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After further review (Curry trade)
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bobs3304
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1/12/2007  12:17 AM
Lets see:


Chicago will probly have the 4th best record in the East, and probly like the 8th or 9th best record in the NBA. Which lands us a pick somewhere around 20.

We'll probly end up giving Chicago around the 10th pick.


We gave them Sweets and the 2nd Pick in a weak draft -- Tyrus Thomas.

They gave us Eddy Curry.


When you look at it straight up, it looks like this:


Eddy Curry
20th Pick

~for~

Mike Sweets
Ty Thomas
10th Pick


That's essentially even IMO.


Now, if you wanna look at the residuals on each side, like the "intangibles" of the deal, you'd have to add in the fact that Chicago was able to shed a little bit of salary so they could afford to sign Ben Wallace.

And for us, we got a player whose only 24 and will most likely continue to improve. We also got Renaldo Balkman through the deal.


So when you look at it more extensively:


Ben Wallace (soon to be over the hill)
Tyrus Thomas
Mike Sweets
10th Pick

~for~

Eddy Curry (soon to be an All Star)
Renaldo Balkman
20th Pick



I'd lean toward Chicago.....


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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TemujinKnick
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1/12/2007  12:20 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Lets see:


Chicago will probly have the 4th best record in the East, and probly like the 8th or 9th best record in the NBA. Which lands us a pick somewhere around 20.

We'll probly end up giving Chicago around the 10th pick.


We gave them Sweets and the 2nd Pick in a weak draft -- Tyrus Thomas.

They gave us Eddy Curry.


When you look at it straight up, it looks like this:


Eddy Curry
20th Pick

~for~

Mike Sweets
Ty Thomas
10th Pick


That's essentially even IMO.


Now, if you wanna look at the residuals on each side, like the "intangibles" of the deal, you'd have to add in the fact that Chicago was able to shed a little bit of salary so they could afford to sign Ben Wallace.

And for us, we got a player whose only 24 and will most likely continue to improve. We also got Renaldo Balkman through the deal.


So when you look at it more extensively:


Ben Wallace (soon to be over the hill)
Tyrus Thomas
Mike Sweets
10th Pick

~for~

Eddy Curry (soon to be an All Star)
Renaldo Balkman
20th Pick



I'd lean toward Chicago.....

That only happens if we don't make the playoffs. I think the pick we give Chicago will be closer to 15.

[Edited by - TemujinKnick on 01-12-2007 12:21 AM]
bobs3304
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1/12/2007  12:25 AM
Posted by TemujinKnick:
Posted by bobs3304:

Lets see:


Chicago will probly have the 4th best record in the East, and probly like the 8th or 9th best record in the NBA. Which lands us a pick somewhere around 20.

We'll probly end up giving Chicago around the 10th pick.


We gave them Sweets and the 2nd Pick in a weak draft -- Tyrus Thomas.

They gave us Eddy Curry.


When you look at it straight up, it looks like this:


Eddy Curry
20th Pick

~for~

Mike Sweets
Ty Thomas
10th Pick


That's essentially even IMO.


Now, if you wanna look at the residuals on each side, like the "intangibles" of the deal, you'd have to add in the fact that Chicago was able to shed a little bit of salary so they could afford to sign Ben Wallace.

And for us, we got a player whose only 24 and will most likely continue to improve. We also got Renaldo Balkman through the deal.


So when you look at it more extensively:


Ben Wallace (soon to be over the hill)
Tyrus Thomas
Mike Sweets
10th Pick

~for~

Eddy Curry (soon to be an All Star)
Renaldo Balkman
20th Pick



I'd lean toward Chicago.....

That only happens if we don't make the playoffs. I think the pick we give Chicago will be closer to 15.

[Edited by - TemujinKnick on 01-12-2007 12:21 AM]

No way we make the playoffs.

Sorry buddy.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Anji
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1/12/2007  2:47 AM
WOW, you think the Bulls are a top four eastern team when they can't win on the road(20 wins and 15-5 at home), but there is no way the knicks will make the playoffs??? LOL, you guys are rich;.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
bobs3304
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1/12/2007  4:43 AM
Posted by Anji:

WOW, you think the Bulls are a top four eastern team when they can't win on the road(20 wins and 15-5 at home), but there is no way the knicks will make the playoffs??? LOL, you guys are rich;.


Why dont you go look at the standings...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
joec32033
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1/12/2007  5:15 AM
I would proably rather have kept TT and Sweetney, and the rights to the pick-we could have drafted ANYONE not just Ty Thomas. We had a shot at Roy, Foye, Gay, Sheldon Williams, and Granger) and a pick that may be Oden or maybe someone who we take a chance on-At this point from some light reserach, Al Thronton looks like a decent project. Around the time we are picking. Personally I think Isiah could have set this team up a little better, but that is another story all together.

I may not like:
Curry, Balkman, Collins, what turns out to be maybe the 20th pick in the draft.

as much as
Roy/Foye/Gay, Williams/Rondo/Lowry, Balkman, and what may turn out to be a fringe lotto pick.

