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ESPN: 10 worst moves of the offseason: Knicks make second straight appearance
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nyk4ever
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1/10/2007  6:54 PM
Jeffries is a role-player and until he's used right by Isiah Thomas, aka not starting and playing 20-25mpg off the bench, you won't see his real worth. The guy isn't a star, he's a hustle player who knows how to play defense and Isiah is trying to get more out of him that what you realistically can get. He shouldn't be shooting the ball, his points should be coming off of offensive rebounds, and slashing to the hoop for dunk. This is the kind of player he is. Defensively, when he's playing with other players willing to play defense, he's an absolute stud defender, but like any good defensive player, he can't be the only guy on the court willing to play defense. It's a collective effort.

Jeffries is an absolute solid role guy and we won't see that until he's used properly.
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bettalaylow
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1/10/2007  8:12 PM
JJ is what he is on the offensive end. but the difference he brings can be seen in a game like the Pistons game. first time we faced the Pistons, Tayshun Prince had 31pts on like 75% shooting - Jefferies was out injured. Second game - Jefferies was on him for the majority of the game and shut him down. in 3OT after Marbury fouled out, he was the only guy who could stop Rip Hamilton.

Yea your right he did a terrific job on Carmelo Anthony and Danny Granger when he got back. My personal favorite holding Ron Artest to his career high of 39 points.
This is ridiculous. Jefferies was a good signing. What's our record in games he plays? .500. I'll take that over last year's matador d from such board faves as Qyntel Woods, Matt Barnes and Ime Udoka.


You say .500 like its saying .850 thats hardly anything to be calling home about no offense.

Jeffries is a role-player and until he's used right by Isiah Thomas, aka not starting and playing 20-25mpg off the bench, you won't see his real worth. The guy isn't a star, he's a hustle player who knows how to play defense and Isiah is trying to get more out of him that what you realistically can get. He shouldn't be shooting the ball, his points should be coming off of offensive rebounds, and slashing to the hoop for dunk. This is the kind of player he is. Defensively, when he's playing with other players willing to play defense, he's an absolute stud defender, but like any good defensive player, he can't be the only guy on the court willing to play defense. It's a collective effort.

Sorry man I have to disagree with you on this but I think he's a very overrated defender. Is he better than some of the matadors in the league yes but is anywhere near stud defender no way. Would I throw 30 mil at him NO WAY IN HELL! Seriously I rather see the Knicks throw that money at a Devean George, Deshawn Stevens, or John Salmons. Just naming some guys off the top of my head.
crzymdups
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1/10/2007  8:47 PM
John Salmons is incredibly overrated. He's jamal crawford - LITE.

Jefferies is fine. We don't need another offensive player. I'd prefer he come off the bench, but as long as Lee gets his 30 minutes a night, I guess it doesn't really matter.
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Michael6835
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1/10/2007  10:44 PM
Hindsight -
I couldn't tell you the names of the other guys Barnes and Udok.. because when they came to the knicks they were journey men. To look at how they are playing now and kick ourselves because we let them go is unfair. When they were here, they didn't play like that, its a reason Barnes has been on so many teams, so it's only a matter of time before he finds one that needs his skill and he brings something to the table. Same for the other guy. Also take jeffries for what he is, he is not an offense guy, we knew that when we signed him. We got him to get stronger on the d and hustle side. Does he bring that? Yes, is he rusty from missing a month or 2 ? Certainly, most people are coming off injury. Is he playing better now than he did when he first started ? I would say so.

The reason many people are down on jeffries is because we know Balkman is on the bench. We didnt know Balkman would be as good as he is. I also think the knicks paid market value for jeffries. In order to get him, they had to beat the offer on the table. We had a need for defense so they pulled the trigger. It's not like we could have got him for jackie butler money. It's business at the end of the day.
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TheGame
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1/11/2007  7:32 AM
Posted by Michael6835:

Hindsight -
I couldn't tell you the names of the other guys Barnes and Udok.. because when they came to the knicks they were journey men. To look at how they are playing now and kick ourselves because we let them go is unfair. When they were here, they didn't play like that, its a reason Barnes has been on so many teams, so it's only a matter of time before he finds one that needs his skill and he brings something to the table. Same for the other guy. Also take jeffries for what he is, he is not an offense guy, we knew that when we signed him. We got him to get stronger on the d and hustle side. Does he bring that? Yes, is he rusty from missing a month or 2 ? Certainly, most people are coming off injury. Is he playing better now than he did when he first started ? I would say so.

