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Renaldo Balkman vs Marcus Williams re-visited
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TMS
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2/28/2007  3:41 PM
this topic is like that soapy mildew you get on your shower curtains... you clean it away & think it's gone for good, but eventually it always ends up back on your shower curtains.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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djsunyc
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2/28/2007  3:41 PM
Posted by TMS:

this topic is like that soapy mildew you get on your shower curtains... you clean it away & think it's gone for good, but eventually it always ends up back on your shower curtains.

or that rash just south of the mason/dixon line.
playa2
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2/28/2007  4:03 PM
I hope you guys read the whole post not just the title thread.

What happens when steph gets tendinitis in his knee ?

Crawford couldn't run the team that well as the knicks on offense was in dissaray.

Mardy is the only other true pg on the roster.

Marcus williams and Curry would have meshed easily from watching some nets games this season.

Who runs the pg position for the last stretch of the season when steph gets winded....Nate robinson ?

WHO IS MARDY COLLINS, does Isiah have confidence in him to play important minutes?

Have isiah and the gang thrown the season away because of #11 injury?

How many times have we bragged on the knicks depth at all the positions?

We all know nate's a shooting guard in a pg body.

Wow, many NewYorkers will be looking on just to see our new found secret weapon on the knicks roster since Crawfish is outfor the yr.

Get ya popcorn ready, this is gonna be some show!

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
arkrud
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2/28/2007  4:26 PM
Posted by playa2:

I hope you guys read the whole post not just the title thread.

What happens when steph gets tendinitis in his knee ?

Crawford couldn't run the team that well as the knicks on offense was in dissaray.

Mardy is the only other true pg on the roster.

Marcus williams and Curry would have meshed easily from watching some nets games this season.

Who runs the pg position for the last stretch of the season when steph gets winded....Nate robinson ?

WHO IS MARDY COLLINS, does Isiah have confidence in him to play important minutes?

Have isiah and the gang thrown the season away because of #11 injury?

How many times have we bragged on the knicks depth at all the positions?

We all know nate's a shooting guard in a pg body.

Wow, many NewYorkers will be looking on just to see our new found secret weapon on the knicks roster since Crawfish is outfor the yr.

Get ya popcorn ready, this is gonna be some show!

i am in...
LOL

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
playa2
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2/28/2007  4:49 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by playa2:

I hope you guys read the whole post not just the title thread.

What happens when steph gets tendinitis in his knee ?

Crawford couldn't run the team that well as the knicks on offense was in dissaray.

Mardy is the only other true pg on the roster.

Marcus williams and Curry would have meshed easily from watching some nets games this season.

Who runs the pg position for the last stretch of the season when steph gets winded....Nate robinson ?

WHO IS MARDY COLLINS, does Isiah have confidence in him to play important minutes?

Have isiah and the gang thrown the season away because of #11 injury?

How many times have we bragged on the knicks depth at all the positions?

We all know nate's a shooting guard in a pg body.

Wow, many NewYorkers will be looking on just to see our new found secret weapon on the knicks roster since Crawfish is outfor the yr.

Get ya popcorn ready, this is gonna be some show!

i am in...
LOL

This just might be one of those knock down drag out type of games.

Pierce and Jefferson will be tuff, but the pg position might be the one that causes us the most problems.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
babyKnicks
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2/28/2007  6:09 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Nate has no business playing PG. He has no clue how to run a team. He's more interested in his own offense. Marcus Williams isn't a SG but he's had to play that position because they want him to get some playing time with Kidd taking a vast majority of the minutes at PG. Judging him as a SG is unfair.

I agree, he's an SG if I ever seen one.

[Edited by - babyknicks on 02-28-2007 6:10 PM]
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
nixluva
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2/28/2007  6:22 PM
Isiah in my mind did the right thing taking Balkman and Collins. Collins in particular gives us a bigger guard and I can see him fitting in nicely down the line. Once Francis is totally out of the picture which looks to be happening soon enough, then the drafting of Collins makes sense. We needed a guard who awas known for being a strong defender and a solid passer. M. Williams is a real talent, but since we already have guards who can score, his particular game isn't really what we needed. He doesn't stop anyone.
playa2
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2/28/2007  6:46 PM
We need a guard who gets everybody involved that's what we need. Marcus Williams from what I have seen of him this yr does just that.

When the knicks can't generate enough offense and guys are standing around looking at each other go one on one with players who aren't known for it.