It's not to knock anyone just looking to see what could have been. It is nice to have that dominant big man, and it goes a long way to helping you win(look at all the past champions-big men win championships) but you also have to leave yourself the flexibility to put good players that fit around him.

~You can't run from who you are.~
bobs3304
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1/12/2007  6:35 AM
My feeling is, if Curry loses 10 pounds going into next season, tones up more, works on his game a bit, he'll be an All-Star.

Just the extra lift in his legs will see dramatic improvement.


But still.....I'd PROBABLY rather have kept the picks, b/c that could've been Rudy Gay, plus a guy like JoeC said -- Al Horford.

Plus less salary, meaning in 2 years when Marbury and Francis expire, we'd have TONS of cash, instead of only maybe having some.


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Michael6835
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1/12/2007  8:43 AM
You still do this trade, many GMs when asked said Curry at the time and at his age still was the better selection than what was in the draft or possibly what would come out. When you draft, you draft the player with the most upside, unless it's lebron and you know he is that good. Though Curry has been in the league 6 yrs, he is only 24, so if this was old school times, he would have 4 yrs of college experience + 2 years pro experience. Judging by his progress this season, the trade is looking better and better. You could always argue that we would have possibly got the top pick, but then their is no way to predict that. It's a lottery, we had a top 10 and we got Frye. The odds of drafting a franchise player are too slim, what the knicks got in Curry was a player who has the skill to be great, BS'd his way through chicago and now maybe seems to have figured out how big he can be to this team and this sport. Ironically, he keeps this going and continues to improve and turn into a consistent all star, then this trade will go down as one of the greatest trades ever and IT would be the GM. How funny would that be ?
M
Michael6835
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1/12/2007  8:46 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

My feeling is, if Curry loses 10 pounds going into next season, tones up more, works on his game a bit, he'll be an All-Star.

Just the extra lift in his legs will see dramatic improvement.


But still.....I'd PROBABLY rather have kept the picks, b/c that could've been Rudy Gay, plus a guy like JoeC said -- Al Horford.

Plus less salary, meaning in 2 years when Marbury and Francis expire, we'd have TONS of cash, instead of only maybe having some.

Sometimes some cash is all you need, with the current way teams conduct sign and trades. It's like a work around, no one has enough money to sign someone outright, only the real garbage teams do and no one really wants to go there. Joe Johnson went to ATL and I stop hearing about him.
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Solace
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1/12/2007  9:00 AM
The trade was:

Tim Thomas
Mike Sweetney
#2 overall pick (traded for #4), which became Tyrus Thomas
2007 1st round pick (probably in the 6-11 range, assuming we miss the playoffs)
Two second round picks

for

Eddy Curry
Antonio Davis
2007 1st round pick (probably in the 18-24 range)

Guys, please stop throwing Balkman into this trade, when we traded one expiring contract of approximately the same $$ for another, just to make the $$ work. We could've traded TT for Rose + the pick had we not traded for AD. Balkman was not part of the Bulls trade.

[Edited by - Solace on Jan 12 2007 11:05 AM]

[Edited by - Solace on Jan 12 2007 11:06 AM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
lovespree
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1/12/2007  9:01 AM
Curry's numbers are inflated???? I don't get that. I agree that Curry has earned his points and props to this point.
NY KNICKS 4 EVER! Will we ever find players like Anthony Mason, Xavier McDaniels, Patrick Ewing again? I hope so.
Nalod
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1/12/2007  9:03 AM
Knicks need to do their job and get to .500 and its all good from their.

Winning makes this trade better, nothing else.

Oden looks like he is 30 years old already!
purple012870
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1/12/2007  9:07 AM
Bulls are 3 games over .500. Be careful not to overrate this team. Its not unreasonable to think that the Knicks could play a few games over .500 the rest of the way. If we end up exchanging a 14th for an 18th, the trade swap becomes a non-factor.
TMS
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1/12/2007  9:46 AM
Posted by Solace:

The trade was:

Tim Thomas
Mike Sweetney
#2 overall pick (traded for #4), which became Tyrus Thomas
2007 1st round pick (probably in the 6-11 range, assuming we miss the playoffs)

for

Eddy Curry
Antonio Davis

Guys, please stop throwing Balkman into this trade, when we traded one expiring contract of approximately the same $$ for another, just to make the $$ work. We could've traded TT for Rose + the pick had we not traded for AD. Balkman was not part of the Bulls trade.


you left out CHI's pick coming back to NY in that deal
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Anji
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1/12/2007  9:55 AM
Posted by Solace:

The trade was:

Tim Thomas
Mike Sweetney
#2 overall pick (traded for #4), which became Tyrus Thomas
2007 1st round pick (probably in the 6-11 range, assuming we miss the playoffs)

for

Eddy Curry
Antonio Davis

Guys, please stop throwing Balkman into this trade, when we traded one expiring contract of approximately the same $$ for another, just to make the $$ work. We could've traded TT for Rose + the pick had we not traded for AD. Balkman was not part of the Bulls trade.

