[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Why you trade Lee or Frye
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
2/6/2007  1:04 PM
yeah he did. and they almost always are mutually exlusive. obviously the more a young players plays the faster he will develop and vice versa. however playing someone that young as opposed to a vet will mean less wins.

Well I missed the part where he said "Not to develop young players", but I'll take your word for it.

Developing young players and winning is most certainly not mutually exclusive. As they develop, they win more. I understand that you may take a hit in experience that costs you some games, but you can still win at a respectable rate.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
AUTOADVERT
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
2/6/2007  1:19 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Both players will have the same trade value next year as they do this year... Let's not make a trade because we have the assets..Lets trade because we have a player that will fill our needs...True one will have to be a bench player if we keep both...But there is enough minutes there where they can be happy for now...I'm very reluctant about getting rid of Frye because he can step right in if Curry goes down...Lee we also have to keep because this guy has grown so much and he isn't finished growing yet...It's like trading Ariza before he realized his potential..you never get fair value...Frye and Lee are talents that work at their craft, they will get better...Trade them now, we won't get good value for them at this point....


Nice, now we are finally talking. I understand it's a nice luxury to have Frye should Curry go down, but that to me is today thinking. That's worrying about wins should Curry go down with a long-term injury. To me that's not important. What's important is filling out the core. If we trade Frye for another position and Curry goes down, so be it. We are being "patient" anyway so that shouldn't matter.

As for the actual trade time frame. You don't make a trade unless the right fit comes along. For example trading Ariza was not a bad thing. Trading aRiza for an older player that doesn't fit your roster is a bad thing. Hopefully this is something we can avoid. Every move should be made by keeping Curry at 27, 28, 29 and 30 in mind. If this new player doesn't fit you don't make a trade. I dont' think anyone is advocating trading righ tnow just to get one of them on the roster, so why discuss it? We all want the same thing. Fans aren't so impatient that thye just want one guy gone. What they want is for our front office to address things they haven't addressed in 7 years. Find a core and build around it with complimentary players.
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
Posts: 31973
Alba Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2002
Member: #290
USA
2/6/2007  1:45 PM
https:// It's not so hard.
King1
Posts: 22993
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/2/2005
Member: #998
USA
2/6/2007  1:59 PM
The longer you play in this league the more warts they find on your game. You could have traded Frye for about any player in the league last year. This year he hasnt adjusted to the game and people are seeing what he cant do and his trade value has declined
King1
Posts: 22993
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/2/2005
Member: #998
USA
2/6/2007  2:02 PM
If Knicks fans think you can win with Curry in the middle then good luck. Since he refuses to play D this team has to try and get a defensive PF and a defensive guard so no one can get into the lane. Curry is very good offensively but every other part of his game is terrible.
martin
Posts: 80901
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/6/2007  2:18 PM
Posted by King1:

If Knicks fans think you can win with Curry in the middle then good luck. Since he refuses to play D this team has to try and get a defensive PF and a defensive guard so no one can get into the lane. Curry is very good offensively but every other part of his game is terrible.

Strangely, last year, you could have said that the offensive part of his game was terrible, now it's not. I give him until the beginning of next season to show me significant progress in that area.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
mattshaw78
Posts: 20908
Alba Posts: 52
Joined: 6/23/2005
Member: #915
2/6/2007  2:21 PM
It drives me crazy that Curry doesn't put the same effort in his defense like he does with his offense. And this guy still has problems passing the ball when he is double-covered.
BlueSeats "I like anyone who can make Lebron cry. Melo seems to do it a lot."
fishmike
Posts: 53903
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/6/2007  2:23 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...



actually isiah has gone on record as saying that last year the focus was on to win games, and not to develop the young players.

Did Isiah actually say that the focus was to win, and not to develop young players?

Why are winning and development considered to be mutually exclusive on this board?

Curry and Lee have certainly shown strong development.

oohah
kinda funny he's failing at both

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
Posts: 30002
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
2/6/2007  2:25 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I called for the same thing after the '99 title run when we were left with Spree and Allan. I said we would be better served trading one of them for youth or at another position of weakness instead of having 2 good players that play the same position. I was crucified. We all know how that turned out.

