Posted by K22:

I'm entertained by Stephen A most of the time. I make a point to listen to his show directly after a Knicks game. But, truth be told, he can make a cheeseburger into a black/white issue.

Posted by EnySpree:

Channing is black right? How does this convo fit in his situation?

I'm not white either. I hate channing cuz he is a puss. Same goes for francis.

David lee isn't even white. He's gotta have a high yellow daddy or something.

Black and white has nothing to do with anything happening in this thread.

What we really need to do is find out what the **** is an insurgent. They seem to be the countries enemy, but they don't seem to have a uniform. Just a thought.

Posted by playa2:

Posted by djsunyc:

at some subconcious level, i think race plays a part in people's opinions on various things. for some it's very important, for others not that important. but i just think it is a factor at some level.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-27-2007 1:02 PM]

come on spit it out DJ.

Back in the day when Joe Louis was boxing everyone of the black race was rooting for him to knock out any white boxer because of race relations in america was so strained.

Now with basketball it's a similar thought process. The league and fan base is looking for the next great white hope in pro ball since most of the players on the court are black.

thoughts

In short, I agree with your statement (djsu's to some extent) and the premise of Queenie's question as one cause for Lee's popularity and lack of criticism. This is not to say that his "effort" and "work ethic" are not on their own representative of merit, but the association of those two words with whites versus descriptions like "lazy" and having an "attitude problem" (as some have used for some Knicks) have been used to describe blacks in America has been ocurring for a LONG time. This is also not to say that a black person/athlete cannot possess lower levels of motivation, but those words (based upon my own subjective observations and discussions with others) are far less used when describing white athletes who may display similar attributes.

As for denying race as having anything to do with this, there are a great deal of clinical psycholigical studies/evidence (like the work done by Janet Helms on White Identity Development, and studies on White Privilege) that shows that it is common for most white people, at some point in their life, to deny "racism" (which I am not simply using as a word to describe overt forms of prejudice against anyone of a different skin color, but also its existence in terms of power, economics, culture which appear systematically, and in institutions) when confronted with it or their own participation in its various forms.

This, by the way, does not mean all white people have to be "the devil" or are necessarily "bad" because one can be anti-racist and white (in my view), but I do believe that being self-aware, which involves close examination into one's own potential participation in all forms of racism is vital. Most of us, unfortunately due to the history of racism, may be dismissing potential examples of it too quickly, perhaps without enough information to pass such judgement in a reasonable manner.

For example...

While I may have some knowledge and interest in globalization, international business and finance, I certainly wouldn't consider myself an expert in that area. So, if I happen to like some hedge fund/investment for what may seem to a global fiance expert as arbitrary, I wouldn't expect my own opinion on its potential for growth to be construed as equally as valid as one who is more schooled in the area. If I simply dismissed this person's view, I may very well be missing out on key information. If I see some things wrong with their perspective based on something I am an expert in then I'd certainly feel a right to voice my point of view in defense, so to criticize potential examples of racism in the world seems fine, especially if one has some unique insight, but I would questionany complete dismissal of ideas based on one's own personal view of something one may not be an expert on and has been extensively studied.

In short, denying race off the cuff, as having anything to do with Lee's vehement support from many white fans does not seem like sufficient reason to convince one interested in getting to the bottom of Queenie's question.

[Edited by - PresIke on 03-27-2007 1:53 PM]

Posted by nixluva:

You can never ignore race in this world with our history. In every case of racial injustice it took the Government to come in and FORCE the populace to do the right thing and that says something about people. that said human nature sucks. Even in countries where there is really only one race they find ways to create division, witness northern and southern Ireland, India's cast system and the 800,000 dead in the fight between the Hutu and Tutsi tribes in Africa. In the case of Lee, yeah there's a bit of rooting and a bit of a pass by SOME people, but I think the VAST majority of fans just recognize good ball when they see it and real hustle when they see it. Lee has all of that and if Curry had that same level of effort we'd be in love with him too.

Posted by Queeniepop:

Very interesting debate on SAS today.

Started by saying the team is sorely missing JC and Lee for obvious reasons.

SAS said that a lot of callers have discussed Q, JC, etc. and when they will return. Francis and his ridiculousness. Marbs, Curry and all. BUT NO ONE EVER CALLS AND HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT LEE or Lee's injury.

Bottom line...Lee has no broken bone unlike Jamal (who played broken for 2-3 weeks) and SAS was not doubting that Lee was hurt (hi ankle sprain is an iffy injury; have to rely on what the injured player says), but he was simply stating that no one ever questions anything about Lee.

SAS says that it isnt that he is soft, necessarily but because the Knicks have a white fan base and because he is obviously white.

One caller who is white called in and said its true. He related what he was saying to Wayne Cherbet.

Now I am white and I don't really look at things this way, but mike (his radio partner) thought this was an interesting debate. Apparently, he had a log jam of callers about this as well.

What are your thoughts?

Posted by Elite:

this is BULL SHIT

We give DLEE a pass because HE PLAYS HARD. I would give Balkman a pass too, cuz he PLAYS HARD