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Magic Looking to deal Grant Hills expiring. How about this... ?
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nyk4ever
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2/10/2007  3:30 PM
We are in a REBUILDING situation. Whether us fans like it or not, this is the situation the Knicks find themselves in. The Knicks aren't winning in the next 3 years, so what is the point of keeping guys like Crawford on the books? There is no point. The point of this deal is to shed some cap, MAYBE pickup a good young prospect in return and move from there. Making trades like this this year, over the summer and next year will put the Knicks in position to get under the cap and then move on from there.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-10-2007 3:31 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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NYKresurrection
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2/10/2007  3:37 PM
nyk4ever, would do this if Orlando is willing.

Orlando Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Grant Hill
6-8 SF from Duke
15.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.0 minutes
Incoming
Knicks 2007 1st rd pick
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 9.4 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
2.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.5 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
4.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: -5.6 ppg, +3.5 rpg, and -0.7 apg.


New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Knicks 2007 1st rd pick
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 9.4 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
2.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.5 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
4.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.5 minutes
Incoming
Grant Hill
6-8 SF from Duke
15.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: +5.6 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and +0.7 apg.



Successful Scenario
Due to Orlando and New York being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Orlando and New York had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 3664494.

GOD arose JESUS from the grave !!! Isiah arose the Knicks from their grave !!!
NYKresurrection
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2/10/2007  3:40 PM
Orlando gets a high draft pick in exchange for backup for Howard in Rose, a defensive SF to tagteam with Hedo who is an offensive player and JJ to eat all the snacks from Howard to keep him in shape.
GOD arose JESUS from the grave !!! Isiah arose the Knicks from their grave !!!
nyk4ever
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2/10/2007  3:41 PM
Res, obviously I would do that deal if Orlando is willing, but theres no way the Magic want those 3 guys.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
NYKresurrection
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2/10/2007  3:43 PM
I would give them the next years draft pick aswell to sweeten the deal because with that trade, after next year we are under the cap because Francis and Marbs would be off aswell.
GOD arose JESUS from the grave !!! Isiah arose the Knicks from their grave !!!
firefly
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2/10/2007  3:44 PM
I think its a good deal. Frye/Craw/Malik for expring deal and a possible ex-lottery pick.

You know what I would prefer even more though? Hill and Darko for that package. Darko is not effective on te offensive end right now, but he brings the D and shotblocking. Start him at PF next to Curry and that becomes a pretty exciting frontcourt. Orlando get Jamal and Frye to start.They have a team of Nelson, Jamal, Hedo, Fye ad DHowar. Pretty impressive.

We start Marbury, Q, JJ, Darko, Curry with Lee, Nate, Francis(sg) JJ off the bench PLUS we safe a whole bunch of cap room. Everyone wins.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
djsunyc
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2/10/2007  3:47 PM
Posted by NYKresurrection:

nyk4ever, would do this if Orlando is willing.

Orlando Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Grant Hill
6-8 SF from Duke
15.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.0 minutes
Incoming
Knicks 2007 1st rd pick
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 9.4 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
2.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.5 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
4.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: -5.6 ppg, +3.5 rpg, and -0.7 apg.


New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Knicks 2007 1st rd pick
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 9.4 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
2.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.5 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
4.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.5 minutes
Incoming
Grant Hill
6-8 SF from Duke
15.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: +5.6 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and +0.7 apg.



Successful Scenario
Due to Orlando and New York being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Orlando and New York had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 3664494.


is orlando willing? come on man, the only way they do this trade is if they fire otis smith and hire isiah thomas.
nyk4ever
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2/10/2007  3:48 PM
Posted by firefly:

I think its a good deal. Frye/Craw/Malik for expring deal and a possible ex-lottery pick.

You know what I would prefer even more though? Hill and Darko for that package. Darko is not effective on te offensive end right now, but he brings the D and shotblocking. Start him at PF next to Curry and that becomes a pretty exciting frontcourt. Orlando get Jamal and Frye to start.They have a team of Nelson, Jamal, Hedo, Fye ad DHowar. Pretty impressive.

We start Marbury, Q, JJ, Darko, Curry with Lee, Nate, Francis(sg) JJ off the bench PLUS we safe a whole bunch of cap room. Everyone wins.