I believe we do. Back-to-back-to-back championships on mustafaab's playstation.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
2/6/2007  2:37 PM
Posted by King1:

The longer you play in this league the more warts they find on your game. You could have traded Frye for about any player in the league last year. This year he hasnt adjusted to the game and people are seeing what he cant do and his trade value has declined

I just depends on what you are looking at...A guy with the talent of Frye can get better...Lee trade value is much higher this year than last...You are counting on players peaking in their first year..
King1
Posts: 22993
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/2/2005
Member: #998
USA
2/6/2007  2:43 PM
If you were Frye or Lee and tw yeard down the road both of your are splitting time and getting 25 minutes a game because you have Jeffires and JJ still getting minutes what would you do? Doesnt sound like a hard sell for a team to come give you 50 million and 35 minutes a game. If you dont trade one now then you will lose them in free agency downt the road and get nothing.
Masterplan
Posts: 21571
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2002
Member: #362
2/6/2007  2:44 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...


something like that means next to nothing, oftimes teams will go on runs or finish the season strong only to come out and suck for all of the season after. its true that the knicks are 3 games under 500 since november, but snipping out and analyzing mini stretch like that.. I dont think anyone could get a true sense of how good this or any other team is from something like that.

anyway i have question, when marbs, francis and possibly q are gone, how will this team be competive? after 2 of those 3 are improtant peices to this team.

That "mini strech" is two thirds of the season....After a 5-11 start in November, the Knicks are 16-17 in December,January,and now February...The way the Knicks are player now, Do you think the go on a big win streak or a big losing streak...I say the former is more likely...

That Marbs/Francis question is 2.5 years away...If they are still the focus of the Knicks then the Knicks are really screwed....They won't win...It's the challenge of the coach and front office to make Frye,Curry and Lee the focus...

FYI, that mini-stretch is less than half the season, definitely not two-thirds - 33 games- closer to one third than to even a half...

that aside, if we're planning for 2-3 years away when marbs steve and Q may be gone, doesn't it make sense to have a young stud we're grooming for that day? with all the talk of chemistry and time to gel, we can't expect to slap on a draft pick or ray allen and win it all. what if we traded frye for that SG or PG now? guys like roy or deron williams are beyond what we could get, but swap channing for that next tier perimeter player? i'd do it.
King1
Posts: 22993
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/2/2005
Member: #998
USA
2/6/2007  2:45 PM
Lee is much higher and I dont think it can get higher. Frye wont get higher than it was last year and being hurt two years in a row the durability issue will come up. Trade high and take advantage of someone.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
2/6/2007  2:56 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...


something like that means next to nothing, oftimes teams will go on runs or finish the season strong only to come out and suck for all of the season after. its true that the knicks are 3 games under 500 since november, but snipping out and analyzing mini stretch like that.. I dont think anyone could get a true sense of how good this or any other team is from something like that.

anyway i have question, when marbs, francis and possibly q are gone, how will this team be competive? after 2 of those 3 are improtant peices to this team.

That "mini strech" is two thirds of the season....After a 5-11 start in November, the Knicks are 16-17 in December,January,and now February...The way the Knicks are player now, Do you think the go on a big win streak or a big losing streak...I say the former is more likely...

That Marbs/Francis question is 2.5 years away...If they are still the focus of the Knicks then the Knicks are really screwed....They won't win...It's the challenge of the coach and front office to make Frye,Curry and Lee the focus...

FYI, that mini-stretch is less than half the season, definitely not two-thirds - 33 games- closer to one third than to even a half...

that aside, if we're planning for 2-3 years away when marbs steve and Q may be gone, doesn't it make sense to have a young stud we're grooming for that day? with all the talk of chemistry and time to gel, we can't expect to slap on a draft pick or ray allen and win it all. what if we traded frye for that SG or PG now? guys like roy or deron williams are beyond what we could get, but swap channing for that next tier perimeter player? i'd do it.

