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Isiah's record after 50 games in his 1st year at Indiana? 22-28
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newyorknewyork
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2/9/2007  8:14 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

We have no Idea what Curry can become yet.

offensively, i agree. but he will never be as good a defender as jermaine.

He won't even come close. Im just hoping he ups his rebounding, and swats a couple more shots, though I don't expect him to shut down the paint.
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newyorknewyork
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2/9/2007  8:21 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I think two years of .500 ball and then the wheels coming off the wagon is entirely plausible for us too.

Its definatly possible. But if we don't make any more bad trades. In 2 yrs after this one. Marbury & Francis would be in there walking yrs. Crawford would have 2 yrs left. Q would have 1 more yr. James would have 1 more yr. Houston, Anderson, Rose, Willaims, Rose will be off the books. Curry will be expendable and attractive. We would be in a very flexible position. Then there is Frye, Nate, Balkman, Lee.
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BlueSeats
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2/9/2007  8:29 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by BlueSeats:

I think two years of .500 ball and then the wheels coming off the wagon is entirely plausible for us too.

Its definatly possible. But if we don't make any more bad trades. In 2 yrs after this one. Marbury & Francis would be in there walking yrs. Crawford would have 2 yrs left. Q would have 1 more yr. James would have 1 more yr. Houston, Anderson, Rose, Willaims, Rose will be off the books. Curry will be expendable and attractive. We would be in a very flexible position. Then there is Frye, Nate, Balkman, Lee.



IOW, our optimism comes from marking time till our players are off the books or off the team, and with this franchise there's no telling which comes first.

Then we have to hope Isiah isn't back to dealing expirings for whatever "name" is available on any given day.
crzymdups
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2/9/2007  9:37 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

in 2002 - they were .500 all the way through the entire season
in 2003 - they were 33-12, then finished up 15-22

2002 was Isiah's second year as coach.

2003 they were great and then had to endure injuries and personal tragedy. but, you're right when your franchise player's father shoots himself in the head, you just have to play through it. no excuses! horrible coaching by Isiah IMHO!!
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Rich
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2/9/2007  9:39 PM
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.
djsunyc
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2/9/2007  9:39 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

in 2002 - they were .500 all the way through the entire season
in 2003 - they were 33-12, then finished up 15-22

2002 was Isiah's second year as coach.

2003 they were great and then had to endure injuries and personal tragedy. but, you're right when your franchise player's father shoots himself in the head, you just have to play through it. no excuses! horrible coaching by Isiah IMHO!!

i'm just presenting the numbers. interpret them how you wish.
crzymdups
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2/9/2007  9:39 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

in 2002 - they were .500 all the way through the entire season
in 2003 - they were 33-12, then finished up 15-22

2002 was Isiah's second year as coach.

2003 they were great and then had to endure injuries and personal tragedy. but, you're right when your franchise player's father shoots himself in the head, you just have to play through it. no excuses! horrible coaching by Isiah IMHO!!

i'm just presenting the numbers. interpret them how you wish.

no excuses!
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crzymdups
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2/9/2007  9:40 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.

no, he's not. but apparently he's very good at making other team's franchise players look like little boys.
¿ △ ?
djsunyc
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2/9/2007  9:47 PM
2 months does not make a franchise player. he has a long way to go before you can call him that. well, you know what, technically, he is OUR franchise player. but in terms of the league, he has to put in the time.
crzymdups
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2/9/2007  9:49 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

2 months does not make a franchise player. he has a long way to go before you can call him that. well, you know what, technically, he is OUR franchise player. but in terms of the league, he has to put in the time.

yes, which is why I said the situations were similar to begin with. no one was calling JOneal a franchise player in feb 2001.
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islesfan
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2/9/2007  11:38 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

in 2002 - they were .500 all the way through the entire season
in 2003 - they were 33-12, then finished up 15-22

2002 was Isiah's second year as coach.

2003 they were great and then had to endure injuries and personal tragedy. but, you're right when your franchise player's father shoots himself in the head, you just have to play through it. no excuses! horrible coaching by Isiah IMHO!!

Jermaine O'Neal, the real franchise player, was so inconsolable in that playoff series that season that he ONLY averaged 23 pts and 18 rebounds a game.

What was everybody else's excuse?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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2/9/2007  11:40 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.

no, he's not. but apparently he's very good at making other team's franchise players look like little boys.

