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We have played like crap since the All-Star Break
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nixluva
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2/26/2007  1:14 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

What peolpe need to realize is we really can't judge this team until Jeffires back from his wrist injury and in the starting lineup. He's the key, he's the glue that's gonna shore up our defense. Everything will make sense when he's available.

Oh wait, that was November, and this is end of February already? Man we need more injuries to keep the excuses flowing.

Nixluva, in the NBA all teams go thru these niggling injuries. Waiting for an injury free season takes longer than waiting for the next Patrick Ewing.


I know injuries are part of it, but at the same time, I NEVER said that was the ENTIRE reason why this team hasn't been able to move ahead. But when you're not a top team and you have injuries to key players, it effects you even more. Some teams are better able to withstand things like that.

In any event there are other reasons which i've also mentioned and one is Isiah himself. I don't like how he's been handling the roster. I think he has players ont he bench that can help a little or a least need to be given a chance so that we can see if they can help. DNP's for Nate and Collins made no sense. OF all the games to sit Malik, that game was one that he might have helped. He's smart and might've been able to help our guys on D out there.
AUTOADVERT
martin
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2/26/2007  1:52 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Actually we've played like crap since 2000

LOL, true, true.
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arkrud
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2/26/2007  6:19 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Nalod:

when all else fails, bring in "Layden" and try to make it all better!

Payroll went up from $84 mil to 125 mil. Thats a 48% increase.

We could have had a deal if they wanted to keep adding to the payroll as we have the last few years.

Taxes have gone up from about 20 million to triple that amount. Or a 300% increase!

Other than being a total homer what logical "additions" are gonna get us to the next level?

Nix, your cred is very low in my book. This team is very funky and could have improved with more money, but Dolan is not gonna take it on.

I don't get your point. This team has a base of players that we can build around. We know we need certain things. ie shotblocking/shooting/perimeter defense etc. Another dependable player like VC wouldn't hurt, but in any event there's nothing wrong with the base of this team so far. We have youth and talent. It's basically a .500 team right now and is that the worst thing in the world? You don't think this team can be improved upon? WHY?

Who are the players to build around?
Lee, Dlee, Mr Lee... and...


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bonn1997
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2/26/2007  7:21 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Nalod:

when all else fails, bring in "Layden" and try to make it all better!

Payroll went up from $84 mil to 125 mil. Thats a 48% increase.

We could have had a deal if they wanted to keep adding to the payroll as we have the last few years.

Taxes have gone up from about 20 million to triple that amount. Or a 300% increase!

Other than being a total homer what logical "additions" are gonna get us to the next level?

Nix, your cred is very low in my book. This team is very funky and could have improved with more money, but Dolan is not gonna take it on.

I don't get your point. This team has a base of players that we can build around. We know we need certain things. ie shotblocking/shooting/perimeter defense etc. Another dependable player like VC wouldn't hurt, but in any event there's nothing wrong with the base of this team so far. We have youth and talent. It's basically a .500 team right now and is that the worst thing in the world? You don't think this team can be improved upon? WHY?

Who are the players to build around?
Lee, Dlee, Mr Lee... and...
Well you've got three already! Things are looking up!
4949
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2/26/2007  7:39 PM
Posted by arkrud:

I don't see us playing much different.
Lee apsence is felt.
I think the overal league quality of ball rased as playoffs aproaching and teams are stabilizing rosters and players are getting in better form.
It is just time of the truth for us. No more miracles.
Did you remember we getting blown away each yera approximatlely at the same time?

If you noticed, our rebounds are way' down since he's been gone! We're getting out rebounded for one thing.
I'll never trust this' team again.
misterearl
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2/27/2007  8:42 AM
Elite - would you like a do-over?

just for the record, David Lee is NOT the key to the franchise. and I love David Lee but let's not get crazy.

But he is great for marketing.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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2/27/2007  8:58 AM
Just for the record

the Knicks' started the season 9-17

their 17-15 turnaround is not "playing like crap"
once a knick always a knick
Marv
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2/27/2007  9:56 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Elite - would you like a do-over?

just for the record, David Lee is NOT the key to the franchise. and I love David Lee but let's not get crazy.

But he is great for marketing.

earl, i'm curious about where you've seen the knicks or msg pushing the white boy angle for marketing. i haven't seen them put lee ahead of curry, frye, craw, etc. is it going on?
Elite
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2/27/2007  10:07 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Elite - would you like a do-over?

No i would not like a do over.

We played good last night, for the first time since the all-star break. So my post is still valid. Why would i want a do-over? And david lee is our best player wake up

misterearl
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2/27/2007  10:32 AM
Marv - okay, let's deal with a sensitive topic. I'll give it my best shot...

