If LB had done a good job we wouldn't have needed the new coach.

Agreed. If the players played for Larry with the same heart they played for Isiah with, they probably wouldn't have needed a new coach either.

What will it take for you to change your personal belief on LB?

Nothing. But I can always change my belief in what these players are soft weak minded individuals if

1: Isiah stops going to the press with lame pre-game pre-excuses.
2: These players start playing consistent basketball
3: They start to take responsibility for what the team is/has become
4: They stop with the excuses as to why they play poorly
5: They stop allowing Isiah to make pre-game pre-excuses

Now they have been much much better since around the all-star break. But those 5 things are still things they have to improve on.

Do that over the course of a season and I'll buy.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by joec32033:

Even 6-11 to start was better. And I think getting better the very next season (This one) is instantly.

Everyone even guys that preferred LB figured this team was going to be better instantly. We won 23 games last year and not one person expected to win that this year. As a matter of fact, most people expected at least 33-35 wins. A 10-12 game improvement.

And all it took was for the coach to not quit on them before the ink was dry on his contract...

I don't have the time to really search, but didn't Marbury say something along the lines of if LB's system isn't going to work he was just going to play as Starbury? In training camp?

What was the streamlining? Injuries? I might agree with that! Like Kenny Smith said: Injuries on this team can be a positive thing because it allows the healthy players to find a groove with playing time. Why didn't that work last year?

That's simple. Larry had to work with high paid vets along the same talent level-who were unhappy if they didn't play(while trying to incorporate the three Isiah first round picks) while Isiah is working with mostly rooks and 2nd year players who haven't one anything to warrant them the privelage of complaining about playing time.

A) if even the Brown supporters knew the team would be better after he left, why were they supporting him?

B) Marbury didn't make the famous Starbury quote until the end of November, after two months of working with Brown and still being confused as to what Brown wanted. What did Brown want? Who was the no. 1 option on the team supposed to be if it wasn't Marbury? he didn't establish Curry like Isiah has. What did Brown want? Notice how easy it was for Zeke to establish Curry as the no.1 option and how Marbury has been saying all the right things this year?

C) what high price veterans has Zeke had to not deal with that Brown had to deal with? Mo Taylor? That's the difference? Mo Taylor? wow. Don't say Jalen Rose, because Brown pleaded and begged for Jalen Rose, said he was the most important player on the team after Jalen's first game, then benched him for the rest of the season.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 03-11-2007 8:03 PM]

Sorry this degenerated into the LB bit. I am not looking to hijack the thread so I'm not responding to LB replies in this thread. I'm over him, he's over. whatever. If you guys want to start the LB thing in another thread, I'll be happy to argue in due time (or until I get tired y'all), but I really don't wanna hijack this thread. I only responded to one person's comment on LB.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by joec32033:

Now they have been much much better since around the all-star break. But those 5 things are still things they have to improve on.

Do that over the course of a season and I'll buy.

they're 20-17 since the brawl. that's better than Washington, Chicago, Indiana, Orlando, New Jersey and Cleveland over that time frame. They've been playing about two games off the pace of the Raptors since then, who I believe are something like 22-15 in their last 37 games.

They are playing great. I agree. Do it over the course of a full season(or at least ride it out into the end of this season) and I'll fully buy into this program Zeke is pushing. They are still losing to teams they should win against and individual efforts are still a little up and down.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by joec32033:

Now they have been much much better since around the all-star break. But those 5 things are still things they have to improve on.

Do that over the course of a season and I'll buy.

they're 20-17 since the brawl. that's better than Washington, Chicago, Indiana, Orlando, New Jersey and Cleveland over that time frame. They've been playing about two games off the pace of the Raptors since then, who I believe are something like 22-15 in their last 37 games.

They are playing great. I agree. Do it over the course of a full season(or at least ride it out into the end of this season) and I'll fully buy into this program Zeke is pushing. They are still losing to teams they should win against and individual efforts are still a little up and down.

