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Stephen A. says we should trade for Ron Artest.
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tkf
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2/12/2007  2:55 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

how much value do you guys think frye has right now?
it's lower than it was last year.
you have a 7 games under .500 team and he is being outplayed by the #30 pick and curry.
that's his perception around the league.

what is his real value?

you may get artest b/c he's a cancer.

but odom? NO WAY.

I don't completely agree with that. Getting outplayed by curry right now is not a bad thing, curry is playing well, the same with lee. forget him being the #30 pick, he is playing like a lottery talent, and that is all that matters, this is no indictment on frye, not at all...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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K22
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2/12/2007  2:58 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

We're not interested in tough 2-way players

How about insane 2-way players?
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
oohah
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2/12/2007  3:04 PM
you have a 7 games under .500 team and he is being outplayed by the #30 pick and curry.

What does the #30 pick have to do with it? It's not as if Lee is playing like a second-round pick. He is outplaying all kinds of players, vets, picks, most of the Knicks.

How well Lee plays or does not play has nothing to with Frye's value. And Lee is a good player plain and simple, he is no longer a 'pick'. For instance, Josh Howard is a good player, not the 29th pick. Same with Boozer, Arenas, etc.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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2/12/2007  3:20 PM
Posted by oohah:
you have a 7 games under .500 team and he is being outplayed by the #30 pick and curry.

What does the #30 pick have to do with it? It's not as if Lee is playing like a second-round pick. He is outplaying all kinds of players, vets, picks, most of the Knicks.

How well Lee plays or does not play has nothing to with Frye's value. And Lee is a good player plain and simple, he is no longer a 'pick'. For instance, Josh Howard is a good player, not the 29th pick. Same with Boozer, Arenas, etc.

oohah

how lee and curry are playing have everything to do with frye's value. if frye was starting and putting up decent #'s, his value is higher than if he lost his starting spot and is now behind lee and curry. he's now viewed as more expendable than before. which means the bargaining point starts at a lower spot.

for frye's value to go up, he has to start performing big time off the bench - that means not following up an 18 point game with a 6 point one.

frye's value is in his potential and the other team's staff in cultivating it b/c right now, we're not seeing it on the court.

whereas lee's value is TANGIBLE - that's a double double every night.
bobs3304
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2/12/2007  3:30 PM
There's no way I wouldn't trade Lee for Artest.


You think about it 4 awhile, but you'd come to the same conclusion everytime.


Pull it.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
EnySpree
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2/12/2007  3:46 PM
Knicks need another real threat on offense. Artest is gonna bring the D, but the knicks need another guy that can flat out score.

Can malik and frye pull it off? I don't wanna trade anyone else but these guys for artest. Sactown could develop frye and if they are thinking of trading bibby then why not try to get Frye. Sactown needs to rebuild right now. The knicks are still a work in progress but they are not shutting it down. The knicks are in a playoff race.
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oohah
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2/12/2007  3:52 PM
What you wrote below sounds different to me than what I originally quoted, sorry if I misunderstood.
how lee and curry are playing have everything to do with frye's value. if frye was starting and putting up decent #'s, his value is higher than if he lost his starting spot and is now behind lee and curry. he's now viewed as more expendable than before. which means the bargaining point starts at a lower spot.

But Lee is playing better, as is Curry. I still don't see how their playing well damages Frye's value. If anything his own play determines his value, not Lee's or Curry's.

for frye's value to go up, he has to start performing big time off the bench - that means not following up an 18 point game with a 6 point one.

frye's value is in his potential and the other team's staff in cultivating it b/c right now, we're not seeing it on the court.

whereas lee's value is TANGIBLE - that's a double double every night.

That is on Frye. It doesn't have anything to do with Lee for sure because their roles are totally different. And the only relation it has to Curry is that Curry is using up available shot opportunities.

I think the Knicks staff and the NBA GM community realizes that Frye is a good player who is just not getting the opportunity to do what he does because he is low on the pecking order of a team filled with scorers. Lee can step in and do what he does because he is "The rebounder"(He seized that role to his credit.). Similarly, Marbury is "The PG" and Curry is "The Focus" on offense.

That doesn't mean we need to trade Frye and watch him blow up elsewhere. I don't see how it benefits the knicks to trade him at this point unless we are getting back the right kind of talent. Other than that he will be fine.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
bobs3304
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2/12/2007  4:05 PM
I won't get too much into it, but if Curry gets good, we should model after San An.


