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i'm convinced Marbury cannot be a centerpiece for a brighter 2008 season
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newyorknewyork
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3/27/2007  6:28 PM
I would not mind going a different direction from Marbury. But I know with his contract he is going to be here for the next 2 yrs. And thats just the way its going to be.
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Vmart
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3/27/2007  10:00 PM
I think you have to keep Marbury through next year same with Francis they both have 2 years remaining on their contracts and lets face it their value will be a lot higher after next year with the players being in their final year. Good for trade with teams looking to get under the cap. With that said I would send Francis home to Houston and not show up next year and play for the Knicks. No buyout that mofo doesn't desreve a buyout I fthere are no takers make him sit out another year.
misterearl
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3/30/2007  8:53 AM
- Bootleg POD Alert

>>Did anybody else catch the after-game interview with Steph? There was a remarkable insight into Curry's foul shooting woes/success. Commenting on the 11 for 14 run, Steph volunteered that he was going to Eddy and reminding him about mechanics each time; that otherwise Curry has a tendency to just throw the ball up for grabs.

(ex machina from the homeless shelter)

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misterearl
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3/30/2007  8:57 AM
Marbury does not need to be a "centerpiece" for 2008.

17 points and 9 assists would do just fine

Seven guys in double figures is the goal
once a knick always a knick
TMS
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3/30/2007  9:50 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Marbury does not need to be a "centerpiece" for 2008.

17 points and 9 assists would do just fine

Seven guys in double figures is the goal

if he's playing the way he did against the Cavs, distributing the ball & only looking for his shots when everything else breaks down, then i agree... but the problem is he has the bad habit of always trying to take the team upon his shoulders, when it's clear that he's incapable of leading his teams to any success going that route no matter how many points he scores... this is an ongoing pattern w/Marbs... & how often do you see 7 guys on the roster w/double figures in points during a game? do you really think that's a realistic goal going forward w/a scoring PG who isn't used to playing team oriented style basketball? Marbs is playing great this year, don't get me wrong, but i see this pattern repeating year after year, & still this team is mediocre at best... that tells me it's time to move in a different direction... & if you're committed to having Marbury be the centerpiece, then commit to the opposite direction & go hard & heavy after KG or JO, because those are the types of players Marbs needs to play next to in order to lead this team anyplace other than the limbo they're in right now IMO.
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Finestrg
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3/30/2007  9:54 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Marbury does not need to be a "centerpiece" for 2008.

17 points and 9 assists would do just fine

Seven guys in double figures is the goal

Agreed. And that's interesting about Marbs saying he's going to remind Curry about his mechanics each time he goes to the line. You can tell that when he concentrates his form looks really good at the line. All net. Then 15 FTs later he'll throw up an airball. Weird how weak-minded he appears to be sometimes....
djsunyc
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3/30/2007  10:03 AM
until we get a franchise STUD, this team needs a point guard...and one in the classic sense. as long as marbury is here, it delays the process. it's no secret i'm not a big fan of the guy as a player. i feel point guards should lead and should be able to control and run a team. marbury is a scorer. and very talented one at that, but he just doesn't bring things to the table a point real point guard should...especially to a team that really needs one. so, imho, marbury was never part of any big picture plan here b/c trying to incorporate him into the "rebuilding" plan would turn out fruitless. and so far, that's been the case.
misterearl
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3/30/2007  10:07 AM
Maturity Comes At Different Times For Everyone

>>if he's playing the way he did against the Cavs, distributing the ball & only looking for his shots when everything else breaks down, then i agree...

hold up TMS, a player with Marbury's skills is entitled to look for his shot the instant he feels in a position to get a good look at the hoop. It's not so simple as just taking the shot when everything else breaks down. Marbury is not a last resort, but a valuable piece in the context of an ofensive flow.


>>but the problem is he has the bad habit of always trying to take the team upon his shoulders, when it's clear that he's incapable of leading his teams to any success

That is patently false. I didn't see many complaints when he busted the two three's against Cleveland. Don't evaluate Marbury simply on his past. I would submit his game has evolved this season for the betterment of the team.

>>how often do you see 7 guys on the roster w/double figures in points during a game?

Not often, but it was stated as the GOAL. Balance in scoring output. Share the load dude.

