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kam77
Posts: 27664
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3/20/2007  4:12 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Michael6835:

agreed with the regards to the good posts. But, many here say they are not satisfied unless they are contending for a title. Well excuse me, but what about the road to the title ? No team just shows up and makes it and thats it. We look at other teams that are succeeding now and point to them as what we should be, not pointing out the seasons of struggle that those teams had to go through. We look at other GMs and some of the roster they built and assume every GM could have had that opportunity. My biggest gripe with board here is that the people here are never happy enough. In 3 yrs, the team has been revamped and after a horrible year, we have bounced back with a good overall season. We surpassed our win total from the previous year and we are on track to make the playoffs. Not to mention, we are getting career numbers from Curry and Lee. Also worth mentioning, Marbury finally looks like he has found his niche. I maybe over exaggerating this teams abilities, but I don't spend every ounce of my day bashing them. This is just my opinion, it justs get redundant hearing the same old stories day after day.

I don't think people say that. I think they say that they aren't happy unless the team is on the road to a title and many feel that we are not. I think it's fair to say either way. I look at this team and I love the young talent but at the same time I think we need to definitely add a star to the mix or we are just going to be an okay team for years. Like the 2000 knicks. Good enough to provide excitement and false hopes for a title, but not actually good enough to contend for one. Now my question is how do we go about getting that player? Draft? Free Agency. No draft picks and over the cap makes that difficult. The reality is that the only way to acquire a player with that potential is to trade some of the young guys currently on the roster. But if you say that you are considered a Nets fan. I haven't really heard the "optimists" of the world ever answer that question. How do we obtain the star that puts us over the top? Or do they feel we don't need that player and everything is fine.


The ROAD to a title. Which NBA teams out there are on the Road to a title?

AND.. maybe the STAR we need is developing on our team right now.

OR a trade is always possible.


Teams that are building are on the road to a title. If you want to nitpick over a sentence feel free. Fans don't want to simply see progress. They want to see progress which they feel has a chance to let them compete for a title. They don't want to see progress which is not designed to go the distance but is instead there to fill the seats. Whether we are on a legitimate building path or not is up to the fan to say. Some fans say all the pieces are in place and we are on a path that will put us in title contention in a few years. Some say we can contend if Isiah makes the right moves from here on out instead of wasting moves on "superstars". And some feel we are doomed. All of these point of views are pretty legitimate and arguable. Do you not think so? Or is only your point of view legit?

Did you not notice i said a trade is possible?? I am trying to counter those have the one view of the Knicks definitively NOT being on that road you speak of. Understand?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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kam77
Posts: 27664
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Joined: 3/17/2004
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3/20/2007  4:17 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

nyk4ever: Do you ever notice that "optimists never really answer the question I asked in the first post? Never. They never say where that star is going to come from. But what they do(as you can see in Kam's post) is attack a meaningless sentence structure, or pick on a word to make me out to be unreasonable. Then they proceed to ask the exact same question that I asked in the first place. Is that star on the roster? and if not how do we trade for one?

The only logical answer is to get rid of some of the youth. But if you suggest that.............

Maybe trading Malik and JJ will get it done. This is what shapes peoples opinions of this team Kam77. Some people don't think that player is currently on the roster. That's fine. That in itself is not a bad thing. The question is how do we acquire this player? Any trade that includes some of the youth does not mean a person hates the yough it's just that they realize that is the only way to get somehting like this done.

So you did not read past the first sentence in my post? Because I listed where a star could come from.

(And you're the one complaining about attacking a sentence in a post! You just did it with mine and then didn't even read the rest where i siad we could have the star building within or though a trade.)

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TMS
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3/20/2007  4:28 PM
if the Knicks were willing to trade Curry & D Lee, i think a major trade could be made to acquire a star calibre player... but since they want to build around those guys, we need to focus on getting complementary players who can help to minimize their weaknesses & accentuate their strengths, & hopefully get lucky w/a sleeper pick or 2 in the coming years via the draft... smart use of the MLE is the main area where Isiah needs to improve... so far the Knicks have wasted their MLE the past several years... they need to make a value signing, or just forego using the MLE altogether... better to have an NBDL player playing for minimal dollars than a scrub NBA player making the full MLE imo.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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3/20/2007  5:05 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Bippity10:

nyk4ever: Do you ever notice that "optimists never really answer the question I asked in the first post? Never. They never say where that star is going to come from. But what they do(as you can see in Kam's post) is attack a meaningless sentence structure, or pick on a word to make me out to be unreasonable. Then they proceed to ask the exact same question that I asked in the first place. Is that star on the roster? and if not how do we trade for one?

The only logical answer is to get rid of some of the youth. But if you suggest that.............

Maybe trading Malik and JJ will get it done. This is what shapes peoples opinions of this team Kam77. Some people don't think that player is currently on the roster. That's fine. That in itself is not a bad thing. The question is how do we acquire this player? Any trade that includes some of the youth does not mean a person hates the yough it's just that they realize that is the only way to get somehting like this done.

So you did not read past the first sentence in my post? Because I listed where a star could come from.

(And you're the one complaining about attacking a sentence in a post! You just did it with mine and then didn't even read the rest where i siad we could have the star building within or though a trade.)