Think about Marcus!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TMS
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2/28/2007  6:56 PM
3 assists & just about 2 TO's in 17 minutes isn't what i call getting your teammates involved... he's taken alot of shots in comparison to the time he's been on the floor... 7 attempts per game in 17 minutes... that's more shots per minute than Jamal averages per game... J Kidd has been the orchestrator for that team... anyone who is basing all these assumptions about Marcus being a great orchestrator based on how he's played this year is really basing their opinions on what he did at UConn... he hasn't been a great orchestrator for the Nets this year... he's been more of a shooting PG that can't guard anyone worth a lick... wow, we really need more of those on this team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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2/28/2007  7:00 PM
Posted by TMS:

3 assists & just about 2 TO's in 17 minutes isn't what i call getting your teammates involved... he's taken alot of shots in comparison to the time he's been on the floor... 7 attempts per game in 17 minutes... that's more shots per minute than Jamal averages per game... J Kidd has been the orchestrator for that team... anyone who is basing all these assumptions about Marcus being a great orchestrator based on how he's played this year is really basing their opinions on what he did at UConn... he hasn't been a great orchestrator for the Nets this year... he's been more of a shooting PG that can't guard anyone worth a lick... wow, we really need more of those on this team.

^^^Zackly. Like I said above, he is the perfect replacement for JC! And like JC, he throws a nice alley-oop!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
playa2
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2/28/2007  8:22 PM
Look how stale this offense is. steph can't play 48 min

Mardy is a guy you substitute in when you need a defensive guard in the game.

He can't do what williams can do.

Balkman can't score sooooooooo.....

[Edited by - playa2 on 02-28-2007 20:54]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Panos
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2/28/2007  10:13 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Isiah in my mind did the right thing taking Balkman and Collins. Collins in particular gives us a bigger guard and I can see him fitting in nicely down the line. Once Francis is totally out of the picture which looks to be happening soon enough, then the drafting of Collins makes sense. We needed a guard who awas known for being a strong defender and a solid passer. M. Williams is a real talent, but since we already have guards who can score, his particular game isn't really what we needed. He doesn't stop anyone.

Excuse me, when IT drafted this summer wasn't he claiming that Francis would be an integral part of this team, in fact STARTING? He wasn't drafting with the mindset that Francis would be gone.



oohah
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2/28/2007  10:31 PM
Posted by playa2:

Look how stale this offense is. steph can't play 48 min

Mardy is a guy you substitute in when you need a defensive guard in the game.

He can't do what williams can do.

Balkman can't score sooooooooo.....

[Edited by - playa2 on 02-28-2007 20:54]

Was the problem with this game scoring or defense? If it was defense, which I think it was, then Williams would have hurt, not helped.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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3/1/2007  11:15 AM
Posted by TMS:

3 assists & just about 2 TO's in 17 minutes isn't what i call getting your teammates involved... he's taken alot of shots in comparison to the time he's been on the floor... 7 attempts per game in 17 minutes... that's more shots per minute than Jamal averages per game... J Kidd has been the orchestrator for that team... anyone who is basing all these assumptions about Marcus being a great orchestrator based on how he's played this year is really basing their opinions on what he did at UConn... he hasn't been a great orchestrator for the Nets this year... he's been more of a shooting PG that can't guard anyone worth a lick... wow, we really need more of those on this team.

LB asked his PG to take less shots in his offense. Isiah has done the same. Is it possible that Frank has asked Marcus to take more shots because he already has Kidd playing the point? Or is it that only LB and Isiah determine the roles for their players.

I don't know how good Marcus will be but I can guarantee you that this guy will be very good at running whatever offense that whatever coach asks him to run. The guy has been pass first his entire life, let's not base his career on his rookie year sample. It's as unfair to do that for him as it is for Balkamn. But in the end it doesn't matter. We have Balkman. Balkman will be a solid player. It was a good pick. but like I said when the draft pick was made that with Eddie as our franchise player you have to eventually pick a PG. You cannot base Eddies future on the current backcourt because they will not be here when he hits his prime. Eventually he needs a runningmate. We passed on one opportunity to get one. Let's just hope we don't wait 10 years to get him one like we did in getting a jumpshooter for Pat. Forget the roster right now. Forget the record right now. Build a team. Get this guy someone who can feed him the ball.

Now again, I have no problem with Balkman. Your job is to get a player in the draft. Sometimes you get the best one available, most of the times you don't. The jury is still out on this one and Isiah in my view does not deserve to be killed for passing on Marcus. But my own choice as a GM would have been different. I know I can get role players in the draft or in free agency or via trade at any point. Guards that understand offenses are different. When I have a big man that needs the ball it is important for me to go out and get someone that can run the offense. Hopefully now a year later we understand this importance and will go out and target one. Whether that is a "defensive PG", or a "pass first PG" is not important. What is important is that we get some compliments for Eddie now and worry about role players later.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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3/1/2007  11:18 AM
In my view the bottom line is this. The pick was made to help with this year. It was made to help improve our defense for this year. It was made to help us show evident progress this year. It was not made keeping our "franchise player" in mind and what we want our team to look like when he hits his prime. That's just my opinion and does not mean Isiah is an idiot. I would have done differently.
I just hope that people will like me
MS
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3/1/2007  11:20 AM
Alexander Johnson and Milsap had good college careers, in many cases much better than Balkman and they were there in the second round i think its safe to say that he may have been there.....