Marbury:Parker
______: Ginobili
______: Bowen
______: Elson
Curry: Duncan



DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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2/12/2007  4:08 PM
Options:

Ginobili:

Simmons, R. Davis, Artest, Pietrus


Bowen: Posey, Hassell


Elson: TONS of options
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
EnySpree
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2/12/2007  4:10 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

I won't get too much into it, but if Curry gets good, we should model after San An.


Marbury:Parker
______: Ginobili
______: Bowen
______: Elson
Curry: Duncan

If you want to be technical, on paper the knicks as is are already better than san Antonio. AS A TEAM and in REAL games the spurs are just a well oiled machine.
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oohah
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2/12/2007  4:21 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Options:

Ginobili:

Simmons, R. Davis, Artest, Pietrus


Bowen: Posey, Hassell


Elson: TONS of options

We can find equivalents for those guys, even Parker. But there is no way Curry = Duncan and that is the key to everything for San Anotnio.

Duncan is one of the best players ever, and at this point Curry is a scorer. Any model of San Antonio has to start with a Tim Duncan level player, so there is no way we can model on them with any kind of real success.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
bobs3304
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2/12/2007  4:46 PM
^ I said IF.........big IF.....Curry continues to improve.

Like Max Kellerman said, "Curry has the best post scoring this side of Tim Duncan".

We're never gonna get a Kobe or Wade, but we CAN model after San Antonio.


Marbury is every bit as good as Parker.

Artest is better than Ginobili.

Posey or Hassell would be close enough to Bowen.


Plus we could have a much better bench in time...


It's really the only realistic option.


And just for the record, Tim Duncan isn't unstoppable.

If he was, he'd have averaged 25 for his career.

He's efficient and consistent. Amare SCREWED him in the ASS in the playoffs.


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Finestrg
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2/12/2007  4:51 PM
#1 - Get Mickael Pietrus from GS for Frye package. If it took Lee, I think I would do it. This kid has the chance to be special. You gotta take a gamble once in a while, especially when you're in the Knick's situation, and this kid's youth and game are worth taking a chance on imo. He's not the popular household name like Artest, Pierce, AK-47, Marion, etc..., but he's pretty close to a complete package when you really think about it. 6'6", play the 2/3, is athletic, can defend, run the court, drive the ball and shoot it from deep. Shoots a high %. With 35 mins and 15+ shots a game he easily goes for 20 a game, especially in the Eastern Conference. GS has a glut at that position now and they just lost Troy Murphy recently in the big trade. Frye should be enough, but if it took Lee, I think I'd do it. Good trade for both clubs.

#2 - If we got Pietrus for Frye, I stand pat here and keep Lee. If it took Lee for Pietrus, I try to pry Hilton Armstrong away from NO for a Frye + Nate or Collins package. Chandler and West will always get the bulk of the PT at the 4 & 5 spots for them, plus Byron Scott likes like Cedric Simmons. They might consider Frye a more polished player than Armstrong at this point and welcome his nice shooting stroke at the center spot to open things up for either Chandler or West to operate down low. Plus they might consider Nate a good sparkplug or like Mardy's length and defensive abilities over Pargo as a primary backup behing Chris Paul. For us, I like Armstrong and think his ceiling is much higher then Frye's. Another good trade for both clubs.

#3 - If we dealt Lee, I try to get Louis Amundson from the D-league. I've been saying this for weeks now. It's OK to deal Lee - He's productive, I love the guy, but he can be replaced. Actually, Amundson just got the call up for Utah, but I think that it's just a 10-day contract because Boozer just went down. As soon as Boozer gets back - I think he gets cut and if I'm the Knicks and I just dealt Lee, this kid would bring a lot of the same qualities.

#4 - I also sign Chris Rodgers from the D-league immediately if we ever dealt Robinson, Francis and/or Collins. Great defensive player and at 6'4" he can guard 1s and 2s. Loved the defensive he played at Arizona.

#5 - I love the idea of going after Boston College's Sean Williams in next years draft, especially if we can't add a guy like Armstrong in the meantime. Shit, even if we got Armstrong, I'd still wouldn't mind adding a guy like Williams in the draft - that's how much I think shotblocking is important and this kid's a monster shotblocker and would be a great addition, provided he's got his head screwed on straight. Good call on this guy TMS!
oohah
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2/12/2007  5:00 PM
Like Max Kellerman said, "Curry has the best post scoring this side of Tim Duncan".

Max Kellerman's brother was a good friend of mine. RIP.

Max is wrong. Curry is good and overwhelming and has been doing it at this level for a few months, Duncan has made his technique into a science for 10 years and scores again and again when all the chips are on the line landing himself 3 championships.

