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Thoughts on Curry v. Bynum
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djsunyc
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1/31/2007  10:35 AM
tms, i know you're a crawford fan, and ben gordon may seem just as much a chucker to you as some would say about jamal, but look at the #'s:

ben gordon's fg% his first 3 years went from 41.1% to 42.2% to 46.5%

the guy is getting BETTER and more efficient. he's a better player than jamal, and this is only his 3rd year. and his team wins more than they lose. there's a reason paxson doesn't want to trade him.
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Bonn1997
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1/31/2007  10:40 AM
Posted by MS:

Curry is a great offensive player, he also had 7 turnovers and let the Lakers pretty much go right up the middle. You don't judge on one game, Curry should be dominating out there he is a massive force and has 60 pounds on the kid and knows how to use his body.
Curry's ungaurdable one on one. TMS is right that no one can stop him. However, you can kill us right now by double teaming him. Curry obviously outplayed Bynum last night, but I thought Bynum's low post moves (including the ones that didn't go in) were very impressive for a 19 year old. The foul calls against him were rough and took him out of the game a bit.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01-31-2007 10:41 AM]
TMS
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1/31/2007  10:44 AM
as a playmaker i'll take Jamal over him in a heartbeat... & in the clutch, do you really think Gordon is head & shoulders over Jamal? i don't... overall Gordon is the better player, but i don't see Jamal trailing him by as much as you think he does.
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islesfan
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1/31/2007  10:46 AM
Posted by TMS:

how does a team like Chicago have a better shot at getting a franchise guy over the Knicks? unless they're getting Oden this year, i don't see any other player w/more upside potential than Curry in the draft... how is Curry, D Lee, Channing & Balkman a less likely young core to get us a franchise player than Deng, TT, Gordon & Hinrich?

Charlotte has Okafor... ok, that's 1... Morrison? sorry, no... i'll take D Lee or Curry over him in a heartbeat... who does Memphis have? they're looking to trade Gasol at this point & he hasn't been healthy all year... how are Warrick & Gay any better than what we have? i'll take Curry or D Lee over any of their young players.

You talk about Curry like he's this franchise dominant player. He's not. The only thing he does is score. Even then he's only 25th in the NBA. That's good but hardly dominant. Or maybe you think Kevin Martin is a dominant franchise player because he averages more than Curry.

I'll bet you anything that in this years draft there will be at least one player (Durant and eventually Oden for sure) who averages more points than Curry does now within 2 years. Throw in the other parts of the game, like defense and passing and rebounding and there will be a lot of better players, not scorers, but players, than Curry in this years draft.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Elite
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1/31/2007  10:47 AM
The only thing Gordan has over Jamal is focus
TMS
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1/31/2007  10:49 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by MS:

Curry is a great offensive player, he also had 7 turnovers and let the Lakers pretty much go right up the middle. You don't judge on one game, Curry should be dominating out there he is a massive force and has 60 pounds on the kid and knows how to use his body.
Curry's ungaurdable one on one. TMS is right that no one can stop him. However, you can kill us right now by double teaming him. Curry obviously outplayed Bynum last night, but I thought Bynum's low post moves (including the ones that didn't go in) were very impressive for a 19 year old. The foul calls against him were rough and took him out of the game a bit.

those foul calls were legitimate & caused by Curry's aggressiveness going to the hole in the paint... he's going to learn how to defend the post w/o committing those fouls later w/more development, & i do think Bynum showed some very good defensive instincts for a young kid... didn't see the passing skills that some of you are harping on though, but i'm sure Kobe's absence had something to do w/that.

as for killing the Knicks w/a double team on Curry, it's up to his teammates to knock down open jumpers when teams do that... the only thing Curry has any hand in there is to learn when & how to pass out of the double team, & when to reverse the ball & take it up on the weak side w/o drawing an offensive foul... i thought he did a very good job of that last night.
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djsunyc
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1/31/2007  10:50 AM
Posted by TMS:

as a playmaker i'll take Jamal over him in a heartbeat... & in the clutch, do you really think Gordon is head & shoulders over Jamal? i don't... overall Gordon is the better player, but i don't see Jamal trailing him by as much as you think he does.

wasn't gordon the best 4th quarter player in the league 2 years ago? remember all those game winners he hit on us. he's just as clutch.

you're right tho, jamal is more of a playmaker (as he's asked to run the point at times) but as playmaker, still commits a ton of turnovers and too many times, looks for his own shot if the curry option is not there.

now gordon does have a more defined role in that he's more of a sg than playmaker, but he's also been in and out of the starting lineup and is still hitting on all cylinders.

as a starter, he's averaging 19.4 ppg on 47% fg.
off the bench, he's averaging 22.6 ppg on 46% fg.

those #'s are pretty darn sick and is up there with some of the best shooters in the league. in fact, he's the 4th best shooter out of all the nba guards. he's EXCELLING in that department. whereas jamal is not excelling in any department and has holes in alot of them.

they're two different players but gordon is better and again, only in his 3rd season.
MS
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1/31/2007  10:51 AM
Leave the site for saying you would take Crawford over Ben Gordon, he sucked again last night, turned the ball over a ton and who was guarding him Smush parker, mo evans......Jamal has regressed again in his field goals and shot selection, gordon hits just as many big shots every game as jamal does without ****ing the entire offense...

Curry is not an All-Star with the way he plays on defense he is the worst rebound, shootblocking, passing center i have seen in a long time. I would take 15pts any do over his 20+ and zero defense.

The Bulls have player people want, we have DLee. They can move just about anyone and we have Francis, James, Jefferies, Rose, Marbury not one could ever be traded, so i like their future more
TMS
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1/31/2007  10:52 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:

how does a team like Chicago have a better shot at getting a franchise guy over the Knicks? unless they're getting Oden this year, i don't see any other player w/more upside potential than Curry in the draft... how is Curry, D Lee, Channing & Balkman a less likely young core to get us a franchise player than Deng, TT, Gordon & Hinrich?

Charlotte has Okafor... ok, that's 1... Morrison? sorry, no... i'll take D Lee or Curry over him in a heartbeat... who does Memphis have? they're looking to trade Gasol at this point & he hasn't been healthy all year... how are Warrick & Gay any better than what we have? i'll take Curry or D Lee over any of their young players.

You talk about Curry like he's this franchise dominant player. He's not. The only thing he does is score. Even then he's only 25th in the NBA. That's good but hardly dominant. Or maybe you think Kevin Martin is a dominant franchise player because he averages more than Curry.

I'll bet you anything that in this years draft there will be at least one player (Durant and eventually Oden for sure) who averages more points than Curry does now within 2 years. Throw in the other parts of the game, like defense and passing and rebounding and there will be a lot of better players, not scorers, but players, than Curry in this years draft.

um, no... i talk about Curry as if i know what i have in him & appreciate the positives, rather than harping on the negatives like you do... i never once said he was our dominant franchise player... the point is, none of the young players on any of those teams dj mentioned have 1 as good as him IMO (Okafor u can make an argument for).

& equating 20+ points out of the low post w/20+ points from a perimeter player is pretty moronic, don't you think?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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1/31/2007  10:53 AM
MS, how bout u leave the site for being a ****ing ***hole?
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djsunyc
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1/31/2007  10:54 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:

how does a team like Chicago have a better shot at getting a franchise guy over the Knicks? unless they're getting Oden this year, i don't see any other player w/more upside potential than Curry in the draft... how is Curry, D Lee, Channing & Balkman a less likely young core to get us a franchise player than Deng, TT, Gordon & Hinrich?

Charlotte has Okafor... ok, that's 1... Morrison? sorry, no... i'll take D Lee or Curry over him in a heartbeat... who does Memphis have? they're looking to trade Gasol at this point & he hasn't been healthy all year... how are Warrick & Gay any better than what we have? i'll take Curry or D Lee over any of their young players.

You talk about Curry like he's this franchise dominant player. He's not. The only thing he does is score. Even then he's only 25th in the NBA. That's good but hardly dominant. Or maybe you think Kevin Martin is a dominant franchise player because he averages more than Curry.

I'll bet you anything that in this years draft there will be at least one player (Durant and eventually Oden for sure) who averages more points than Curry does now within 2 years. Throw in the other parts of the game, like defense and passing and rebounding and there will be a lot of better players, not scorers, but players, than Curry in this years draft.

um, no... i talk about Curry as if i know what i have in him & appreciate the positives, rather than harping on the negatives like you do... i never once said he was our dominant franchise player... the point is, none of the young players on any of those teams dj mentioned have 1 as good as him IMO (Okafor u can make an argument for).

& equating 20+ points out of the low post w/20+ points from a perimeter player is pretty moronic, don't you think?

none of thoes young players have been in the league 6 years either.
Bippity10
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1/31/2007  10:57 AM
Bynum impresses me a lot. Not a lot of 2nd year players have the footwork in the post that he has. But Curry did what he was supposed to do offensively. Take a young guy with potential to school. That's what he did. He dominated Bynum and made him look like the youngest player in the league.

That being said Curry really needs to work on his defense and rebounding
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tkf
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1/31/2007  10:57 AM
Bynum looked good, but I don't see the athleticism that some of you guys do. He reminds me a lot of Brendan Haywood who is also a good defender and long and very strong, I think Bynum reminds me a lot of him, but with a better offensive game.....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
islesfan
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1/31/2007  10:57 AM
As for Bynum, he's still very raw but shows flashes of immense talent on both ends of the floor. You can tell he's already learned a lot with his footword and post moves. Obviously he needs to learn a lot more but at 19 I think he's got more upside than Curry does who appears to be nothing more than a scorer, if his team uses him as their first and second option.

It come down to this: Curry might always be a better scorer but Bynum will be the better basketball player.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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1/31/2007  10:59 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TMS:

as a playmaker i'll take Jamal over him in a heartbeat... & in the clutch, do you really think Gordon is head & shoulders over Jamal? i don't... overall Gordon is the better player, but i don't see Jamal trailing him by as much as you think he does.

wasn't gordon the best 4th quarter player in the league 2 years ago? remember all those game winners he hit on us. he's just as clutch.

yeah, i realize he's a clutch player... i never said he wasn't... but so is Jamal dude... that's my point... he's not as inferior to Gordon as you are making him out to be imo.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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1/31/2007  11:01 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:

how does a team like Chicago have a better shot at getting a franchise guy over the Knicks? unless they're getting Oden this year, i don't see any other player w/more upside potential than Curry in the draft... how is Curry, D Lee, Channing & Balkman a less likely young core to get us a franchise player than Deng, TT, Gordon & Hinrich?

Charlotte has Okafor... ok, that's 1... Morrison? sorry, no... i'll take D Lee or Curry over him in a heartbeat... who does Memphis have? they're looking to trade Gasol at this point & he hasn't been healthy all year... how are Warrick & Gay any better than what we have? i'll take Curry or D Lee over any of their young players.

You talk about Curry like he's this franchise dominant player. He's not. The only thing he does is score. Even then he's only 25th in the NBA. That's good but hardly dominant. Or maybe you think Kevin Martin is a dominant franchise player because he averages more than Curry.

I'll bet you anything that in this years draft there will be at least one player (Durant and eventually Oden for sure) who averages more points than Curry does now within 2 years. Throw in the other parts of the game, like defense and passing and rebounding and there will be a lot of better players, not scorers, but players, than Curry in this years draft.

um, no... i talk about Curry as if i know what i have in him & appreciate the positives, rather than harping on the negatives like you do... i never once said he was our dominant franchise player... the point is, none of the young players on any of those teams dj mentioned have 1 as good as him IMO (Okafor u can make an argument for).

& equating 20+ points out of the low post w/20+ points from a perimeter player is pretty moronic, don't you think?

There is no argument, Okafor is a much better player than Curry.

Do you honestly not see a single player with more upside than Curry in this upcoming draft??? If you don't then I'm sorry but you are drastically overrating Curry.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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1/31/2007  11:02 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TMS:

as a playmaker i'll take Jamal over him in a heartbeat... & in the clutch, do you really think Gordon is head & shoulders over Jamal? i don't... overall Gordon is the better player, but i don't see Jamal trailing him by as much as you think he does.

wasn't gordon the best 4th quarter player in the league 2 years ago? remember all those game winners he hit on us. he's just as clutch.

yeah, i realize he's a clutch player... i never said he wasn't... but so is Jamal dude... that's my point... he's not as inferior to Gordon as you are making him out to be imo.

gordon ain't jordan but i bet every single gm in the league would rather have ben than jamal...except one of course.
MS
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1/31/2007  11:03 AM
how about you look at something objectively instead of being such a homer, and not recognizing that crawford doesn't have the makeup to win
tkf
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1/31/2007  11:06 AM
And guys stop with the Durant/ Oden dreams. The bulls, knicks, and lakers won't sniff these guys.. Take a look at the grizzlies, sixers, hawks, kings, those are the teams that will have a chance at these guys.....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
buddapaw
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1/31/2007  11:07 AM
To all of you guys with the franchise player argument. Is Kevin Garnett considered a franchise type player? I believe he is right, what has he won? We had Ewing for years and we never won anthing either, the same with the Jazz which has two of them Stockton and Malone. Yes it is great to have a franchise player but you also have to have a good supporting cast. So enough of this franchise player crap. You guys think that guys like that grow on trees, Jordan had to wait his turn too. The Bulls young core has been together for about 2 - 3 years more than ours, so they are further along. So let the team grow and stop drooling over other teams players.
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