The suns dropped the ball this year i don't think they would have grabbed him, why they didn't take marcus and let nash tutor him was a little questionable even, rando or lowry there instead of signing banks......

I just think the pg needs to be able to get the center the ball and the knicks have a very tough time doing that. They should have moved nate in the offseason to make room for marcus
MS
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3/1/2007  11:20 AM
Alexander Johnson and Milsap had good college careers, in many cases much better than Balkman and they were there in the second round i think its safe to say that he may have been there.....

The suns dropped the ball this year i don't think they would have grabbed him, why they didn't take marcus and let nash tutor him was a little questionable even, rando or lowry there instead of signing banks......

I just think the pg needs to be able to get the center the ball and the knicks have a very tough time doing that. They should have moved nate in the offseason to make room for marcus
playa2
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3/1/2007  11:24 AM
Posted by MS:

Alexander Johnson and Milsap had good college careers, in many cases much better than Balkman and they were there in the second round i think its safe to say that he may have been there.....

The suns dropped the ball this year i don't think they would have grabbed him, why they didn't take marcus and let nash tutor him was a little questionable even, rando or lowry there instead of signing banks......

I just think the pg needs to be able to get the center the ball and the knicks have a very tough time doing that. They should have moved nate in the offseason to make room for marcus

Especially after the highlight of him winning the slam dunk competition last yr.
Many teams need his kind of entertainment on their team, Zeke just has an ego problem.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TMS
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3/1/2007  11:26 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by TMS:

3 assists & just about 2 TO's in 17 minutes isn't what i call getting your teammates involved... he's taken alot of shots in comparison to the time he's been on the floor... 7 attempts per game in 17 minutes... that's more shots per minute than Jamal averages per game... J Kidd has been the orchestrator for that team... anyone who is basing all these assumptions about Marcus being a great orchestrator based on how he's played this year is really basing their opinions on what he did at UConn... he hasn't been a great orchestrator for the Nets this year... he's been more of a shooting PG that can't guard anyone worth a lick... wow, we really need more of those on this team.

LB asked his PG to take less shots in his offense. Isiah has done the same. Is it possible that Frank has asked Marcus to take more shots because he already has Kidd playing the point? Or is it that only LB and Isiah determine the roles for their players.

I don't know how good Marcus will be but I can guarantee you that this guy will be very good at running whatever offense that whatever coach asks him to run. The guy has been pass first his entire life, let's not base his career on his rookie year sample. It's as unfair to do that for him as it is for Balkamn. But in the end it doesn't matter. We have Balkman. Balkman will be a solid player. It was a good pick. but like I said when the draft pick was made that with Eddie as our franchise player you have to eventually pick a PG. You cannot base Eddies future on the current backcourt because they will not be here when he hits his prime. Eventually he needs a runningmate. We passed on one opportunity to get one. Let's just hope we don't wait 10 years to get him one like we did in getting a jumpshooter for Pat. Forget the roster right now. Forget the record right now. Build a team. Get this guy someone who can feed him the ball.

Now again, I have no problem with Balkman. Your job is to get a player in the draft. Sometimes you get the best one available, most of the times you don't. The jury is still out on this one and Isiah in my view does not deserve to be killed for passing on Marcus. But my own choice as a GM would have been different. I know I can get role players in the draft or in free agency or via trade at any point. Guards that understand offenses are different. When I have a big man that needs the ball it is important for me to go out and get someone that can run the offense. Hopefully now a year later we understand this importance and will go out and target one. Whether that is a "defensive PG", or a "pass first PG" is not important. What is important is that we get some compliments for Eddie now and worry about role players later.

Bip, i said anyone who's basing their assumptions about Marcus' potential on what he's shown as an NBA player are actually basing their projections on what he did at UConn... he hasn't shown the things a lot of people are saying he will be as an NBA player because that hasn't been his role.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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3/1/2007  11:29 AM
Add to it that almost every player that comes out of UConn has a great understanding of the game and become very good players it just makes sense to draft players from there. Calhoun has proven himself by now I think. He may actually be the best right now at turning out pros.
I just hope that people will like me
Renaldo Balkman vs Marcus Williams re-visited

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