:)
RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
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4/8/2007  1:49 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Which Ron Harper are you guys talking about, because there were 2 versions of Ron Harper, the Cleveland/Clippers one, who was a VERY good scorer and then there Chicago/Lakers one. I'm assuming it's the latter?

I'm sorry I was confused for a second. I thought he was talking about DEREK HARPER! I had him in mind. Not Ron, who to me was a very athletic and explosive player early on. Collins reminds me of Derek. He was 6-4 and a good defensive player. Smart guy not really fancy, but got the job done.
nyk4ever
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4/8/2007  2:01 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I'm sorry I was confused for a second. I thought he was talking about DEREK HARPER! I had him in mind. Not Ron, who to me was a very athletic and explosive player early on. Collins reminds me of Derek. He was 6-4 and a good defensive player. Smart guy not really fancy, but got the job done.

No worries Nix, I agree with the Derek Harper comparisons, although I think we would be talking about the Knicks version and not the Mavericks version, who was a very adept scorer and shooter. I think the Knicks Derek Harper is a pretty nice comparison and I think given enough playing time Mardy can be a perfect PG for the Eddy Curry dominated offense, especially if we make some changes where we get a top perimeter SG/SF, Mardy would be an excellent distributor on that type of team. If something happens and we change the offense, I don't think he will be nearly as effective, but I don't think we are going to have to worry about that for awhile.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nixluva
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4/8/2007  2:29 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:

I'm sorry I was confused for a second. I thought he was talking about DEREK HARPER! I had him in mind. Not Ron, who to me was a very athletic and explosive player early on. Collins reminds me of Derek. He was 6-4 and a good defensive player. Smart guy not really fancy, but got the job done.

No worries Nix, I agree with the Derek Harper comparisons, although I think we would be talking about the Knicks version and not the Mavericks version, who was a very adept scorer and shooter. I think the Knicks Derek Harper is a pretty nice comparison and I think given enough playing time Mardy can be a perfect PG for the Eddy Curry dominated offense, especially if we make some changes where we get a top perimeter SG/SF, Mardy would be an excellent distributor on that type of team. If something happens and we change the offense, I don't think he will be nearly as effective, but I don't think we are going to have to worry about that for awhile.

YUP! The NY version of Derek at this point at least. Derek started his career not being so offensive, but then he took off and was scoring quite a bit.

5.7
9.6
12.2
16.0
17.0
17.3
18.0
19.7
17.7
18.2
Then when he came to NY, his scoring went down to 8.6, 11.5 and 14.0.

I'm not sure that Mardy would ever need to score that many points for us. I do believe he'll get better from the perimeter. He's already a solid passer, defender, rebounder and penetrator. He just needs to refine his FT shooting too, cuz I think he's going to be able to get to the line a bit.
NYKBocker
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4/8/2007  8:49 PM
Mardy looks like a taller cross between Charlie Ward and Greg Anthony. Defensive PGs with limited shooting skills that develops in year 2 or 3.
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