The reason many people are down on jeffries is because we know Balkman is on the bench. We didnt know Balkman would be as good as he is. I also think the knicks paid market value for jeffries. In order to get him, they had to beat the offer on the table. We had a need for defense so they pulled the trigger. It's not like we could have got him for jackie butler money. It's business at the end of the day.

Good points. Like I said, I did not like the trade, but I do see that Jeffries, when compared to our other players, appears to be the only player we have above 6'6 that can guard a Lebron or Paul Pierce. BAlkman is still too green to put on those guys regularly, so from that standpoint it was a good signing. I only wish IT would tell Jeffries to STOP TRYING TO SCORE. In the offseason, he needs to take a 1000 shots a day and develop a jumper and his free throw shooting, but until then, he needs to stop shooting and definitely needs to stop trying to post up other players. If he does that, he will be more successful. Unless the shot clock is under 5, he should not be shooting other than on putbacks and layups.
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fishmike
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1/11/2007  7:49 AM
if you look at the JJ signing as one move its good. He fills a need, and brings a lot of things the Knick lack. As far as team needs, makeup, chemistry etc its one of the only moves Isiah has made that fits.

If you look at it in the big picture its terrible. We had Uduka who would have played for the minimum. We had Ariza who was younger, cheaper. We just drafted Balkman, who's role and purpose is exactly what JJ does.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Michael6835
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1/11/2007  8:17 AM
Posted by fishmike:

if you look at the JJ signing as one move its good. He fills a need, and brings a lot of things the Knick lack. As far as team needs, makeup, chemistry etc its one of the only moves Isiah has made that fits.

If you look at it in the big picture its terrible. We had Uduka who would have played for the minimum. We had Ariza who was younger, cheaper. We just drafted Balkman, who's role and purpose is exactly what JJ does.

I agree to a point, I dont think it's terrible. As mentioned, you didn't know balkman would be as aggressive as he is and uduka really could have the same argument. The only thing is we let ariza go, which I didn't understand. He was part of the young core and just to get Francis who clearly did not fit in anywhere on this team.
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VDesai
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1/11/2007  8:49 AM
Jeffries is just brutally bad offensively. He's worse than Shanderson in that respect. What he is, is a really tall guy who can really run well and is reasonably coordinated. That's sort of a rare thing, and a good reason to be in the league. But he's not an exceptionally skilled player. We paid him wayyy too much and there were cheaper options available.

I wouldn't place the Jeffries move as one of the worst in the context of not signing Udoka. While Udoka is having a good season (look it up sometime, its true), he wasn't exactly showing a lot in his audition here. The Jeffries move was bad in the context that it didn't allow us to re-sign, or just plain sign other players who were better options. Wouldn't you rather have Butler back as a backup center (I don't care about his lack of playing time in SA, he played well in that role here and is still a kid with upside), along with another roleplaying SF instead of one Jeffries?
TMS
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1/11/2007  10:32 AM
would u guys rather have Jefferies signed to a full MLE, or Jackie B signed to the contract he signed w/SA along w/either Barnes or Udoka making the minimum right now?

i think the latter improves this team more than the former option personally, & it doesn't hamper the cap as much either... of course, this is all hindsight & again, i don't think Jefferies' contract is overvalued, but i would have much preferred to see guys like Balkman, Butler & Barnes growing in this system right now... Barnes showed some good things playing under LB i thought... nothing close to being the offensive perimeter threat he is now for GS obviously, but he did alot of the little things that Jefferies is doing now, only he was getting paid a lot less... i haven't seen Jefferies to be the shut down defender he was touted as being coming here at all this season... he's a solid & smart basketball player, but nothing to write home about.

i wasn't upset over Jefferies signing that contract, so i'm not trying to make this an "i told u so" situation, but looking back, we probably would've been much better off saving part of that MLE to use on Jackie B & keeping Barnes.
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fishmike
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1/11/2007  10:47 AM
you guys are right on with my point. JJ is a good player that fits a need, but its very Layden like regards to cost and cap implications.

Remember we were over the cap so whats the difference between giving Houston $70mm or a $100mm? Spoon was a very productive player and we needed some muscle, but 5 years?

There's just no future planning beyond 1 year with this organization, and it constantly hurts us.

Hopefully we can focus on getting rid of the non-performers/Isiah mistakes and bring in young hungry guys that play hard. Jerome James should just be waived. Your not getting a team to take him so just wash your hand with it.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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1/11/2007  11:22 AM
This is why I rather hire a GM who has a clue. Not guys like Layden & Isiah
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ESPN: 10 worst moves of the offseason: Knicks make second straight appearance
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