Kam77 that was my question: I asked is that star on our team. If you feel he is than that is fair. Tell me who. If he's not on the team how do we acquire him. I said if it's a trade that means we are going to have to trade some of our young guys. but my point is that everytime I mention somehting like this some half ****ed optimist explodes at this lousy "pessimist" that wants to get rid of the youth. When in reality we all know this is the only way to acquire a star if they are not on our team. They, like you, bristle at me and then restate what I just said.

Now again, if we are acquiring a superstar it either has to come from within or via trade. We are in agreement with that. With low draft picks it's possible but unlikely. Same with using the MLE. So it's obvious that we need to make a trade. So if we are in agreement in this, why did you respond to my original post(the Road to a title) post as if you were disagreeing. People of your ilk(optimists) do this all the time. It's fascinating to me.
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kam77
Posts: 27664
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Joined: 3/17/2004
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3/20/2007  7:36 PM
They, like you, bristle at me and then restate what I just said.

C'mon you know what i said, don't paint everyone with the same brush. I bristled at "Road to Title". As if its something on a map we can point to. I didn't bristle at the idea we might have to make a trade.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Bippity10
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3/21/2007  10:02 AM
It wasn't an idea, it was a question. Who do you trade? The obvious answer is some of the young guys. But try suggesting that on the site.

Road to a title can mean what you say. Or can be simply pointing out that that's what fans want to feel, which is the way I meant it. There is no direct road map, I am the biggest advocate for that. But if fans don't feel that management is making a legit effort to get them to contender level they will complain. Some fans feel that way, and whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant. It is a legitimate point of view.
I just hope that people will like me
nixluva
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3/21/2007  11:10 AM
Getting from the also ran group to the Title Contention group is EXTREMELY hard to do. There are teams ahead of us who have been doing it much longer and still haven't made it. Look at all the draft picks that a team like Chicago has had. They've let go of enough talent to have built a contender. The team they have now is pretty good, but do you feel they have a strong chance to get to the Finals? I don't get that feeling about them yet. We'll see what happens with the draft this year and whether we'll be giving them a lottery pick or not.

As far as the Knicks go. This team is coming from the bottom and it's an obvious longer road to the top from where we're coming from. We're just setup up building blocks and trying to establish a style of play. We're developing our young players and trying to get to the playoffs so they can get a taste of that experience. I'm a long time fan like many others here but i'm not letting that effect the way that I look at THIS particular group that's so full of guys that are at the beginning of their careers. Also guys that have been in the league for a while, but haven't yet put things all together. We're starting to see things begin to develop.
Bippity10
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3/21/2007  2:26 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Getting from the also ran group to the Title Contention group is EXTREMELY hard to do. There are teams ahead of us who have been doing it much longer and still haven't made it. Look at all the draft picks that a team like Chicago has had. They've let go of enough talent to have built a contender. The team they have now is pretty good, but do you feel they have a strong chance to get to the Finals? I don't get that feeling about them yet. We'll see what happens with the draft this year and whether we'll be giving them a lottery pick or not.

As far as the Knicks go. This team is coming from the bottom and it's an obvious longer road to the top from where we're coming from. We're just setup up building blocks and trying to establish a style of play. We're developing our young players and trying to get to the playoffs so they can get a taste of that experience. I'm a long time fan like many others here but i'm not letting that effect the way that I look at THIS particular group that's so full of guys that are at the beginning of their careers. Also guys that have been in the league for a while, but haven't yet put things all together. We're starting to see things begin to develop.

See contrary to what you think I actually agree with you. But I seem to have more of an understanding for people that don't think we are putting the pieces in place. I personally think we are going back and forth with what we want to do and that is why we have made so many poor moves. One minute we want the future. The next minute we are giving multi year contracts to 30 year old centers that are lazy. What philosophy is that? Passing on a PG in the draft because you have guys at the position that you feel can do the job is fine. No problem with that. But that's contradictory to the last move you made in which you acquired a 30 year old "PG" for a young SF.

I think fans are also pessimistic because the last two GM's have left us little flexibility. There are several ways to acquire great players. The MLE, the LLE, open free-agency, high draft picks and trading of marketable players. We seem to limit ourselves to the MLE and mid round draft picks. The rest seem to be out of our realm. Well that's not true. We have marketable young players. And that is probably our best way to improve our team. But nobody wants to discuss trading them. And if you do, you are a Nets fan.

I think JJ, JJ2 and of course all the people of the Mo Taylor/Rose era were acquired in order to make the playoffs and fill the seats and regardless of where we are today they have set us back. Think about it. JJ was acquired because we needed a center. That in itself is fine. You need a center you sign a center. But we signed him at a price in which he is now untradeable, which is a horrible decision and a complete waste of a move that had nothing to do with our future. It was done instead to create a splash.

Isiah has put some solid young players in place. But for him to build optimism around this team he has to show that every move he will make from now on is for the future. No more stopgaps. Every move is to build compliments to our big center. Whether that is a rookie in the draft or a 10 year vet does not matter. What matters is we make moves that make sense. And many of us will agree that there have been plenty of moves that have made no sense whatsoever. This is why people don't trust Isiah. It's one thing to acquire someone that makes sense but bombs. It's another thing to acquire guys that have no fit for this ball club.

Now Nixluva let me ask you a question. In order to improve this team do you think we may eventually have to trade one of the youngsters that plays a position occupied by someone else(say a Frye/Lee who will have to be a backup for their career)? Or do you think we can build a title contender with draft picks from 13-20 and the MLE?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 03-21-2007 2:29 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 03-21-2007 2:32 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
Contrary to popular belief

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