I think thats pretty fair FireFly, I would definitely be up for getting Darko instead of Vasquez, but that deal would no longer work under the cap. A 3rd team would PROBABLY have to be added to this deal to make it work because I don't see the Knicks having anything else the Magic would want.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
NYKresurrection
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2/10/2007  3:49 PM
firefly you think they wouldn't bite with 2 1st rd picks in the package ??
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nykshaknbake
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2/10/2007  3:53 PM
why do this mid season? To help Chicago? If ypu that desperately want cap room why not win a little bit first and have a more enjoyable season?
Posted by nyk4ever:

oh and heres the link about the Magic looking to trade his expiring
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44643/20070210/no_interest_in_grant_hills_expiring_deal/

Grant Hill/Rights to Fran Vasquez
for
Channing Frye/Jamal Crawford/Malik Rose

Works under the cap. Gives the Magic a good scorer at SG in Crawford(something the Magic sorely lack, consistent scoring from the guards, Crawford might excel better in a structured offense like Brian Hill runs) and some offense from the PF in Frye.

Magic lineup turns into:
Nelson/Crawford/Turkoglu/Frye/Howard
Thats a tough team to beat, gives them a ton of depth on the bench, makes the Magic players in the Eastern Conference.

For the Knicks, whether we like it or not folks, this is still a rebuilding process. This trade gives the Knicks a little cap flexibility and allows them to get under the cap sooner than the summer of 08/09, going into next year, the cap number would be 69million, not great, but much more manageable than 86 million. Also this trade allows the Knicks to take a chance on a foreign player like Vasquez, who is supposedly good but didn't want to play for Orlando. The bright lights of NYC might just get him over here.

Curious to see your thoughts on the deal. I honestly don't think the Knicks are losing that much by making the deal. Crawford is woefully inconsistent and this trade allows to send him packing to a team that plays a structured offense and might get the best of him, along with Frye with a chance to expedite our cap process and add a player with some potential in the deal.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-10-2007 3:15 PM]

nyk4ever
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2/10/2007  3:55 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

why do this mid season? To help Chicago? If ypu that desperately want cap room why not win a little bit first and have a more enjoyable season?

We can't worry about the pick going to Chicago anymore, our pick is gone, it doesn't matter who has the pick, we dont and we wont have it. We have to move forward with getting our franchise straightened out and the only way to do it is by straightening out the cap situation.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TheGame
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2/10/2007  4:01 PM
People here would seriously give up Frye AND Crawford (who has the rare ability of playing better as the pressure increases in the 4th quarter) for Hill, who is likely to retire within the next 2 years, and Fran, a guy who already rejected playing in the NBA once and might never want to play in the league. For what, cap room? We are going to be over the cap anyway, so what's the point. Now if the Magic were willing to take back Francis or one of our other bad contracts (i.e. the JJs), then the trade makes more sense but even then I would not give up two talented players like Frye and Crawford, who both make a reasonable salary (i.e., they are tradeable), for a bunch of junk (Hill's not junk but he is old and likely will not play more than 2 more seasons). The trade would have to at least include Darko, but even then, the trade would serve no purpose because we would have to resign Darko to a big contract at the end of the season or lose him.





[Edited by - thegame on 02-10-2007 4:05 PM]
Trust the Process
nykshaknbake
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2/10/2007  4:08 PM
I'm just saying that there's not a strong case to do this mid-season. WHy not win some more build up team confidence and the get cap room in the off-season if that's the direction we would be headed? Doing this now would kind of put us in reverse/neutral instead of moving forward like we have. It wouldn't get us cap room any sooner either.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

why do this mid season? To help Chicago? If ypu that desperately want cap room why not win a little bit first and have a more enjoyable season?

We can't worry about the pick going to Chicago anymore, our pick is gone, it doesn't matter who has the pick, we dont and we wont have it. We have to move forward with getting our franchise straightened out and the only way to do it is by straightening out the cap situation.

jaydh
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2/10/2007  4:10 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i would trade crawford + quentin for hill's expiring.


Me too, it would clear out some of the glut at the 2/3 now and even more-so at the end of the season.
firefly
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2/10/2007  4:15 PM
Well, check this out. Wow, I havent used tradechecker in ages!

Here's a deal that is truly fair for everyone, especially for Orlando, who are getting a great deal.

Orlando Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Grant Hill6-8 SF from Duke
15.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.0 minutes
Darko Milicic 7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.5 minutes
J.J. Redick 6-5 SG from Duke
6.7 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 15.8 minutes

Incoming
Malik Rose 6-7 PF from Drexel
2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 9.4 minutes
Jamal Crawford 6-5 SG from Michigan
17.8 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.5 apg in 37.4 minutes
Channing Frye 6-11 PF from Arizona
10.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 26.1 minutes
Kevin Ollie 6-2 PG from Connecticut
4.3 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 20.1 minutes

Change in team outlook: +5.0 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and +4.5 apg.


