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bigbeast
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2/26/2007  11:33 AM
MS- I don't disagree with you. We definitely need a legit 2 (and a 3 for that matter) but it seems as if Isiah and Craw are joined at the hip. He loves this guy for some reason and I don't see him moving him. The only way I see Craw moving is if Isiah is moved first.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
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jaydh
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2/26/2007  11:34 AM
Posted by MS:

Would you rather have crawford and frye not playing any defense or upgrading your size and giving you a real two, or stay with the **** we have, he is one of the few guys we can get, i think mullin would be open because they need another big

I'd rather not make any moves unless it involved a defensive minded player.
MS
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2/26/2007  11:39 AM
I think we can draft a defender in this draft, that has to be someone with no offensive ability like jefferies in the nbadl that can play good defense.....

The great thing about this season is that he has to show progress even though we haven't seen any so when we lose to the heat tonight eliminating ourselves from the playoffs chances are we won't get to see Collins, Nate, and Balkman play a little more
TMS
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2/26/2007  11:44 AM
Posted by MS:


New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
18.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.3 apg in 37.7 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 PF from Arizona
10.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 25.5 minutes
Incoming
Jason Richardson
6-6 SG from Michigan State
13.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 30.4 minutes


I think we should serioulsy look into this deal I know the guy was injured, but I really like his game he is a good shooter and would be nice in an uptempo attack. Frye is soft and we need to start putting together a team.

Marbury/Collins
Richardson/Nate
Q/Balkman
Lee/Jefferies
Curry/Rose

I think we begin to move in the right direction, and targeting his teammate Pietrus wouldn't be a bad idea either.

And if you want to get really crazy, and take yourself out of the Wade/Bosh/Lebron sweeptakes

New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
2.0 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 8.9 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
3.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 20.5 minutes
Incoming
Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
9.5 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 31.0 minutes


You could try that, but we def need JRICH
how do you know the Warriors would even be willing to trade us JRich for Jamal & Frye?

& Kenyon Martin was a guy i wanted to trade for before the season because i thought he'd be worth the risk, but the Knicks chose to stop taking on bloated contracts like his & get a handle on the cap situation for a change... i can't blast them for that... right now the best solution is to just wait out these contracts, let them come off the cap naturally, & focus on developing the young guys... it's going to take a couple years of patience, something we've had to endure for several years already... it's when that patience turns into desperation that you get these cap killing trades that bite you in the butt later (a-la Antonio McKnee, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, etc.)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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2/26/2007  12:03 PM
I think they would they need money to resign ellis, and i think they would rather resign pietrus........

I think adding another big to play behind beidrus/harrington would be a good idea
TMS
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2/26/2007  12:15 PM
what you think makes sense may not be the reality of the situation... how do you even know Isiah didn't make a few inquiries into getting JRich but was faced w/having to give up someone like D Lee to get him? you need to stop assuming all these trades could get done so easily... if that were the case we'd have seen a lot more movement of players at the trade deadline.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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2/26/2007  1:56 PM
That's complete BS to rationalize that dumping assets, in this case a very large expiring contract, for nothing is a good thing because it will prevent the GM from making a bad trade. IF YOU DON'T TRUST YOUR GM TO DO THE RIGHT THING THEN HE SHOULDN'T BE YOUR GM!!!

This is just another example of Isiah making moves without a plan and doing whatever he can to extend his employment.

First we're building around Marbury and veterans because you can't build with draft picks and nobody comes to watch the salary cap.

Then we're building around draft picks and expiring contracts are very important to help acquire picks in salary dumps.

Now expiring contracts aren't an asset and the salary cap is important.

Whatever it takes for Isiah to keep buying time. Isiah is always looking forward to not months but years down the road. "This team needs 3-4 years to get it", "You can't judge draft picks until they're in the league 3-4 years" and you know this is coming "We're trying to get under the cap now which will take 3-4 years".

And some people here will be eating it up saying that Isiah really did need at least 8 years to clean up the mess he inherited.

Meanwhile Colangelo has the Raptors playing like a near future contender in less than a year.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
MS
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2/26/2007  2:01 PM
So ****ing terrible, it was obvious we needed Brain in here, the nba knew it but dolan is too stupid to admit he doesn't know what he is doing with daddys team
TMS
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2/26/2007  2:09 PM
the only trades out there to be had are the ones along the lines of adding a Ray Allen type veteran w/a hugely bloated contract for expirings & draft picks... you know, the same types of deals you've been ripping Isiah for making since he's been here?

if you think you're going to get an elite level player in his prime like Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce who would drastically effect the team's chances of being a contender this year for an expiring, Frye, Nate & a pick in the 20's, you're more deluded than Trevor Ariza... & a team like Philly is NOT going to trade a divisional rival their franchise stud & have to hear about it all year long from their fans when they see him torch them when the Knicks come to town unless they're getting back a better package than what the Knicks would have been willing to part with.

these "potential deals" you're talking about either don't make sense for this franchise, or they were just not going to happen regardless if we had kept those expirings or not, so waxing poetic about it as if they would have is just a waste of your time & of everyone else's.

this is just another reason for people to nitpick when they've been calling for this to happen for years... for once the Knicks are being fiscally responsible & NOT giving up the future for short term quick fix solutions, & you're still ripping them for it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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2/26/2007  2:13 PM
oh wait, i forgot, we coulda had Pau Gasol if we had an expiring to deal, right? only MEM wanted Luol Deng & Ben Gordon for him, but what are they compared to Channing Frye, Nate Robinson & a late 20's pick? MEM would be crazy to pass up an offer like that
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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2/26/2007  2:18 PM
That's more BS rationalization. Nobody knows what kind of player we could have traded for with Rose and Taylor's expiring deals along with Frye (who Isiah seems to have given up on) and anybody else.