I can't say that the Knicks marketers have pushed the David Lee angle any more than the other players. What I AM suggesting is that ALL fans identify with professional players based upon how they "look"...

whether it is how they conform to the ideal (and very personal) image of an athlete... or how "hard" or intense they appear to be playing, whatever that means, people make decisions about who they pull for on a very intimate level.

People loved Oak diving into the stands for loose balls. People love David Lee for absorbing the black eye, and for his hustle and uncanny hops. I also would offer that if David Lee delivered the same 28 and 11 that Eddy came with last night, there would enough ejaculate to start a small city.

On the other hand, players like Marbury and Ewing appear disinterested, aloof or downright pissed. People don't like that. To some, the 290 pound Eddy Curry "looks" lazy. But how heavy a load is that to carry?

Now, with regard to the complexion of the city, Perfect Knicks would have been Chris Mullin, Kiki, Felipe Lopez if he had game, Nene in his prime and even Yao Ming. Just to provide the same diversity the Dallas Mavericks have.

As the team has struggled over the past decade, except for the bright moment in 1999, the Knicks have been labelled in a variety of ways, some fair, some unfair, because of how they are perceived by those doing the image-crafting or writing.

I've contended for years, and stand by the idea, the Knicks should reflect the cosmopolitan nature of the city. But that's just me.

Tough topic, I'm just keepin' it real.

Always good to trade ideas with you Marv.

once a knick always a knick
Marv
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2/27/2007  1:00 PM
earl, it is a sensitive topic and you did a real nice job on it.

i have to run out on an appointment but will definitely weigh in later.

Marv
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2/27/2007  6:12 PM
ok, my take is the following:

trying to appeal to a fanbase on a demographic level is only a plus if the team is playing well already. if the team is sucking, it's not going to appease anyone except for populations that are rarely represented in the league (e.g., the fans who came out bigtime specifically for garbajosa even when the raptors were sucking as bad as the knicks).

i also think that nba fans, more so than the other major sprots, played the game and so relate to players more personally according to their specific game. so for example my favorite recent knicks have been ariza and balkman, largely because i've always related to the skinny slightly out-of-control player who flings himself into the middle of the action. i'm just deeply disappointed and resentful that i stopped growing so far short of my 6'8" goal.

as far as guys like ewing and marbury, i think there's an additional factor - the introversion versus extroversion one. if you're an invtovert, as i believe they both are, then when you're playing well and winning you're going to be lauded as "fierce" and a "warrior." but god forbid you're sucking or your team is, and you are now a "sulker," "aloof" and a "malcontent." rememebr how jabbar got just killed for this personality trait?

as far as dlee, sure there are going to be people who relate to him more and cheer for him more because he's white. but i think by far the basis of his appeal is his rebounding prowess and the willingness to throw his body into the middle of every scrimmage for the ball. but i'd also bet that the great majority of knick fans would have rather seen frye excel, because his offfensive gifts would have elevated his overall game far beyond lee's if he showed the same nose for the ball and willingness to mix it up.
misterearl
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2/27/2007  7:03 PM
Marv, speaking of the introversion versus extroversion thing, our man-child Eddy Curry is also an intriguing case. Coming straight from high school had to be a frigid blast of cold air in Chicago. A withdrawn and uncertain personality to be certain.

Now that he is starting to feel just a bit more comfortable in New York, while going through the gradual maturation process we all experience... it is interesting to see him become more assertive on the court. His outstretched triumphant arms after the alley-oop dunk were a statement that he was in the house.

I think the fans in The Garden responded to his emotion. Now, on the other hand, our stick of dy-no-mite Nate seems to have toned his act down just enough to remove the headband and play some slightly more conformist basketball. It will be interesting to watch how he (cough)grows into a role.

Personally, I don't worry about trying to fit individual players into my image of what they should look or act like so long as they share the basketball and get back on defense. They should also follow Bill Bradley's example and police each other as citizens off the floor.

If nothing else, other than Jerome having one too many on last new year's eve, all the knicks have been solid citizens. Marbury's good works with Katrina victims and the 15 dollar kicks have set the tone of a leader and I'm cool with that.

Frye needs to date a wild woman... or develop his footwork and play the two guard.

okay, before I ramble on...

Marv, your comments inspire thought and debate. With that said... how do you think the 'perception' of Jamal's Crawford game would change if it were in the body of draft pick Milos Vujanic?

I'm jes' axin
once a knick always a knick
We have played like crap since the All-Star Break

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