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Knicks 15th on hollingers power rankings
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crzymdups
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2/14/2007  4:25 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I thought Hollinger was a hater and you couldn't take anything he said seriously.

Or is that just a selective thing when it comes to the media?

Hollinger's 2006-7 predictions for centers:
"Jackie Butler is the 5th best center in the NBA and Curry is the 16th"
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Solace
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2/14/2007  4:27 PM
Posted by subzero0:

Two steps back and then two steps forward??? Do you truly believe we are equal to the team with Shandon Anderson, Clearance Wetherspoon, Howard Eisley and the boys?

If you're going to highlight those players, then that group over Jared Jeffries, Jerome James and Nate Robinson... YES! We had five or six players that were better than all of those guys.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
crzymdups
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2/14/2007  4:28 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by subzero0:

Two steps back and then two steps forward??? Do you truly believe we are equal to the team with Shandon Anderson, Clearance Wetherspoon, Howard Eisley and the boys?

If you're going to highlight those players, then that group over Jared Jeffries, Jerome James and Nate Robinson... YES! We had five or six players that were better than all of those guys.

name them.

if this team played the roster that was intact when Isiah got here, they'd win by 30.
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Solace
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2/14/2007  4:30 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by subzero0:

Two steps back and then two steps forward??? Do you truly believe we are equal to the team with Shandon Anderson, Clearance Wetherspoon, Howard Eisley and the boys?

If you're going to highlight those players, then that group over Jared Jeffries, Jerome James and Nate Robinson... YES! We had five or six players that were better than all of those guys.

name them.

if this team played the roster that was intact when Isiah got here, they'd win by 30.

Allan Houston, Keith Van Horn, Kurt Thomas, Antonio McDyess (Camby before him), Dikembe Mutombo, Charlie Ward. Those six guys were better than Shandon, Spoon and Eisley. So why are Shandon, Spoon and Eisley the first three out of anyone's mouth?

(Edit: I also forgot Michael Doleac)

[Edited by - Solace on Feb 14 2007 4:33 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
crzymdups
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2/14/2007  4:34 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by subzero0:

Two steps back and then two steps forward??? Do you truly believe we are equal to the team with Shandon Anderson, Clearance Wetherspoon, Howard Eisley and the boys?

If you're going to highlight those players, then that group over Jared Jeffries, Jerome James and Nate Robinson... YES! We had five or six players that were better than all of those guys.

name them.

if this team played the roster that was intact when Isiah got here, they'd win by 30.

Allan Houston, Keith Van Horn, Kurt Thomas, Antonio McDyess (Camby before him), Dikembe Mutombo, Charlie Ward. Those six guys were better than Shandon, Spoon and Eisley. So why are Shandon, Spoon and Eisley the first three out of anyone's mouth?

what % of games were Houston and McDyess active for? 25%?

no one had a problem with Camby, the problem was moving Camby and a lotto pick for McDyess.

don't confuse the careers of Ward, KVH, KT and Houston and McDyess and Mutombo with how they were playing in 03-04. they were smart vets with very little semblance of their earlier games left. every single one of those guys was on their way out or on their way to a spot reserve off the bench role.
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Solace
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2/14/2007  4:37 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by subzero0:

Two steps back and then two steps forward??? Do you truly believe we are equal to the team with Shandon Anderson, Clearance Wetherspoon, Howard Eisley and the boys?

If you're going to highlight those players, then that group over Jared Jeffries, Jerome James and Nate Robinson... YES! We had five or six players that were better than all of those guys.

name them.

if this team played the roster that was intact when Isiah got here, they'd win by 30.

Allan Houston, Keith Van Horn, Kurt Thomas, Antonio McDyess (Camby before him), Dikembe Mutombo, Charlie Ward. Those six guys were better than Shandon, Spoon and Eisley. So why are Shandon, Spoon and Eisley the first three out of anyone's mouth?

what % of games were Houston and McDyess active for? 25%?

no one had a problem with Camby, the problem was moving Camby and a lotto pick for McDyess.

don't confuse the careers of Ward, KVH, KT and Houston and McDyess and Mutombo with how they were playing in 03-04. they were smart vets with very little semblance of their earlier games left. every single one of those guys was on their way out or on their way to a spot reserve off the bench role.

I highly disagree with that assessment. I don't long for those days either, but I honestly enjoyed watching that team more than this one. Sorry if that upsets you.

Point being that team was as talented as this one, maybe moreso. We're younger in some regards, but some of our pieces that we paid a ton to get (Francis, Marbury) are on the decline, just like the Houston's, etc.. of the world. I don't like this team, and we need a competent GM to fix it; not a snake.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Silverfuel
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2/14/2007  4:42 PM
Mutombo was only here for 25 games. McDyess averaged 8 points and 6 rebounds as a Knick. Carlie Ward? KVH? where are they now? Yea! I think VMart said it best. "watch the Knicks without hate for any player or their GM/coach and you'll enjoy them. They have become fun to watch."
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
crzymdups
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2/14/2007  4:42 PM
Posted by Solace:

I highly disagree with that assessment. I don't long for those days either, but I honestly enjoyed watching that team more than this one. Sorry if that upsets you.

