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Why so many Frye haters
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BasketballJones
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1/8/2007  11:08 AM
David Lee needs a haircut.
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bigbeast
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1/8/2007  11:25 AM
Im not down on Frye. I think he can be a pretty good PF in this league. However, Lee's presence makes him some what expendable in my eyes. Of course there is nothing wrong with having two really good PF's on one team. But the problem with this TEAM, is we have other areas of concern. And those concerns cant be addressed through the draft because we gave them to Chicago. We dont have the money to sign a legit free agent to address those concerns so our only option is to trade.

Frye makes the most sense to trade because he is not making much money, has potential and more importantly for us, we don't take a big hit in moving him for a another position player because Lee can more than hold is own at PF. Thats why I'm an advocate to move him for another area of concern, namely a legit SF, or young pg.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 11:27 AM]
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NYKBocker
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1/8/2007  11:41 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

jerome wears a manzier.

I thought that was called the Bro.
MS
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1/8/2007  11:51 AM
In all seriousness, if Frye is not shooting the ball well what does he bring?

Nothing is the answer......
Negatives
Weak hands
No interior presence
Awful passer
Soft inside
Can't get position
No concept of rebounding (body on the man and jumps when the ball goes up, that only works if you have serious hops)
Can't finish over someone, etc

Positives
Size
Shooting ability/range
playa2
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1/8/2007  12:06 PM
Frye doesn't resemble the type of PF fans of the NYKKnicks look for.

Since Curry is the center piece

We want our PF who knows how to box out also BLOCK dunk and dunk on people with authority.

Shooting jump shots like butter when he's on is a plus but not a neccesity

We want our PF to move his feet on defense and alter shots because of his physical presence.

just my take

[Edited by - playa2 on 01-08-2007 06:34]
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TMS
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1/8/2007  12:25 PM
the reason i wouldn't mind seeing him traded is because i think he's 1 of our best trade assets right now & could be used as a piece to get us the biggest missing piece we need, & that's a shotblocker to play alongside Curry & D Lee... it's nothing personal against Frye, Sonny... it's only business... capeesh?


After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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1/8/2007  12:48 PM

I think most people look at Frye as standing in David Lee's way...They want to see David Lee on the court and they think that Frye's potential could be a roadblock to Lee being in a Knick uniform...Most of the arguments here are are Lee versus Frye...Frye is a young talent and most here just wants him traded and for not much in return...Even before he really got playing time this year, they wanted him gone...
nyk4ever
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1/8/2007  1:01 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:


Did he have the low-post game then that he has now?
Frye has no low-post game. If you want to call what he does near the hoop a low-post game then be my guest, but it's not a low-post game. His point come from jumpshots. I would venture to guess that close to 60-70% of all his points come from jump-shooting.
When you saw him as a Freshman at Arizona, did you really think he would be top 5 in rookie first team voting?

Frye feasted last year as a rookie big man in this league who is very seldom seen, which is a jumpshooting big man. Because of this, Frye was left unguarded on the perimeter most times by opposing big men because they are going to give that shot to him any day of the week, because big men don't usually connect as consistently as Frye does on those shots. This led to Frye making the All-Rookie team. Teams figured out Frye come February, as evidenced by when his numbers took a big hit and his numbers went even further down in March. Opponents realized, if you put a body on him out on the perimeter that he doesn't do anything else to score. His damage was already done before February and he had solidified himself as a Rookie 1st-Teamer.

Frye this year is playing like he did last February and March before he got hurt. His numbers are way down and if Frye was a rookie this year, would you even have him on All-Rookie 2nd rookie team? I doubt it.
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holfresh
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1/8/2007  1:15 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:


Did he have the low-post game then that he has now?
Frye has no low-post game. If you want to call what he does near the hoop a low-post game then be my guest, but it's not a low-post game. His point come from jumpshots. I would venture to guess that close to 60-70% of all his points come from jump-shooting.
When you saw him as a Freshman at Arizona, did you really think he would be top 5 in rookie first team voting?

Frye feasted last year as a rookie big man in this league who is very seldom seen, which is a jumpshooting big man. Because of this, Frye was left unguarded on the perimeter most times by opposing big men because they are going to give that shot to him any day of the week, because big men don't usually connect as consistently as Frye does on those shots. This led to Frye making the All-Rookie team. Teams figured out Frye come February, as evidenced by when his numbers took a big hit and his numbers went even further down in March. Opponents realized, if you put a body on him out on the perimeter that he doesn't do anything else to score. His damage was already done before February and he had solidified himself as a Rookie 1st-Teamer.

