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extend kudos for isiah's relentless pursuit of mediocrity? (article)
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kam77
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3/14/2007  1:37 PM
Good post BlueSeats. I can certainly see this extension given by Dolan as a milestone for myself and a lot of other 'lovers'. No more free rides because you took over for Layden and had to juice the fan base with risky gambles on Marbury, Craw, and Curry (ie others cast-offs). Now it's on you Zeke to really show us something. The bar has been raised, and your next few moves had better pan out. You've run out of honeymoon time.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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MS
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3/14/2007  1:49 PM
yes a multi year extension this kid is on notice
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  1:57 PM
Posted by kam77:

Now it's on you Zeke to really show us something. The bar has been raised, and your next few moves had better pan out.

and this is where i guess i fall into the "hater" camp b/c that's all i really look at...it's the next few moves. and then i see what we have to actually make the next few moves and realize that the next few moves are going to pretty much be more of the same and not enough.

MLE's. mid to late 1st rounders (with another unprotected gone in 2010) and no expirings next season. and of course, no cap room.

it's not enough to make that big an impact.

this is our squad for the next 2 seasons (at least) so it's all on curry's shoulders.
nyk4ever
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3/14/2007  2:01 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by kam77:

Now it's on you Zeke to really show us something. The bar has been raised, and your next few moves had better pan out.

and this is where i guess i fall into the "hater" camp b/c that's all i really look at...it's the next few moves. and then i see what we have to actually make the next few moves and realize that the next few moves are going to pretty much be more of the same and not enough.

MLE's. mid to late 1st rounders (with another unprotected gone in 2010) and no expirings next season. and of course, no cap room.

it's not enough to make that big an impact.

this is our squad for the next 2 seasons (at least) so it's all on curry's shoulders.

Ditto.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
kam77
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3/14/2007  2:01 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by kam77:

Now it's on you Zeke to really show us something. The bar has been raised, and your next few moves had better pan out.

and this is where i guess i fall into the "hater" camp b/c that's all i really look at...it's the next few moves. and then i see what we have to actually make the next few moves and realize that the next few moves are going to pretty much be more of the same and not enough.

MLE's. mid to late 1st rounders (with another unprotected gone in 2010) and no expirings next season. and of course, no cap room.

it's not enough to make that big an impact.

this is our squad for the next 2 seasons (at least) so it's all on curry's shoulders.

So no trades is what you're saying?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
fishmike
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3/14/2007  2:07 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Why are people so resolute in their pessimism?...
for me its just history. Isiah's history is poor, so therefore I am pessimistic. He's made bad choices repeatedly, and it has cost us and slowed our rebuilding process. He's failed at his previous two jobs. Why are the same people resolute in optimism, when there is no basis for it?

Isiah has spent his way to a .450 basketball team. Thats grounds for optimism? I'm just calling it like I see it

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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3/14/2007  2:08 PM
Congrats to Isiah Thomas on getting the extension.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  2:10 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by kam77:

Now it's on you Zeke to really show us something. The bar has been raised, and your next few moves had better pan out.

and this is where i guess i fall into the "hater" camp b/c that's all i really look at...it's the next few moves. and then i see what we have to actually make the next few moves and realize that the next few moves are going to pretty much be more of the same and not enough.

MLE's. mid to late 1st rounders (with another unprotected gone in 2010) and no expirings next season. and of course, no cap room.

it's not enough to make that big an impact.

this is our squad for the next 2 seasons (at least) so it's all on curry's shoulders.

So no trades is what you're saying?

nothing of major impact. steph is our pg. jamal is our sg. curry is our center. we have 3 sf's on the roster (q, jj, balkman) and lee. who are we dealing and will whatever's coming back even start?
jaydh
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3/14/2007  2:29 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by kam77:

45 eh? Thats my pick for next years win total. If they reach that in a year (i admit, its an IF) then i would think there's still room for improvement.

well after all the moves and money spent, this franchise's prospects basically comes down to eddy curry.

why just eddy? lee is a non factor? who knows what balkman can eventually give us, and it is possible frye can improve as well. not to mention whatever other gems isiah can find in the draft.
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  2:31 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by kam77:

45 eh? Thats my pick for next years win total. If they reach that in a year (i admit, its an IF) then i would think there's still room for improvement.

well after all the moves and money spent, this franchise's prospects basically comes down to eddy curry.

why just eddy? lee is a non factor? who knows what balkman can eventually give us, and it is possible frye can improve as well. not to mention whatever other gems isiah can find in the draft.

eddy's the franchise player...it's on his shoulders.
sebstar
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3/14/2007  2:39 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by sebstar:


And the Knicks were just brimming with assets when he took over the job?


Yes, the ability to offer lottery draft picks, Euro prospects and cap space (via expiring contracts and a willingness to eat horrific contracts, like penny) are highly valuable assets to teams who do want to trim payroll and or rebuild (ie, Phoenix, Chicago)

An argument could probably be made that no GM in the history of the league has had the assets at his disposal to do what Isiah has done.

Wow. Interesting way at looking at things.

Prospects? We talking about Frank Williams, Vujanic, Lampe, Sweetney, ext. All were borderline prospects, if that. Where they at now? Milk carton.

Lottery picks? How many lottery picks did Zeke give up? I thought the only one was last year and we all know the circumstances behind that. He traded picks that were mid to late 1st rounders unless I am lapsing here.

