Posted by Elite:

If i could choose one of those players to have on my team it would be Lee I think most coaches would agree wit me

I think Gordon would get picked over lee- Gordon is a skill player and lethal in the vein of Kobe. How many times has Gordon single handedly defeated us?

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

If Lee is only coming off the bench, behind Jerome James, because Isiah wants some kind of credit then I hope like hell that Barbosa wins it.

wow, you'd actually rather begrudge a good kid like D Lee getting league recognition for the job he's done this year just to spite Isiah?

No, because Lee would be getting it for the wrong reasons. Isiah is already on record for requesting credit if Lee wins the award. He's rigging Lee's eligibility for that reason. Why else would Lee be coming off the bench behind less deserving players? Is Lee really a 6th Man if he's replacing James after 4 minutes and then playing most of the game from that point out, including starting the second half? It's the letter of the law vs the spirit.

Lee deserves all the recognition in the world for being a very good rebounder and giving great effort every night but like I said, IF he's only eligible for the 6th Man Award because Isiah is looking to take credit for it, then I hope he doesn't get it.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

If Lee is only coming off the bench, behind Jerome James, because Isiah wants some kind of credit then I hope like hell that Barbosa wins it.

wow, you'd actually rather begrudge a good kid like D Lee getting league recognition for the job he's done this year just to spite Isiah?

No, because Lee would be getting it for the wrong reasons. Isiah is already on record for requesting credit if Lee wins the award. He's rigging Lee's eligibility for that reason. Why else would Lee be coming off the bench behind less deserving players? Is Lee really a 6th Man if he's replacing James after 4 minutes and then playing most of the game from that point out, including starting the second half? It's the letter of the law vs the spirit.

Lee deserves all the recognition in the world for being a very good rebounder and giving great effort every night but like I said, IF he's only eligible for the 6th Man Award because Isiah is looking to take credit for it, then I hope he doesn't get it.

I have to agree with Isles, just for the sake of argument(and I am using a more exaggerated case to emphasize the point), what if a player like say, Ron Artest, was the guy instead of Lee. Sacramento bought him in, and he is doing very well, but not as great as they thought while starting. Let's assume that the situation regarding management is the same as the Knicks current situation.

Now Artest comes in and he isn't playing like the best all-around player in the league. In order to justify getting Artest and to say he was the one behind it, he coach brings Artest off the bench behind a guy like John Salmons-a guy who probably isn't really earning his MLE contract. Well he starts Salmons for a couple of minutes then puts Artest in for the rest of the game. Sure, Artest was "technically the sixth man", but he really wasn't.

I don't speak for Isles but I personally would prefer for Lee to win the award clean as opposed to being set up to win the award.

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

If Lee is only coming off the bench, behind Jerome James, because Isiah wants some kind of credit then I hope like hell that Barbosa wins it.

wow, you'd actually rather begrudge a good kid like D Lee getting league recognition for the job he's done this year just to spite Isiah?

No, because Lee would be getting it for the wrong reasons. Isiah is already on record for requesting credit if Lee wins the award. He's rigging Lee's eligibility for that reason. Why else would Lee be coming off the bench behind less deserving players? Is Lee really a 6th Man if he's replacing James after 4 minutes and then playing most of the game from that point out, including starting the second half? It's the letter of the law vs the spirit.

Lee deserves all the recognition in the world for being a very good rebounder and giving great effort every night but like I said, IF he's only eligible for the 6th Man Award because Isiah is looking to take credit for it, then I hope he doesn't get it.

I have to agree with Isles, just for the sake of argument(and I am using a more exaggerated case to emphasize the point), what if a player like say, Ron Artest, was the guy instead of Lee. Sacramento bought him in, and he is doing very well, but not as great as they thought while starting. Let's assume that the situation regarding management is the same as the Knicks current situation.

Now Artest comes in and he isn't playing like the best all-around player in the league. In order to justify getting Artest and to say he was the one behind it, he coach brings Artest off the bench behind a guy like John Salmons-a guy who probably isn't really earning his MLE contract. Well he starts Salmons for a couple of minutes then puts Artest in for the rest of the game. Sure, Artest was "technically the sixth man", but he really wasn't.

I don't speak for Isles but I personally would prefer for Lee to win the award clean as opposed to being set up to win the award.