This is year number one. There is a pattern there since they have been improving every month since November. Educated Guess: They will do it over the course of the season in year number 2. I'm glad to see you be a bit more optimistic. Atleast you are ready to wait and see how next season pans out. I agree with you about that. I'll buy into Zeke's plan if this team can play above .500 for an entire year.

They key for year #2: EDDY'S DEFENSE!

I always had a wait and see approach Silver. It's just that I am/was not happy with the direction the team was going in as in how individual player performed. My expectations were also alot higher for some guys(Curry) than others(Nate). I still see major issues with this team. Marbury's health and his long term value to the franchise is my main thing. He doesn't look like he is going to last much longer, IMO.

Posted by joec32033:

I always had a wait and see approach Silver. It's just that I am/was not happy with the direction the team was going in as in how individual player performed. My expectations were also alot higher for some guys(Curry) than others(Nate). I still see major issues with this team. Marbury's health and his long term value to the franchise is my main thing. He doesn't look like he is going to last much longer, IMO.

I've never quite understood why people seem to think Steph won't last much longer. He's freakin younger than guys like Nash and Kidd and they're still productive. He's already shown that he can help this team even when he's not the focus of the offense. He'll only need to pick his spots over the next few years, but he'll still be able to shoot and pass. He may lose a step eventually, but he still has PLENTY of quickness. It's actually a farce that you have to have blazing speed in order to be an efffective penetrator. While that helps, it's more important to use the element of surprise. Good timing and deception. Changing speeds. Hesistation moves etc. He's strong and that won't change, so he'll still be able to make strong moves. I'm in my 40's and I still have enough of a burst to get by defenders when I use my head. It's more than just raw speed.

I think we really won't have anything to worry about so long as we develop Collins and allow him to help carry the PG load. Nate may also develop better skills in that regard and we still have Jamal who can certainly bring the ball up. I'm not the least bit concerned about Steph. We just need to continue to develop the players we have and add some much needed help in the areas we're weak. This playoff run should help us to get a better idea of what this team REALLY can and can't do and what we need.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by joec32033:

I always had a wait and see approach Silver. It's just that I am/was not happy with the direction the team was going in as in how individual player performed. My expectations were also alot higher for some guys(Curry) than others(Nate). I still see major issues with this team. Marbury's health and his long term value to the franchise is my main thing. He doesn't look like he is going to last much longer, IMO.

I've never quite understood why people seem to think Steph won't last much longer. He's freakin younger than guys like Nash and Kidd and they're still productive. He's already shown that he can help this team even when he's not the focus of the offense. He'll only need to pick his spots over the next few years, but he'll still be able to shoot and pass. He may lose a step eventually, but he still has PLENTY of quickness. It's actually a farce that you have to have blazing speed in order to be an efffective penetrator. While that helps, it's more important to use the element of surprise. Good timing and deception. Changing speeds. Hesistation moves etc. He's strong and that won't change, so he'll still be able to make strong moves. I'm in my 40's and I still have enough of a burst to get by defenders when I use my head. It's more than just raw speed.

I think we really won't have anything to worry about so long as we develop Collins and allow him to help carry the PG load. Nate may also develop better skills in that regard and we still have Jamal who can certainly bring the ball up. I'm not the least bit concerned about Steph. We just need to continue to develop the players we have and add some much needed help in the areas we're weak. This playoff run should help us to get a better idea of what this team REALLY can and can't do and what we need.

Has a player ever played through constant pain for over 5 years? My only concern is his injury history. We can not have two main cogs on our team constantly sitting out games or becoming 60-65 game guys per season(Q is the other guy on this team). I'm fine with keeping Marbury. Fine with making him play, but I sure as hell would feel alot safer if we had a player capable of replacing him at the point if something does happen(and unless Isiah gives Crawford some major run at the point-which he isn't going to do- he has to bring someone in.