New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Quentin Richardson 6-6 SG from DePaul
13.2 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.9 minutes
Malik Rose 6-7 PF from Drexel
2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 9.4 minutes
Jamal Crawford 6-5 SG from Michigan
17.8 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.5 apg in 37.4 minutes
Channing Frye 6-11 PF from Arizona
10.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 26.1 minutes

Incoming

Grant Hill 6-8 SF from Duke
15.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 apg in 31.0 minutes
Darko Milicic 7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.5 minutes
J.J. Redick 6-5 SG from Duke
6.7 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 15.8 minutes
Kyle Korver 6-6 SF from Creighton
14.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 31.3 minutes

Change in team outlook: +0.1 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and -2.5 apg.


Philadelphia Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Kyle Korver 6-6 SF from Creighton
14.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 31.3 minutes
Kevin Ollie 6-2 PG from Connecticut
4.3 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 20.1 minutes

Incoming
Quentin Richardson 6-6 SG from DePaul
13.2 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.9 minutes

Change in team outlook: -5.1 ppg, +1.9 rpg, and -2.0 apg.

Successful Scenario

OK. It may seem bit, but it actually isnt.

Orlando trades Hill, Darko and Reddick, get back Crawford and Frye with a couple of good vets in Rose (would do well backing up Howard ala TD) and Ollie.

Nelson
Crawford
Hedo
Frye
Howard


Philly trades Korver and Ollie and get back Q. In my opinion, this is a clear win for Philly. They trade a one dimenional SF and get back a better rebounder and better all-round player. The snag here is the back, but otherwise, its a great deal for
Philly.

Miller
Q
Iggy
Smith
Dalembert

Knicks trade Crawford, Frye, Malik Rose and Q - get back Grant Hill, Darko, Reddick and Korver.

OK, we lose Frye. Yes he is a future star and a pure shooter. True, we lose crawford, a clutch player and good competitor. Worst of all, we lose Q, tough player, solid shooter and great rebounder at the guard position. In return we get back Korver (For the shooting), Darko (upgrade at the PF to help out Curry), Reddick (currently for the shooting, with the real posibility of bossoming into a star) and Hill, a stopgap at sf and massive saving in cap-room.

Marbury
Korver
Hill
Darko
Curry

Lee, JJ, Nate, Redick, JJ.


I think this deal is fair for everyone, and actually consolidates our assets into pieces that we need.

Phew!! Now I remember why I dont do trades anymore.



[Edited by - firefly on 02-10-2007 4:20 PM]
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
crzymdups
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2/10/2007  4:42 PM
no way Zeke helps Orlando make the playoffs. we're fighting for the same spot.
¿ △ ?
nyk4ever
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2/10/2007  4:43 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

no way Zeke helps Orlando make the playoffs. we're fighting for the same spot.

Are you ok with that though?

I understand its good to fight for the playoffs, but it's one thing to try and fight for the playoffs, no matter what and it's one thing to realize that even if we do make the playoffs, we likely won't escape the 1st round. This is still a rebuilding situation and we need to take the necessary steps to cut our payroll when the opportunities present them self. I feel this is one of those opportunities.
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Elite
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2/10/2007  4:50 PM
channing frye is not so bad that we should just give him away.. come on
crzymdups
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2/10/2007  4:50 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:

no way Zeke helps Orlando make the playoffs. we're fighting for the same spot.

Are you ok with that though?

I understand its good to fight for the playoffs, but it's one thing to try and fight for the playoffs, no matter what and it's one thing to realize that even if we do make the playoffs, we likely won't escape the 1st round. This is still a rebuilding situation and we need to take the necessary steps to cut our payroll when the opportunities present them self. I feel this is one of those opportunities.

why is this a rebuilding situation? Magic are 12-20 in their last 32 games, we're 16-16 in our last 32 games. the Knicks need to see if they can make the playoffs with this group and then make major changes if they can't.
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Anji
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2/10/2007  4:51 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Anji:

And would the Magic get rid of Hill when he makes the team play better and they can sign who ever they want in the offseason????? They have zero reason..........

they have a chance to make the playoffs. hill's expiring + darko could return a very nice piece that they can use long term. they have to decide whether they can get someone better this offseason via free agency than they can get now via trade. i feel grant will leave them and go someplace to win a ring (if he decides to keep playing). and by making the trade, they can then re-sign darko without any worries b/c of the bird rule. but if they enter free agency, they can't sign a free agent and then sign darko to go over the cap - they need to sign darko first.

out of the realm of possibility deal: jameer + darko + grant for joe johnson.

They are 20 million dollars under the cap after this year.......... if they want Darko and the wing player thye believe they are missing, they can structure two deals to keep them both. 8 for Darko and 12 for who ever are their limits year one.... they can get anybody with that.
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Magic Looking to deal Grant Hills expiring. How about this... ?

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