That's like saying that it doesn't matter how many potential lottery picks we've traded because there's no guarantee that we would have drafted a franchise player.

You have to be in it to win it.

[Edited by - islesfan on 02-26-2007 2:19 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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2/26/2007  2:22 PM
i think you're the one here w/the BS rationalizations... i'm dealing w/reality... you're dealing w/fantasy trades that would have had zero chance of happening... you know, the same types of zero chance trades you've ripped others for proposing in the past.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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2/26/2007  2:47 PM
Posted by TMS:

i think you're the one here w/the BS rationalizations... i'm dealing w/reality... you're dealing w/fantasy trades that would have had zero chance of happening... you know, the same types of zero chance trades you've ripped others for proposing in the past.

Reality: Dumping assets the way Isiah has is stupid.

Reality: Without assets you can't make trades.

Reality: Just because you have assets, it doesn't mean you have to make bad trades.

Fantasy: Suggesting ridiculous trades where the Knicks get the best player by far and the other team gets the Knicks garbage.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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2/26/2007  2:52 PM
Fantasy: Suggesting ridiculous trades where the Knicks get the best player by far and the other team gets the Knicks garbage.

i.e. Knicks getting Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol, or Kevin Garnett w/a package of Steve Francis, Channing Frye, Nate Robinson & CHI's pick.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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2/26/2007  2:53 PM
I have no problem with his article. I don't know if I'd go as far to say that it's Isiah's worst move. It is Isiah's fault, though, because if Isiah hadn't mismanaged Dolan's money all this time, he probably would have some expiring contracts to work with. Anyway, point still being, that there were some big names available in trade this year, and I do think expirings plus picks/players, etc... could've landed one. Would it have helped the team in the long run? Can't say, but the point is that we never got into the play because Mo T and Jalen were waived. It's kind of disappointing that the one year the players we'd been waiting for in trade have been available, we've been out of the running. In past years, we just took whoever we could get via trade, whether they made sense for the team or not. Now we would've had the opportunity to get a missing piece, and we didn't have the expirings. Very ironic.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
islesfan
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2/26/2007  2:57 PM
Posted by TMS:
Fantasy: Suggesting ridiculous trades where the Knicks get the best player by far and the other team gets the Knicks garbage.

i.e. Knicks getting Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol, or Kevin Garnett w/a package of Steve Francis, Channing Frye, Nate Robinson & CHI's pick.

Are you agreeing with me?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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2/26/2007  2:59 PM
Posted by TMS:
Fantasy: Suggesting ridiculous trades where the Knicks get the best player by far and the other team gets the Knicks garbage.

i.e. Knicks getting Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol, or Kevin Garnett w/a package of Steve Francis, Channing Frye, Nate Robinson & CHI's pick.

Right, but what if reality was say Paul Pierce for Jalen Rose (expiring), Frye, Robinson and a first rounder? Some would think that the Knicks would have hit a home run with that one.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TMS
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2/26/2007  3:13 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
Fantasy: Suggesting ridiculous trades where the Knicks get the best player by far and the other team gets the Knicks garbage.

i.e. Knicks getting Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol, or Kevin Garnett w/a package of Steve Francis, Channing Frye, Nate Robinson & CHI's pick.

Right, but what if reality was say Paul Pierce for Jalen Rose (expiring), Frye, Robinson and a first rounder? Some would think that the Knicks would have hit a home run with that one.

sorry, i meant to say Jalen Rose as part of that ridiculous fantasy proposal... there's no way in hell the Celtics would have made that trade... i don't see them making that deal w/ANY team, much less the Knicks.

if you're trading Paul Pierce, you better be getting back some significant young talent like Ben Gordon AND Luol Deng (not saying Chicago would have been a possibility, but they woulda had a much better shot than the Knicks w/that package)... otherwise, it's not even worth considering.

[Edited by - TMS on 02-26-2007 3:15 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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2/26/2007  3:17 PM
Why are Pierce, Gasol and KG the only players that the Knicks could have traded for?

Rose's expiring couldn't have been used to get a useful piece?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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2/26/2007  3:17 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
Fantasy: Suggesting ridiculous trades where the Knicks get the best player by far and the other team gets the Knicks garbage.

i.e. Knicks getting Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol, or Kevin Garnett w/a package of Steve Francis, Channing Frye, Nate Robinson & CHI's pick.

Right, but what if reality was say Paul Pierce for Jalen Rose (expiring), Frye, Robinson and a first rounder? Some would think that the Knicks would have hit a home run with that one.

sorry, i meant to say Jalen Rose as part of that ridiculous fantasy proposal... there's no way in hell the Celtics would have made that trade... i don't see them making that deal w/ANY team, much less the Knicks.

if you're trading Paul Pierce, you better be getting back some significant young talent like Ben Gordon AND Luol Deng (not saying Chicago would have been a possibility, but they woulda had a much better shot than the Knicks w/that package)... otherwise, it's not even worth considering.

Really? I don't know about that. I think the Celts do it, because they're an awful team right now and they need to rebuild. I could definitely see them getting rid of pierce for that price, and I do think a huge salary relief and some first rounders is a very reasonable proposal. I think that's a better package than what Philly got for Iverson, actually.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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