>>do you really think that's a realistic goal going forward w/a scoring PG who isn't used to playing team oriented style basketball?

You damn skippy it's realistic and why so persistent with the same old tired "scoring point guard" labels? Curry has proven to be a dependable scorer, Isiah uncovers a scoring talent in the draft worthy of ten points per game, Crawford can get his 17, Frye can get his 14, Balkman gets his 12, and when Mister Double-Double David Lee, returns... he gets his 12 points.

Piece of cake.

There are no centerpieces

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-30-2007 10:20 AM]
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misterearl
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3/30/2007  10:08 AM
djsu - I have faith that one of the best point guards of all-time can spot a point guard in the rough.

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djsunyc
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3/30/2007  10:27 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Maturity Comes At Different Times For Everyone

>>if he's playing the way he did against the Cavs, distributing the ball & only looking for his shots when everything else breaks down, then i agree...

hold up TMS, a player with Marbury's skills is entitled to look for his shot the instant he feels in a position to get a good look at the hoop. It's not so simple as just taking the shot when everything else breaks down. Marbury is not a last resort, but a valuable piece in the context of an ofensive flow.


>>but the problem is he has the bad habit of always trying to take the team upon his shoulders, when it's clear that he's incapable of leading his teams to any success

That is patently false. I didn't see many complaints when he busted the two three's against Cleveland. Don't evaluate Marbury simply on his past. I would submit his game has evolved this season for the betterment of the team.

>>how often do you see 7 guys on the roster w/double figures in points during a game?

Not often, but it was stated as the GOAL. Balance in scoring output. Share the load dude.

>>do you really think that's a realistic goal going forward w/a scoring PG who isn't used to playing team oriented style basketball?

You damn skippy it's realistic and why so persistent with the same old tired "scoring point guard" labels? Curry has proven to be a dependable scorer, Isiah uncovers a scoring talent in the draft worthy of ten points per game, Crawford can get his 17, Frye can get his 14, Balkman gets his 12, and when Mister Double-Double David Lee, returns... he gets his 12 points.

Piece of cake.

There are no centerpieces

any player in the nba can be part of a winning team. everyone is talented so they're in the league for a reason. but it's all about how a team is constructed and their role in that construction.

relying on steph to be the point guard, so far, has not worked. but making him a scorer CAN work. that's why losing crawford hurts this team b/c he took some of the ball distribution responsibilities off of steph's shoulders.

i can't be critical of steph scoring b/c that's what he does best. but moving forward, keeping him as the point will not work here.

and earl - i hope so. he made a major investment in steph and felt that was his point guard. that hasn't worked out so far. then he brought in jamal to be a combo guard. can he run an entire offense or is he just able to get eddy the ball? then he passes on a marcus williams, despite what he could or could not be, he was still the most talented point guard in that draft. so evidence suggests isiah's team building concept in regards to the point guard position doesn't seem that encouraging.
TrueBlue
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3/30/2007  11:45 AM
DJ please post Marbury's record as a starter here?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
djsunyc
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3/30/2007  11:47 AM
03/04 - 47 games, 25-22
04/05 - 82 games, 33-49
05/06 - 60 games, 18-42
06/07 - 68 games, 30-38

total: 257 games, 106-151 for a 0.412 winning %

i'll do marbury fans a solid and subtract off the larry brown season
he's 88-109 for a 0.446 winning %

that was prior to the orlando game (i think).

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-30-2007 11:48 AM]
TMS
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3/30/2007  11:47 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Maturity Comes At Different Times For Everyone

>>if he's playing the way he did against the Cavs, distributing the ball & only looking for his shots when everything else breaks down, then i agree...

hold up TMS, a player with Marbury's skills is entitled to look for his shot the instant he feels in a position to get a good look at the hoop. It's not so simple as just taking the shot when everything else breaks down. Marbury is not a last resort, but a valuable piece in the context of an ofensive flow.


>>but the problem is he has the bad habit of always trying to take the team upon his shoulders, when it's clear that he's incapable of leading his teams to any success

That is patently false. I didn't see many complaints when he busted the two three's against Cleveland. Don't evaluate Marbury simply on his past. I would submit his game has evolved this season for the betterment of the team.