Exactly. I have absolutely nothing against Lee winning the award if that were truly his role and he excelled at it. I would root for him over other just as deserving players. But if he's only in that role because the coach/GM is looking to get him an award so it reflects well on him, then I'd much rather he didn't get it.

sorry, i don't see how winning an award could possibly be a loss-loss situation for Lee... he's worked his butt off this season, & if he's recognized for playing a role well, he deserves every accolade he can get out of it IMO... he deserves to be starting, but so have other 6th men award winners in the past... Kevin McHale won the award in '84 & '85 & he easily deserved to be starting on those Celtic teams over Cedric Maxwell... i don't hear anyone begrudging him of those accolades over it.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-02-2007 1:10 PM]

in fact, i think D Lee is the closest player i've seen to Kevin McHale in a long time... he has the same type of intelligence, grit, energy & hustle that McHale played the game with... McHale was a much more polished scorer, but i think Lee will also develop that part of his game... Lee is already a better rebounder than McHale ever was also... he's destined for stardom in this league, mark my words... some great players have started their careers by being recognized as great 6th men off the bench, & i don't see why it would be a bad thing for Lee to follow in those footsteps.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-02-2007 1:21 PM]

w/o Lee who provides rebounding & hustle off the bench? i'm not defending Isiah for not starting Lee btw, let's get that straight... you know how many times i've posted that D Lee deserves to start... but to say you wouldn't want Lee to win the award just to spite Isiah is pretty silly, you have to admit.

Posted by TMS:

w/o Lee who provides rebounding & hustle off the bench? i'm not defending Isiah for not starting Lee btw, let's get that straight... you know how many times i've posted that D Lee deserves to start... but to say you wouldn't want Lee to win the award just to spite Isiah is pretty silly, you have to admit.

Well it could be Balkman but Isiah doesn't play him.

It's not necessarily to spite Isiah but Lee wouldn't be winning it in the spirit of the award.

If you feel so strongly that Lee deserves and should be starting then do you think that he's eligible for the award by the spirit of it?

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by TMS:

w/o Lee who provides rebounding & hustle off the bench? i'm not defending Isiah for not starting Lee btw, let's get that straight... you know how many times i've posted that D Lee deserves to start... but to say you wouldn't want Lee to win the award just to spite Isiah is pretty silly, you have to admit.

Well it could be Balkman but Isiah doesn't play him.

It's not necessarily to spite Isiah but Lee wouldn't be winning it in the spirit of the award.

If you feel so strongly that Lee deserves and should be starting then do you think that he's eligible for the award by the spirit of it?

the spirit of the award is awarding who ever fills the role of 6th man the best that year... right now i happen to think it should go to Barbosa, but Lee is right there in the discussion, & he's done a great job in that role this year for the Knicks... he hasn't been coming off the bench after the 1st 2 minutes all year long btw... that retarded Jerome James experiment has only been in effect the past 3 weeks or so... D Lee earned an increasing role on this team this year by his play alone, & for that he would deserve any award he's given IMO.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by TMS:

w/o Lee who provides rebounding & hustle off the bench? i'm not defending Isiah for not starting Lee btw, let's get that straight... you know how many times i've posted that D Lee deserves to start... but to say you wouldn't want Lee to win the award just to spite Isiah is pretty silly, you have to admit.

Well it could be Balkman but Isiah doesn't play him.

It's not necessarily to spite Isiah but Lee wouldn't be winning it in the spirit of the award.

If you feel so strongly that Lee deserves and should be starting then do you think that he's eligible for the award by the spirit of it?

the spirit of the award is awarding who ever fills the role of 6th man the best that year... right now i happen to think it should go to Barbosa, but Lee is right there in the discussion, & he's done a great job in that role this year for the Knicks... he hasn't been coming off the bench after the 1st 2 minutes all year long btw... that retarded Jerome James experiment has only been in effect the past 3 weeks or so... D Lee earned an increasing role on this team this year by his play alone, & for that he would deserve any award he's given IMO.

So if for some insane reason Phil Jackson told Kobe to start the game off the bench and come in after 1 minute, then you'd think that he'd deserve to be the 6th Man of the Year?

Those games are helping to keep Lee's starts low enough to be eligible for the award.

[Edited by - islesfan on 03-02-2007 1:42 PM]

Posted by islesfan:

So if for some insane reason Phil Jackson told Kobe to start the game off the bench and come in after 1 minute, then you'd think that he'd deserve to be the 6th Man of the Year?

depends on which Kobe you're talking about... the rookie or sophomore season Kobe that started his career coming off the bench? sure, i would say he deserved it... not today's Kobe obviously because he's already an established star in this league... D Lee has yet to make that type of name for himself, so if he has to do it as a 6th man, i say all power to him... i have a problem w/Isiah bringing him off the bench, but that has nothing to do w/why i wouldn't begrudge Lee for winning this award... he would've earned it IMO.