Posted by TrueBlue:

I don't feel there's that much talent on this team to be honest. Especially defensively.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TrueBlue:

I don't feel there's that much talent on this team to be honest. Especially defensively.

I think people usually don't take into account defense when they use the word "talent." They're just talking about things like dribbling, shooting, passing,and general athleticism and strength

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02-13-2007 1:24 PM]

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by franco12:

Posted by fishmike:

This is why Isiah has done a bad job. People that support him like to throw out the Dolan mandate and say his hands were tied because he had to make the playoffs. If that was his mandate he should have went out and got guys that knew how to make the playoffs. Instead he added a bunch of guys with paper talent that have no idea how to win in the NBA and never have.

He should have just gone out and overpaid for Sam Cassell, Eddie Jones, Kenny Thomas, Tony Battie and Cliff Robinson. Those guys would have played hard, played D and finished games everynight. It wouldnt have been exciting but you would have a team that probably wins 42-45 games and makes the postseason. Then you build up the bench and bottom of the roster w/ young guys. We have one lottery pick on our team and thats Frye. The Balkman, Lee, Nates of our roster would still have been available.

This team just isnt good. What were guys thinking watching the Knicks play the Clippers? Marbury couldnt make a post entry pass without getting picked off by Livingston. Eddy's 8 TOs against the Jazz and guys grumble about the refs. It goes on and on. We just arent a good BB team

Fish- you pine for Ward, Childs, Oakley- players with not that much talent, but tons of guts.

I think the game has changed- you need talent, but, yes, that talent needs to know how to win.

Talented guys can 'learn' how to win, but you can't learn talent.

I'm not pining for those guys at all. I never said that. All I said was if someone told me I had to achieve something I would start by getting people who knew how to do it. Nutsluva is fulla crap with his excuses, unless of course he works for Isiah, but whats funny is I'm pretty sure there is someone here that DOES work for him and is all over his crap.

I'm not talking about turning Ward, Eisley and McDyess into stars. But if your willing to take back terrible contracts like Marbury, Penny, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, etc you could have gotten some players that had a lot of playoff experience and were still good. Isiah paid for Marbury and Curry and other guys like they were proven stars and winners, when all they had done was put up good numbers. Guess what? All Isiah's teams have done are put up good numbers. Marbury had a great second season, we won what? 33 games?

When Isiah was hired I assumed he was brought in because of his draft experience. I was excited. Above all else I thought this franchise needed someone who could really draft. What Isiah or any GM should have done was built this team through the draft and wait for Houston/Eisley/Anderson to come off the books. Had he done that RIGHT NOW we would have a team full of young talent and $20mm of cap space coming.

But instead he opted to spend spend spend on guys that would have ZERO value and on guys that had ZERO experience playing in winning NBA programs. Hows it worked out?

Posted by martin:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:

Exactly how was Isiah supposed to get players that knew how to make the playoffs, with the crap we had to offer teams? AS if it's that easy to just put together a playoff team. It was believed that it would take isiah 3-5 years to fix the mess this team was in. Even when rebuilding people talk in terms of 3-5 year plans.

Some knick fans simply don't understand the nature of working for Dolan. They seem to think that it was a joke that Dolan didn't want to rebuild and said so. He's the reason why isiah did many of the things he did in his 1st year and a half. However as Bonn pointed out. isiah still managed to "rebuild" the roster with young talent. It amazes me how few knick fans recognize that this team has just as much young talent as any other promising young team.

We used to have HUGE gaps to fill. Now the talk is often for one of two role players to fill certain needs. This team is a good young team and it's gonna get better, but no one around here wants to wait for that to happen. Why is it so hard for fans of this team to allow this young team to jell and mature? Perhaps cuz we've almost NEVER had a young team like this. We don't know how to deal with a team that is going thru growing pains. Instant gratification is all we can understand.

6-11 in Nov.
7-9 in Dec.
7-8 in Jan.
2-1 in Feb.

November is the month that really makes this team's record look as bad as it is. A bad month when this team was trying to get it together is mostly what makes the recod look so bad. Clearly this team is making progress, but unless this team is suddenly winning every game, fans lack the patience to allow this team to go thru the natural growth process. This team has to learn how to win and they're getting closer to doing that.

i understand why fans are optimistic. it's the youngest knicks team in a while. and we're playing .500 ball since november. the team is more exciting to watch. there's alot of reasons for fans to get excited and optimistic.

but guys like myself, who are very skeptical of our future prospects are worried that there is a ceiling. the easy retort is "how do you know?" well, there's no way of knowing anything, but seeing how we've been operating, to get the talent level necessary to really push for the end goal of a title doesn't seem too promising. and it's that fear of frustration down the road that prevents a guy like me from sitting back and lauding the current situation while ignoring the prospects of this team down the road.

i'm a big believer in long term planning and keeping options open. and i fear that we don't really have either going on right now, at least not at the level required to contend. so i can sit back and enjoy the moment, but i personally, would feel more gratified if i saw a big picture plan in place where the fruits would taste much sweeter a few years from now.

100% agree on that philosophy, and not just regarding the Knicks.

Posted by NYKBocker:

I think right now, we have enough players to play the Rick Pitino helter skelter defense. Have our starters play our normal defense but when our 2nd unit comes in namely Frye, Lee, Balkman, Collins and Nate we can change the pace and get easy baskets.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TrueBlue:

I don't feel there's that much talent on this team to be honest. Especially defensively.

I think people usually don't take into account defense when they use the word "talent." They're just talking about things like dribbling, shooting, passing,and general athleticism and strength

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02-13-2007 1:24 PM]

Are you saying they should? Because I do.

Posted by misterearl:

Masterplan - stop with the lies. Involvement with winning "traditions" start before one gets to the pros...

Lee - from a winning program at Florida

Frye - a winning program and a solid coach in Lute Olsen at AZ

Collins - a winning tradition under the maniacal John Chaney

Jeffries - Bobby Knight. sheesh

Crawford - only played one year of high school and one year at Michigan, I think they've won a few games in Ann Arbor though.

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