Two thirds of the season thus far is what I mean...What you want to do is what is passionately referred around here as Starphucking...I never against trading anyone to get better...Let's just not make a trade for the sake of making a splash or for a big name...Let do it within the context of what the Knicks is trying to do to improve...If you want to trade Frye, find the player first to target then use Frye as a piece to get him and not the other way around...Sounds simple but huge difference...For example if you target a guy like Pietrus, you see what the Knicks can offer keeping in mind that Frye is not untouchable...My other point is that we don't trade for a guy that can help us the next two years when the Knicks will not be ready to make a true run...Like a Ray Allen trade...Grow and build with the yoots is my motto...
King1
Posts: 22993
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/2/2005
Member: #998
USA
2/6/2007  2:59 PM
I can live with that but when you trade Ariza for Francis is Isiah really trying to play with the younger men.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
2/6/2007  3:00 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bippity10:

I called for the same thing after the '99 title run when we were left with Spree and Allan. I said we would be better served trading one of them for youth or at another position of weakness instead of having 2 good players that play the same position. I was crucified. We all know how that turned out.

I believe we do. Back-to-back-to-back championships on mustafaab's playstation.


I stil remember the championship parade in Mustaffa's back yard. What a night.
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
2/6/2007  3:01 PM
Posted by King1:

I can live with that but when you trade Ariza for Francis is Isiah really trying to play with the younger men.

That has been much argued in these pages...Just a really bad deal..Do you really believe that Lee has peaked in his second year?...
King1
Posts: 22993
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/2/2005
Member: #998
USA
2/6/2007  3:15 PM
I think Lee will a 14 point 12 rebound per game in his prime. His defense will get better, but you have a kid that is cheap for the next two years so you get a good player for him and live with Frye at the four and he should be a 15 point 8 rebound and you filled another weakness on your team. Next year his value goes down because he get closer to getting paid.
Masterplan
Posts: 21571
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2002
Member: #362
2/6/2007  3:48 PM
Posted by holfresh:

What you want to do is what is passionately referred around here as Starphucking...I never against trading anyone to get better...Let's just not make a trade for the sake of making a splash or for a big name...Let do it within the context of what the Knicks is trying to do to improve...If you want to trade Frye, find the player first to target then use Frye as a piece to get him and not the other way around...Sounds simple but huge difference...For example if you target a guy like Pietrus, you see what the Knicks can offer keeping in mind that Frye is not untouchable...

with all politeness and respect...

did you even read my post (the longer paragraph, not the short one)?

i am by no means advocating starphuching. not at all. did you just skim it and read "ray allen" and interpret that as me advocating getting him to "win it all"? i am totally bewildered at how trading frye for another young player (my examples were either rookies or sophs just like him, pietrus is an option i guess, but i don't know enough about him) is starphuching.
My other point is that we don't trade for a guy that can help us the next two years when the Knicks will not be ready to make a true run...Like a Ray Allen trade...

i agree. that would be starphuching. i specifically mentioned that trading for ray allen would be a BAD idea.
Grow and build with the yoots is my motto...

and i agree again! my point was, grow with youth that don't all play the same position. if a good trade comes up to move frye for a young guard, i'd do it. that was my point. not "dunp frye," not "get ray allen."

[Edited by - Masterplan on 02-06-2007 3:49 PM]

[Edited by - Masterplan on 02-06-2007 3:49 PM]
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
2/6/2007  4:59 PM
Posted by oohah:
yeah he did. and they almost always are mutually exlusive. obviously the more a young players plays the faster he will develop and vice versa. however playing someone that young as opposed to a vet will mean less wins.

Well I missed the part where he said "Not to develop young players", but I'll take your word for it.

Developing young players and winning is most certainly not mutually exclusive. As they develop, they win more. I understand that you may take a hit in experience that costs you some games, but you can still win at a respectable rate.

oohah

wow thanks but you shouldnt, especically since it is a strong remark, and if i remember he didnt say that he wouldnt develop young players just that the priority was on winning. im going to try my ass off (again) to find that quote though, hopefully i do. and about the other thing its true that you shouldnt take too great a hit in wins if the focus is on developing youth but that the wins would take a hit none the less.
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Why you trade Lee or Frye
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy