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Allanfan20
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1/16/2007  12:46 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Allanfan20:

In terms of players deserving the spots, Caron Butler, deserves it more than both Joe Johnson and Paul Pierce combined. Take Shaq off that list too. Emeka Okafor deserves it more too, since Shaq hasn't even played. Even Curry is a better choice than Shaq.

In terms of the west, looking at Islesfan's list, I don't disagree with him, but I think there are players more worthy. Yao Ming deserves it, but he's injured. It's just really the same old boring names.

You're right, Butler definitely deserves more consideration. He's on par with Johnson and Pierce. On second thought I wouldn't blink an eye if he made it over either of those two.

Shaq is going to be voted in so there's no point in arguing his inclusion.

You're right, and it's kinda sad. The way they set up these all star ballots is kinda dumb anyway.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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TMS
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1/16/2007  12:50 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

i don't think fans should be voting for the Allstar team nominees... they should only vote among those players that are nominated by the sportswriters who cover these teams & the coaches & are able to make the ballot... players like Shaq who've only played in 4 games don't deserve to be on the ballot at all, much less voted in by the fans.

I'm caught in between here concerning injured players who more than likely would be All-Stars but overall I agree with you the process has no Integrity.

being injured is no one's fault, but it certainly doesn't mean you should be included in Allstar balloting also... that's a privilege that's earned through excellent play over the course of the season, not on past reputation for excellent play IMO... if you take the nomination process out of the hands of the fans & only let them vote on those that are nominated by the writers & coaches, then you at least guarantee that all those on the ballot deserve consideration.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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1/16/2007  12:53 PM
I don't think fans should get to vote. They make terrible choices.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TrueBlue
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1/16/2007  12:59 PM
Posted by Solace:

I don't think fans should get to vote. They make terrible choices.

What also makes the process even more pathetic is the fact you can vote almost as many times as you want. I work in a school district and have access to about 150-300 computers on any given day. It's stupid, it really is and if you are over the age of let's say 25 and participate in such a manner you really have to ? how you truly view the game. If players like Clyde Frazier, Benard King played today and let's say for a team other than N.Y. I'm not sure they'd get voted in with the current process in place.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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1/16/2007  1:03 PM
I think that for the most part the fans choose deserving players to start the all star game. Of course it's a popularity contest but those players are usually popular for their outstanding play.

Look at the potential starters this year:

C Shaq
F LeBron
F Bosh
G Wade
G Carter

C Yao
F Duncan
F Garnett
G Bryant
G McGrady

Aside from Shaq, and he's only an all time great, all of those players are clearly deserving of making the team.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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1/16/2007  1:07 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from Shaq, and he's only an all time great, all of those players are clearly deserving of making the team.

That's the problem. Even letting 1-2 players who aren't deserving make the team is a disgrace. Furthermore, letting players who aren't deserving be starters is really bad.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
islesfan
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1/16/2007  1:08 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from Shaq, and he's only an all time great, all of those players are clearly deserving of making the team.

That's the problem. Even letting 1-2 players who aren't deserving make the team is a disgrace. Furthermore, letting players who aren't deserving be starters is really bad.

Understood but hitting on 90% isn't too bad.

It's far worse in baseball.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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1/16/2007  1:09 PM
You also know it's a joke when players threaten not to play in the game and they've been voted in. David Stern over the past couple of yrs has had to go behind the scenes and coherse players into participating. If the players don't feel like it, then what does that tell you about the Glorified Exhibition game? Off the top of my head the players who have vocalized publicly threatening about not playing goes as follows

Karl Malone
Vince Carter
Jermaine O'neal
Shaq
Jason Kidd
T-Mac


I'm sure I left off a few others.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-16-2007 12:16 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
firefly
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1/16/2007  2:38 PM
I don't understand the annoyance with the All-star process. Its not like the MVP race. Its quite simply a popularity contest. The starters voted in are the players that the fans want to see, and in the All-star break, its all about what the fans want.

The subs is a different story. The coaches choose those, so you should expect the best 5 in each division.

The starters shouldn't necessarily be the best, they are just the most wanted. That's why Shaq will get in, even though he hasn't played. Also why Nazr Mohammed is ahead of EC in the voting, cuz noone outside of NY likes the Knicks.

Oh and by the way, speaking of deserving All-stars, Billups?! Why?! Has his team won this year? No. Has he been stupendously amazing this year? No. So why all the Billups jock-riding? At the G spots, I take Gilbert, Kidd, Carter, Redd, JJ, Rip, D-Wade and Mo Williams way before him.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
Solace
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1/16/2007  2:40 PM
Posted by firefly:

I don't understand the annoyance with the All-star process. Its not like the MVP race. Its quite simply a popularity contest. The starters voted in are the players that the fans want to see, and in the All-star break, its all about what the fans want.

The subs is a different story. The coaches choose those, so you should expect the best 5 in each division.

The starters shouldn't necessarily be the best, they are just the most wanted. That's why Shaq will get in, even though he hasn't played. Also why Nazr Mohammed is ahead of EC in the voting, cuz noone outside of NY likes the Knicks.

Oh and by the way, speaking of deserving All-stars, Billups?! Why?! Has his team won this year? No. Has he been stupendously amazing this year? No. So why all the Billups jock-riding? At the G spots, I take Gilbert, Kidd, Carter, Redd, JJ, Rip, D-Wade and Mo Williams way before him.

The fatal flaw is that the guys who get voted aren't necessarily fan favorites. Fans are effectively "stuffing the ballots", because they vote every day, and on multiple computers. Why even have a vote if you can't take *some measure* to see that the vote is done correctly? Players with the most notoriety are voted in.

The all-star game has in it's name, "all-star". That means that the stars, or best players should play. If that's not what it is, then they should call it, "the popularity contest game". Then there's no confusion; I just won't watch.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TMS
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1/16/2007  3:19 PM
i prefer to see an Allstar team made up of guys who deserve to get in based on how well they played that year over guys who just make it in based on their popularity myself... maybe i just prefer to see deserving guys get the recognition they deserve... the Allstar game has turned into a farce for the most part, which i don't really enjoy... i like to see new faces in these games come in & show their stuff... not older broken down players like Shaq getting in because of what they've done in years past.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
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1/16/2007  3:21 PM
Posted by firefly:

I don't understand the annoyance with the All-star process. Its not like the MVP race. Its quite simply a popularity contest. The starters voted in are the players that the fans want to see, and in the All-star break, its all about what the fans want.

The subs is a different story. The coaches choose those, so you should expect the best 5 in each division.

The starters shouldn't necessarily be the best, they are just the most wanted. That's why Shaq will get in, even though he hasn't played. Also why Nazr Mohammed is ahead of EC in the voting, cuz noone outside of NY likes the Knicks.

Oh and by the way, speaking of deserving All-stars, Billups?! Why?! Has his team won this year? No. Has he been stupendously amazing this year? No. So why all the Billups jock-riding? At the G spots, I take Gilbert, Kidd, Carter, Redd, JJ, Rip, D-Wade and Mo Williams way before him.

You see it's a joke by what I bolded and I'll explain. Let's say for giggles, (although not out of the realm of reality/possibility) that Nazr somehow garners an All-Star spot because he received enough fan votes. Let's say this is Nazr's contract yr and he's due for a new deal this off-season. One of the angles his agent will use is.....

"My client made the All-Star team because we have dumbazz fans who vote for their binkies. Please pay my client accordingly."

"Ok Nazr he's an extra $10-15mil added to your contract that you don't really deserve but hey Popularity contests can do that for a player."

THE END!

Wether you know it or not All-Star appearances are incentives built into several current player contracts.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-16-2007 2:28 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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1/16/2007  3:26 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by firefly:

I don't understand the annoyance with the All-star process. Its not like the MVP race. Its quite simply a popularity contest. The starters voted in are the players that the fans want to see, and in the All-star break, its all about what the fans want.

The subs is a different story. The coaches choose those, so you should expect the best 5 in each division.

The starters shouldn't necessarily be the best, they are just the most wanted. That's why Shaq will get in, even though he hasn't played. Also why Nazr Mohammed is ahead of EC in the voting, cuz noone outside of NY likes the Knicks.

Oh and by the way, speaking of deserving All-stars, Billups?! Why?! Has his team won this year? No. Has he been stupendously amazing this year? No. So why all the Billups jock-riding? At the G spots, I take Gilbert, Kidd, Carter, Redd, JJ, Rip, D-Wade and Mo Williams way before him.

You see it's a joke by what I bolded and I'll explain. Let's say for giggles, (although not out of the realm of reality/possibility) that Nazr somehow garners an All-Star spot because he received enough fan votes. Let's say this is Nazr's contract yr and he's due for a new deal this off-season. One of the angles his agent will use is.....

"My client made the All-Star team because we have dumbazz fans who vote for their binkies. Please pay my client accodringly."

"Ok Nazr he's an extra $10-15mil added to your contract that you don't really deserve but hey Popularity contests can do that for a player."

THE END!

Wether you know it or not All-Star appearances are incentives built several current player contracts.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-16-2007 2:25 PM]

It ain't your money.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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1/16/2007  3:32 PM
Hey islesfan we take too many peoples joys away we might want to stop.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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