Point being that team was as talented as this one, maybe moreso. We're younger in some regards, but some of our pieces that we paid a ton to get (Francis, Marbury) are on the decline, just like the Houston's, etc.. of the world. I don't like this team, and we need a competent GM to fix it; not a snake.

you're allowed to disagree, it doesn't bother me.

but the bottom line is that team was struggling to play .300 ball when Layden left and now they're much younger, have a post game and flirting with .500.

you left out Frank Williams, who everyone back then used to cling to as the next Walt Clyde. man, those were the days.
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Solace
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2/14/2007  5:00 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

but the bottom line is that team was struggling to play .300 ball when Layden left and now they're much younger, have a post game and flirting with .500.

you left out Frank Williams, who everyone back then used to cling to as the next Walt Clyde. man, those were the days.

.300 ball is definitely an exaggeration. The only time in recent years we struggled to stay above .300 (and thusly failed to) was last year... with Isiah as GM. During Layden's last full year as GM we won 37 games and many felt we were poised to make the playoffs, which we eventually did despite the change in coach and GM. With Layden's team before Isiah got to make a single trade, we were 20-25. Again, I'm not longing for those days, but I found that team fun to watch. When Isiah came onboard I was excited. When he brought in Marbury, I thought he overpaid, but I was excited, because it balanced the team, gave us the youth and the team showed a lot of chemistry. What followed was move after inept move, which repeatedly removed the balance from the team. It has never been restored since. I'm no longer excited. Sorry.

As for Frank Williams, you're right, I forgot about him too. I liked him a lot, and I think he would've made a very good NBA point guard. He may still, but he hasn't yet found the right situation. He had one here, but then we traded for two PGs which relished Frank to the depths of the bench.

[Edited by - Solace on Feb 14 2007 5:03 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
crzymdups
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2/14/2007  5:05 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by crzymdups:

but the bottom line is that team was struggling to play .300 ball when Layden left and now they're much younger, have a post game and flirting with .500.

you left out Frank Williams, who everyone back then used to cling to as the next Walt Clyde. man, those were the days.

.300 ball is definitely an exaggeration. The only time in recent years we struggled to stay above .300 (and thusly failed to) was last year... with Isiah as GM. During Layden's last full year as GM we won 37 games and many felt we were poised to make the playoffs, which we eventually did despite the change in coach and GM. With Layden's team before Isiah got to make a single trade, we were 20-25. Again, I'm not longing for those days, but I found that team fun to watch. When Isiah came onboard I was excited. When he brought in Marbury, I thought he overpaid, but I was excited, because it balanced the team, gave us the youth and the team showed a lot of chemistry. What followed was move after inept move, which repeatedly removed the balance from the team. It has never been restored since. I'm no longer excited. Sorry.

[Edited by - Solace on Feb 14 2007 5:01 PM]

we were 10-18 when Layden was fired. the team went on a winning streak after he was fired, with Frank Williams and KVH leading the team. also, there's no way we were 20-25 before Marbury showed up, I'm sorry, that's just insanely wrong. it was more like 13-19 or something.

I honestly don't know how you could have been excited with Layden at any point after he traded Camby, but okay. maybe in the two pre-season games before McDyess' knee blew up, though the team had already suspended Sprewell by that point.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 02-14-2007 5:07 PM]
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subzero0
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2/14/2007  5:13 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by crzymdups:

but the bottom line is that team was struggling to play .300 ball when Layden left and now they're much younger, have a post game and flirting with .500.

you left out Frank Williams, who everyone back then used to cling to as the next Walt Clyde. man, those were the days.

.300 ball is definitely an exaggeration. The only time in recent years we struggled to stay above .300 (and thusly failed to) was last year... with Isiah as GM. During Layden's last full year as GM we won 37 games and many felt we were poised to make the playoffs, which we eventually did despite the change in coach and GM. With Layden's team before Isiah got to make a single trade, we were 20-25. Again, I'm not longing for those days, but I found that team fun to watch. When Isiah came onboard I was excited. When he brought in Marbury, I thought he overpaid, but I was excited, because it balanced the team, gave us the youth and the team showed a lot of chemistry. What followed was move after inept move, which repeatedly removed the balance from the team. It has never been restored since. I'm no longer excited. Sorry.

[Edited by - Solace on Feb 14 2007 5:01 PM]

we were 10-18 when Layden was fired. the team went on a winning streak after he was fired, with Frank Williams and KVH leading the team. also, there's no way we were 20-25 before Marbury showed up, I'm sorry, that's just insanely wrong. it was more like 13-19 or something.

I honestly don't know how you could have been excited with Layden at any point after he traded Camby, but okay. maybe in the two pre-season games before McDyess' knee blew up, though the team had already suspended Sprewell by that point.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 02-14-2007 5:07 PM]

Ugh wasnt that the season where Houston, Dyess, and Keith Van Horn were perpetually injured. Ugh no thanks. I enjoy this team a lot more.

[Edited by - subzero0 on 02-14-2007 5:14 PM]
Solace
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2/14/2007  5:14 PM
You're right. My numbers were way off. Sorry, I misremembered.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
nykshaknbake
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2/14/2007  5:50 PM
Isn't anything Hollinger said. His rating thing is updated daily and just a computation based on +/- margins, strength of schedule, etc. DOesn't really include his own biases.
Posted by islesfan:

I thought Hollinger was a hater and you couldn't take anything he said seriously.

Or is that just a selective thing when it comes to the media?

Knicks 15th on hollingers power rankings

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