>>how often do you see 7 guys on the roster w/double figures in points during a game?

Not often, but it was stated as the GOAL. Balance in scoring output. Share the load dude.

>>do you really think that's a realistic goal going forward w/a scoring PG who isn't used to playing team oriented style basketball?

You damn skippy it's realistic and why so persistent with the same old tired "scoring point guard" labels? Curry has proven to be a dependable scorer, Isiah uncovers a scoring talent in the draft worthy of ten points per game, Crawford can get his 17, Frye can get his 14, Balkman gets his 12, and when Mister Double-Double David Lee, returns... he gets his 12 points.

Piece of cake.

There are no centerpieces

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-30-2007 10:20 AM]

& i didn't hear you calling Marbury a classic share the ball type PG when he was putting up 19 in the 1st half vs. the Magic & everyone else on the team was left there twiddling their thumbs the entire game & we ended up losing... that's the type of play i'm talking about here... i'm not denying that when Marbury is looking to dish the ball, that he's a positive force on this team... the problem is he's never sustained that style of play in his career for any prolonged stretch of time... he always reverts back to his more familiar Starbury style because that's what he's more comfortable with & what is more natural for him... & we can't have that if we want to ever seriously contend for a championship w/him as 1 of the main cogs in the offense.

like i said, if he would commit to playing a style of basketball conducive to getting his teammates involved in the game FIRST & FOREMOST before he looks to get his shots off, then i'm fine w/him being our PG to lead the team going into the future... but after watching him for 4 years now in a Knicks uniform, it's become clear that no matter how well he's playing, this team will never be much more than a mediocre squad... sorry, but i see no upside potential w/Marbury leading this team to ever seriously contend for a championship.

in games where Marbury's put up 30 or more pts in a game this season, the Knicks are 3W - 4L (mediocre)... in contrast, Marbury has had only 1 game this season where he put up double digits in assists - the Jamal Crawford 52 pt game where the Knicks blew out the Heat by 20... Marbury's line that night was 9 & 13... i'd take those types of #'s from my PG over Marbury's more customary 20 & 8 style of play every time w/o blinking... this is what i'm talking about here... we have guys who can score on this team... what we need is a ball distributor... unless Marbury takes on that mantle & sacrifices his scoring so that he can get his other teammates involved, he's never going to take this team anywhere but to the same old crap we've been witness to the past 4 years w/him as our PG... he did the job vs. the Cavs the other night, but will he continue to play that way every night is the question... be honest with yourself... do you think he's going to lead this team to a championship?
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nixluva
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3/30/2007  12:37 PM
TMS, I think the problem with your theory is that we don't have a team that has reliable offensive players. Steph passes the ball plenty. In fact he passed it too much early in the season. Steph's highest scoring qtr isn't the 1st or 2nd, but typically the 3rd or 4th. So I think you're WAY off on the idea that he doesn't look to get his teammates off early. HE ALWAYS has since he's been here. Look it up!

Now we have guys like Francis who passes up the shot or tries to dribble after being setup perfectly. Frye who has hesitated on many a shot. You know the rest of the guys aren't shooters. Q and jamal are out, but when they were playing they got more than enough shots. Steph has actually been taking fewer and fewer shots since he's gotten here. Only now, by necessity, has he started to take a lot of shots. Just remember that the rest of the team has to actually MAKE the shot for Steph to get an assist. The way Isiah's offense and even LB's for that matter, are set up is not for a lot of direct PG assisted baskets. There's NOTHING WRONG WITH HIM. How about we fix the real problems on this team? We need more consistent periemter shooting and we need Curry to become a better passer.

Steph is primarily a drive and kick guard. If used that way he can be very effective. He's also a very efficient scorer. If we had a healthy H2O you can bet that he would see the ball early and often. I think Steph get's a bad rap when it comes to this. When he 1st came here he avg'd 9.3 asts and that was with all the changes we had. Then the next year without H2O, jamal not being a high % shooter and when TT was having a HORRIBLE season, until the very end when he got hot. The only consistent scorer was KT. Again i remind you that to get assists guys have to make shots.

This year Steph has been VERY good and on both ends. I think if we can get him some help that he can play at a high level for quite a few more years. He has to have a break tho. His knees won't be able to take another year like this.
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3/30/2007  12:51 PM
nix, if u think that Marbs is taking on the scoring load only now out of necessity, you haven't been watching this team the past 4 years.