LOL, we don't get the bulls pick anymore............. you guys are WONDERFUL!!!!!!
Ya'll see what ya'll wanna see and We'll see what we want to see. Only thing left is for he games to be played.

[Edited by - anji on 01-12-2007 09:57 AM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Masterplan
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1/12/2007  10:05 AM
i agree with all of the above posters who tried to remind people that we could have picked anyone we wanted with the #2 pick. you don't think IT could have made a good (better?) choice there?

also, people knocking rookie ty thomas shouldn't be the ones screaming about how eddy curry is going to keep improving at 24. sure he may. but so will 20 year old tyrus. and its not like we're winning anything significant over the next year or two.

i was against the trade at the time. curry's done better than i thought. never liked him in chicago, but he's impressed me this season. but we banked big time on him when we had the chance to draft multiple players to fit whatever scheme we wanted. he still has a ways to go to to prove himself, but he's on the way IMO. but as of now i still don't do it.
babyKnicks
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1/12/2007  10:17 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Why dont you go look at the standings...

Hey, you are right, the bulls are currently...SEVENTH in the east. and 4 games ahead of the knicks.
Why don't YOU look at the standings.
Also, they looked great last night against the 16-19 nets.

Posted by Masterplan:

i agree with all of the above posters who tried to remind people that we could have picked anyone we wanted with the #2 pick. you don't think IT could have made a good (better?) choice there?

also, people knocking rookie ty thomas shouldn't be the ones screaming about how eddy curry is going to keep improving at 24. sure he may. but so will 20 year old tyrus. and its not like we're winning anything significant over the next year or two.

i was against the trade at the time. curry's done better than i thought. never liked him in chicago, but he's impressed me this season. but we banked big time on him when we had the chance to draft multiple players to fit whatever scheme we wanted. he still has a ways to go to to prove himself, but he's on the way IMO. but as of now i still don't do it.

I understand this post completely masterplan, however, you are saying we have to wait 5 years to see if the trade was successfull.

But let's play message board fun and knowing what you know today, would you still do that trade and/or do you think the trade was better for the knicks?

I think it was and is only getting better.


[Edited by - babyknicks on 01-12-2007 10:18 AM]
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
islesfan
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1/12/2007  10:18 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:

The trade was:

Tim Thomas
Mike Sweetney
#2 overall pick (traded for #4), which became Tyrus Thomas
2007 1st round pick (probably in the 6-11 range, assuming we miss the playoffs)

for

Eddy Curry
Antonio Davis

Guys, please stop throwing Balkman into this trade, when we traded one expiring contract of approximately the same $$ for another, just to make the $$ work. We could've traded TT for Rose + the pick had we not traded for AD. Balkman was not part of the Bulls trade.


you left out CHI's pick coming back to NY in that deal

Also we owe the Bulls 2 second rd picks.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
babyKnicks
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1/12/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:

The trade was:

Tim Thomas
Mike Sweetney
#2 overall pick (traded for #4), which became Tyrus Thomas
2007 1st round pick (probably in the 6-11 range, assuming we miss the playoffs)

for

Eddy Curry
Antonio Davis

Guys, please stop throwing Balkman into this trade, when we traded one expiring contract of approximately the same $$ for another, just to make the $$ work. We could've traded TT for Rose + the pick had we not traded for AD. Balkman was not part of the Bulls trade.


you left out CHI's pick coming back to NY in that deal

Also we owe the Bulls 2 second rd picks.

now this is an interesting development.
Are you pointing this out because it tips the scales in the bulls favor?

Unless they turn out to be reezy or the bulls have isiah making their picks for them, I'm not so sure these guys will matter so much. But again, just my opinion.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
MS
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1/12/2007  10:20 AM
Curry is going to be a fine offensive player and a lot to handle for the rest of his career, if he makes the necessary strides and doesn't regress than the trade will end up being a good one, but if he shows the lack of conditioning in the offseason then he is a question mark.....

And lets not forget Kevin Durant is in the draft too someone that may have more upside than Odom, Hartford, Noah, there are a number of good players, and if you want to lump the balkman pick in the draft you can do so.....

I really wanted two players taken ahead of channing and it would have change the makeup of the franchise, just like isiah gambled on curry, i wanted to gamble on bynum.....

As a young core you could be looking at

Bynum
Lee
Ty Thomas or Foye or Roye
Marcus Williams

I like our team, enjoy watching them but for all the credit Isiah gets as a drafter, i don't really think last years class has all that much promise other than David Lee. Nate is a one-dimensional scorer, and frye has concrete feet and a sweet jumper.....

I didn't necessarily need marcus williams in this draft, Memphis picked the direction I thought we should have gone in and proves yet again you can get a good player in the second round....Lowry would have been a great defender, i would send nate over for him in a heartbeat....and Alexander Johnson is going to be a beast.....

So you need to look at the trade, and realize that often Isiah rushes into things trying to do to much making a horrible Francis deal, a terrible james signing, another worthless move to bring in jefferies, moves that not only take up roster space but hurt the development of the team.......

Curry has a lot of weight on his shoulders, and hopefully he delivers and makes this trade special
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