To say he gave up the most assets out of any GM is just a bizarre statement when taking into account the roster that was assembled under Layden. He had SOME assets, (expiring contracts, absorb money) but nowhere near the level you describe. He had to make moves, to say otherwise would be naive at best; his margin for error was slim, and he made mistakes obviously. Hence we're still average at best.

This is his team and his organization now, so I am not going to play the retroactive blame game and throw everything on Layden's lap, but a little balance and perspective on Zeke's tenure here would be appreciated.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
MS
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3/14/2007  2:51 PM
He had plenty of expiring deals to deliever talent; the euros were looked at favorably at the time especially Lampe even though he is out of the leage now, no one called Williams a great prospect either, however he is a better alternative to having players like francis and crawford eating up cap .....

were are all these gems isiah has found us collins, frye, nate? Right now lee is a true gem, balkman is a huge question mark

do you know how hard to sign players for 5 million and have 0 teams that want them? I think you would have gotten balance, but trading for francis or making deals for injured players to acquire draft picks is far from genius.

He gave away a pick to get marbury after taking 45 million to get him, that pick turned out to be josh or jr. smith, he gave away a pick last year for curry which he didn't have to do, he could have top 3 protected it, paxson would have taken the deal, isiah lies all the time. he tries to justify himself
sebstar
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3/14/2007  2:52 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by sebstar:

Why are people so resolute in their pessimism?...
for me its just history. Isiah's history is poor, so therefore I am pessimistic. He's made bad choices repeatedly, and it has cost us and slowed our rebuilding process. He's failed at his previous two jobs. Why are the same people resolute in optimism, when there is no basis for it?

Isiah has spent his way to a .450 basketball team. Thats grounds for optimism? I'm just calling it like I see it

Shame you feel that way. BTW, I wouldnt classify his "two previous jobs" as failures. Runaway success no, but failure is a bit strong.

I think there is evidence to support both claims (pessimism or optimism), just depends on which way you want to go. I would say cautiously optimistic for me. I guess I just see the other view as counterproductive.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
franco12
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3/14/2007  3:05 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by sebstar:

Why are people so resolute in their pessimism?...
for me its just history. Isiah's history is poor, so therefore I am pessimistic. He's made bad choices repeatedly, and it has cost us and slowed our rebuilding process. He's failed at his previous two jobs. Why are the same people resolute in optimism, when there is no basis for it?

Isiah has spent his way to a .450 basketball team. Thats grounds for optimism? I'm just calling it like I see it

Shame you feel that way. BTW, I wouldnt classify his "two previous jobs" as failures. Runaway success no, but failure is a bit strong.

I think there is evidence to support both claims (pessimism or optimism), just depends on which way you want to go. I would say cautiously optimistic for me. I guess I just see the other view as counterproductive.

I think most are being objective in their criticism that this team has very little future beyond being an 8 seed wanna be for the next few years.

Now- at some point, blame needs to be assigned the man in charge, sir dolan.

Neither might have been as bad by themselves, but together they have been a perfect storm.

Answer me this one question- is there a player on the current squad who will turn into the kind of all star that can lead their team to the NBA Finals? And if there isn't such a player, how exactly do you see Isiah getting them?
Bippity10
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3/14/2007  4:18 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by kam77:

45 eh? Thats my pick for next years win total. If they reach that in a year (i admit, its an IF) then i would think there's still room for improvement.

well after all the moves and money spent, this franchise's prospects basically comes down to eddy curry.

Bingo. Our future lies on his shoulders. If his career takes off, so do we. If he maintains mediocrity, so do we.
I just hope that people will like me
kam77
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3/14/2007  4:19 PM
I think most are being objective in their criticism that this team has very little future beyond being an 8 seed wanna be for the next few years.

received wisdom, passed on thru these forums as if it held a kernel of truth. far from objective, rather, an a priori judgement espoused to justify a current attitude.

With these fans, you're either a Chamionship team or you offer "very little future beyond being an 8 seed". The journey, the bumps and growing pains along the way. They don't want to endure any of that.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  4:23 PM
Posted by kam77:
The journey, the bumps and growing pains along the way. They don't want to endure any of that.

that sounds like some judgment espoused to justify a current attitude. :)

it's only a journey if you think we're actually going someplace.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-14-2007 4:23 PM]
misterearl
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3/14/2007  4:25 PM
djsu - you must think the Knicks are going someplace... otherwise why would you drop your hard-earned chedda on tickets?

Then again, are your squats in 404 comped via some nefarious hook-up?

hmmmm....
once a knick always a knick
nyk4ever
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3/14/2007  4:27 PM
Posted by kam77:
I think most are being objective in their criticism that this team has very little future beyond being an 8 seed wanna be for the next few years.

received wisdom, passed on thru these forums as if it held a kernel of truth. far from objective, rather, an a priori judgement espoused to justify a current attitude.

I find it funny that you are saying the people who think this team can't be more than 8th seed are not being objective, when of course you can't prove that they WILL be anything more than 8th seed yourself. Oh but of course, thats just a recieved wisdom.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
kam77
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3/14/2007  4:27 PM
and whats funny is i'm on the bus on this journey and there are all these noisy people telling the bus driver how to drive cuz they don't like where the journey is going.

no man, just get off at the next stop. there isn't anything wrong with putting the knicks down for a while if its causing you this much grief.

others choose to ride it out so far. the owner just made sure the bus is gonna keep going down this path so all this agita is just gonna cause you hearburn.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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extend kudos for isiah's relentless pursuit of mediocrity? (article)
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