& again, i'm not knocking the job he's done this year... but it's clear that no matter how well he's playing, this team is still mediocre at best... we need to move in a different direction to see any real progress imo.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-30-2007 12:52 PM]
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misterearl
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3/30/2007  1:43 PM
TMS - I'm down with a different direction.

Just wanna know what direction you are suggesting the Knicks head.

G -

G -

F -

F - Lee

C -
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TMS
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3/30/2007  1:48 PM
earl, re-read my first post in this thread... i outlined what i think the direction should be for next season... there is no "ideal" scenario because this team has too many holes to fill at this point... what i'm looking for is building towards an identity, commit to a certain direction... if the plan is to build around Curry, then we need to bring in the players who complement his game, as i noted in the first post... if the plan is to build around Marbury, then we need to go the opposite route & forego the whole youth idea, because Marbury needs another stud allstar player at his side if he's ever going to make a serious run in the postseason... right now, this team has no direction, no identity & no definable style of play... that's not an ideal situation to groom a bright future for any franchise.
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nixluva
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3/30/2007  3:54 PM
Posted by TMS:

earl, re-read my first post in this thread... i outlined what i think the direction should be for next season... there is no "ideal" scenario because this team has too many holes to fill at this point... what i'm looking for is building towards an identity, commit to a certain direction... if the plan is to build around Curry, then we need to bring in the players who complement his game, as i noted in the first post... if the plan is to build around Marbury, then we need to go the opposite route & forego the whole youth idea, because Marbury needs another stud allstar player at his side if he's ever going to make a serious run in the postseason... right now, this team has no direction, no identity & no definable style of play... that's not an ideal situation to groom a bright future for any franchise.

I think it's clear that we're building around or with Curry. Steph for as long as he can play will be a piece of the puzzle, but the direction of the team is centered around Curry and the post. This is why we added Morris too. I think it's crystal clear that we need to add perimeter players who can pass and shoot. I don't agree that we have too many holes. We only really have 2 holes of major importance. Scoring SF/SG and backup PG. We're set at F/C I think we can expect that the young players we have will continue to improve as most do. Right now we have 3 rookies and 3 sophmores. We'll be adding at least one more rook this draft. There's still lots of upside on this team. We have so many guys that form the core of the team who are in the same age range.

Jamal - 27
QRich - 26
Curry - 24
Frye - 23
Lee - 23
Jared - 25
Balkman - 22
Collins - 22
Nate - 22
Morris - 21
This years draft pick ?
misterearl
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3/30/2007  4:36 PM
nixluva - well done on illustrating the yoot of the Knicks roster

Play Inside out

Hit the open man



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codeunknown
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3/30/2007  4:43 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by TMS:

earl, re-read my first post in this thread... i outlined what i think the direction should be for next season... there is no "ideal" scenario because this team has too many holes to fill at this point... what i'm looking for is building towards an identity, commit to a certain direction... if the plan is to build around Curry, then we need to bring in the players who complement his game, as i noted in the first post... if the plan is to build around Marbury, then we need to go the opposite route & forego the whole youth idea, because Marbury needs another stud allstar player at his side if he's ever going to make a serious run in the postseason... right now, this team has no direction, no identity & no definable style of play... that's not an ideal situation to groom a bright future for any franchise.

I think it's clear that we're building around or with Curry. Steph for as long as he can play will be a piece of the puzzle, but the direction of the team is centered around Curry and the post. This is why we added Morris too. I think it's crystal clear that we need to add perimeter players who can pass and shoot. I don't agree that we have too many holes. We only really have 2 holes of major importance. Scoring SF/SG and backup PG. We're set at F/C I think we can expect that the young players we have will continue to improve as most do. Right now we have 3 rookies and 3 sophmores. We'll be adding at least one more rook this draft. There's still lots of upside on this team. We have so many guys that form the core of the team who are in the same age range.

Jamal - 27
QRich - 26
Curry - 24
Frye - 23
Lee - 23
Jared - 25
Balkman - 22
Collins - 22
Nate - 22
Morris - 21
This years draft pick ?

Upside isn't merely a function of age.
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