As long as they start another center to do half his work.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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2/9/2007  11:47 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

2 months does not make a franchise player. he has a long way to go before you can call him that. well, you know what, technically, he is OUR franchise player. but in terms of the league, he has to put in the time.

yes, which is why I said the situations were similar to begin with. no one was calling JOneal a franchise player in feb 2001.


Actually at that point O'Neal was a 13pt, 10 reb and 3 block a game player. Not that much of a stretch to see a player that could dominate either side of the ball. He's basically been a 20/10, 3 blocks and great defense player since. That's a far cry from being a 20/7, .5 blocks and no defense player.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nykshaknbake
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2/9/2007  11:51 PM
What the hell are you talking about? It's not like James even had significant minutes. Do you actually watch the games or just browse the SLs?
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.

no, he's not. but apparently he's very good at making other team's franchise players look like little boys.

As long as they start another center to do half his work.
bobs3304
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2/9/2007  11:54 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

...and they made the playoffs. I posted this in another thread, but this seems to be worth it's own thread.

The Pacers in 00-01 finished 41-41 and made the playoffs as the youngest team ever to do so. They have the exact same record as we do now, in Isiah's first year in New York (as coach).

The situations are similar, they had JOneal, a young post player in his first year with Thomas (first year with Thomas 13ppg, 10rpg, 2bpg; second year with Thomas 19.5ppg, 10rpg, 3bpg) and made a trade to get two other young front court players: Brad Miller and Ron Artest.

In Thomas' second year as Pacers coach the team went 25-25 after 50 games. In his third year they were 35-15 after 50 games and considered the best team in the East (unfortunately as always happens with the Pacers, seemingly, they were undone by tragedy, fights, player's parents committing suicide and all sorts of awful stuff).

STILL, the situations are similar.


Wow, surprising as hell, but GREAT find.

Let's not forget though, that he wasn't the GM also. I think it's probably wiser to bring in someone from the outside that has a better trading track record. Make Isiah assistant GM if ya must.


I think we should go after a shotblocking SF, seeing as how David Lee has probly proven he's the starting PF.

Look at Utah....they don't have a shotblocker at the 4 and 5 positions, but they're still one of the best in tha league.

We need a Gerald Wallace IMO.


Curry:: Okur
Lee:: Boozer
Wallace:: AK
QRich:: Harpring
Marbury:: Deron


Pretty close if you ask me...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
islesfan
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2/9/2007  11:59 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

What the hell are you talking about? It's not like James even had significant minutes. Do you actually watch the games or just browse the SLs?
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.

no, he's not. but apparently he's very good at making other team's franchise players look like little boys.

As long as they start another center to do half his work.

True or False:

Did James start the Orlando game so that Curry could hide from Howard and not have to defend him?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
bobs3304
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2/10/2007  12:13 AM
Actualy a guy we might wanna look into is Josh Childress.......better 3 pt. shooter than Wallace, and most definitely available considering the ****in PLETHORA of SF's they have.


Frye and Nate for Childress and a top 5 protected pick...... straight up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PTMmziW8ZSk

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 02-10-2007 12:15 AM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nykshaknbake
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2/10/2007  12:20 AM
Well considering D. Howard played a full 35 minutes and James only 15 I guess it wasn't a very sucessful time 'hiding' was it? Minutes played may be more important than who starts. If you had to hide Eddy from Howard as you say, the Big Game would be getting real starter minutes.
SO do you actually watch the games?
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

What the hell are you talking about? It's not like James even had significant minutes. Do you actually watch the games or just browse the SLs?
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.

no, he's not. but apparently he's very good at making other team's franchise players look like little boys.

As long as they start another center to do half his work.

True or False:

Did James start the Orlando game so that Curry could hide from Howard and not have to defend him?
Rich
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2/10/2007  12:23 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.

no, he's not. but apparently he's very good at making other team's franchise players look like little boys.

As long as they start another center to do half his work.

*yawn*
islesfan
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2/10/2007  12:28 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry is a franchise player.

no, he's not. but apparently he's very good at making other team's franchise players look like little boys.

As long as they start another center to do half his work.

*yawn*

That was an awesome imitation of Curry on defense.

You got that one down cold.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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Isiah's record after 50 games in his 1st year at Indiana? 22-28
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