***
^ I said IF.........big IF.....Curry continues to improve.

Biggest if ever! I will go on the record and say that Curry will never be as good as Duncan, who is probably in the top 10 ever.
And just for the record, Tim Duncan isn't unstoppable.

If he was, he'd have averaged 25 for his career.

He's efficient and consistent. Amare SCREWED him in the ASS in the playoffs.

Duncan is as unstoppable as he wants to be, it has nothing to with whether he averaged 25 or not, when the time comes to score he ain't getting stopped. DO you really think he couldn't have averaged 25? I think he prefers his championships.

Amare played very well in the playoffs against Duncan, but he still hasn't beaten him, so I don't care what he accomplished as an individual. He is not as good as Duncan. At the same stage of his career Duncan had already cut down the Nets as the best player on his team. Not so Amare.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BasketballJones
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2/12/2007  5:15 PM
I want Crazy Ron here, if only for entertainment purposes. Isiah: Get it done.
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bobs3304
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2/12/2007  5:15 PM
Lemme clarify........


The last championship Duncan won...........that MVP belonged to Ginobili.


Duncan on some nights isn't even the 2nd best player on that team.

He's never overly impressed me. He doesnt have "take over games" talent. He has anchor a team abilities, but IMHO, I'll take Barkley, Malone, Pettit, etc, etc. over Duncan.



But anyway, this is the trade we should pull off for Artest:


QRich, Frye, 07 Pick for Ronnie Boy.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 02-12-2007 5:17 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
oohah
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2/12/2007  5:20 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Lemme clarify........


The last championship Duncan won...........that MVP belonged to Ginobili.


Duncan on some nights isn't even the 2nd best player on that team.



But anyway, this is the trade we should pull off for Artest:


QRich, Frye, 07 Pick for Ronnie Boy.

Duncan is a team player. You're confusing glory with importance. Duncan is the Sun, the rest of those guys are planets. Duncan is a first ballot hall-of-famer, the rest of those guys are just good players reaping the benefits of playing next to one of the all-time greats.

I'll trade Curry for Duncan right this moment.

***

^^^

By the way that is too much to give up for Artest. Artest is very good, but you have to factor in the Artest risk factor.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
bobs3304
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2/12/2007  5:31 PM
QRich and Frye is fair value for Artest, risk or not.



And like I said, I know he's a top 10-15 player of all time, but Duncan has NEVER wow'd me. He's always been VERY "there" on defense, always been efficient and good offensively, always been a team player, good passer, solid in everything.

But he's not AMAZING in anything.

Even defense...

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
CrushAlot
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2/12/2007  5:49 PM
I think Ron would have a tough time handling things in NY. Coming back home to the spotlight for someone as unstable as he is would be a great risk. I also know that Isiah Thomas had a tough time handling him in Indiana and wanted him out despite his talent. I would love to see him as a Knick and still think about how the Knicks passed on him but I don't think it is going to happen.
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oohah
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2/12/2007  5:58 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

QRich and Frye is fair value for Artest, risk or not.



And like I said, I know he's a top 10-15 player of all time, but Duncan has NEVER wow'd me. He's always been VERY "there" on defense, always been efficient and good offensively, always been a team player, good passer, solid in everything.

But he's not AMAZING in anything.

Even defense...

I Thought you were throwing in the '07 pick. I'll trade 2 of those 3 for Artest. Prefereably Q and the pick, but I think Frye would have to be there.
And like I said, I know he's a top 10-15 player of all time, but Duncan has NEVER wow'd me. He's always been VERY "there" on defense, always been efficient and good offensively, always been a team player, good passer, solid in everything.

But he's not AMAZING in anything.

Even defense...

He got to 10-15 all time he has to be great something right? It's because he demands a triple team or he damn well will drop 30+ on you. The difference is he is so smart, once the triple team comes he instantly wings it to the right player at the right time in the right position and the Spurs score. Sometimes this creates the illusion that Ginobli or Parker are the man, but in fact they are benefiting from Duncan's ability to dominate coupled with his unselfishness.

Not to mention Duncan's career numbers are ridiculous:
Career   717 716 37.7 .506 .195 .682 3.2 8.8 12.0 3.2 0.8 2.4 2.90 2.70 21.9


You don't see what he is amazing at? How about everything?

12 rebounds, 22 points at over 50%, 3 Assists, 2.5 blocks!! All-defense team for the first 8 seasons of his career? And just look at the rings Bob!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 12-02-2007 5:59 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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Stephen A. says we should trade for Ron Artest.
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