Frye this year is playing like he did last February and March before he got hurt. His numbers are way down and if Frye was a rookie this year, would you even have him on All-Rookie 2nd rookie team? I doubt it.

Frye does have a low post game which features his short jump hook...We don't see much of it because Curry is the our guy in the low post...Frye has confidence in that shot because he took it at a critical juncture during the Pistons game and hit it...Frye is primarily used as a jump shooter because it helps the Knicks and Curry while Q is out...But don't tell me the guy that showed up on the all rookie team is now "figured out" by the rest of the league...Please....LB benched him last year like he did others for no good reason...Frye hadn't really gotten a chance to play his game this year yet...But this guy has huge potential and is key for the Knick to take the next step....



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-08-2007 1:18 PM]
fishmike
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1/8/2007  2:00 PM
Posted by holfresh:


I think most people look at Frye as standing in David Lee's way...They want to see David Lee on the court and they think that Frye's potential could be a roadblock to Lee being in a Knick uniform...Most of the arguments here are are Lee versus Frye...Frye is a young talent and most here just wants him traded and for not much in return...Even before he really got playing time this year, they wanted him gone...

Its really Curry thats in Frye's way. Lee is easily the best PF on this team, and the Knicks play their best basketball when Lee is on the floor. Frye will never be a good PF in this league. He's never been a PF and he doesnt have the tools you need at this level to suceed. He could be a very good scoring center however, hoever he wont be with Eddy on this roster. Frye has a very nice game around the basket. He just doesnt get any touches there. Putting him out there with Eddy has reduced him to a jumpershooter that cant guard 4's.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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1/8/2007  2:07 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:


I think most people look at Frye as standing in David Lee's way...They want to see David Lee on the court and they think that Frye's potential could be a roadblock to Lee being in a Knick uniform...Most of the arguments here are are Lee versus Frye...Frye is a young talent and most here just wants him traded and for not much in return...Even before he really got playing time this year, they wanted him gone...

Its really Curry thats in Frye's way. Lee is easily the best PF on this team, and the Knicks play their best basketball when Lee is on the floor. Frye will never be a good PF in this league. He's never been a PF and he doesnt have the tools you need at this level to suceed. He could be a very good scoring center however, hoever he wont be with Eddy on this roster. Frye has a very nice game around the basket. He just doesnt get any touches there. Putting him out there with Eddy has reduced him to a jumpershooter that cant guard 4's.

Lee cannot defend the position...He cannot play against the major players in this league at the position...Lee has been a really good player for the Knicks this year but the Knicks will not take the next step with Lee at the PF...He is a liability defensively...He deters no one from driving...If Curry isn't playing defense and Lee isn't playing defense then what do you have...Fyre is a guards fours better than Lee does...Lee hasn't shown the strengh to do so in my opinion...i really wonder why Isiah hasn't put him up against the elites in the league...You guys confuse rebounding with defense..It's not the same thing...

Lee is probably our worst big man defender hands down...



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-08-2007 2:09 PM]
JrZyHuStLa
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1/8/2007  2:15 PM
^ You said "probably" and "hands down" lol, how does that work ???

And obviously rebounding and defense are two different things, but theres no doubt that they go hand in hand.
martin
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1/8/2007  2:52 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:


I think most people look at Frye as standing in David Lee's way...They want to see David Lee on the court and they think that Frye's potential could be a roadblock to Lee being in a Knick uniform...Most of the arguments here are are Lee versus Frye...Frye is a young talent and most here just wants him traded and for not much in return...Even before he really got playing time this year, they wanted him gone...

Its really Curry thats in Frye's way. Lee is easily the best PF on this team, and the Knicks play their best basketball when Lee is on the floor. Frye will never be a good PF in this league. He's never been a PF and he doesnt have the tools you need at this level to suceed. He could be a very good scoring center however, hoever he wont be with Eddy on this roster. Frye has a very nice game around the basket. He just doesnt get any touches there. Putting him out there with Eddy has reduced him to a jumpershooter that cant guard 4's.

Lee cannot defend the position...He cannot play against the major players in this league at the position...Lee has been a really good player for the Knicks this year but the Knicks will not take the next step with Lee at the PF...He is a liability defensively...He deters no one from driving...If Curry isn't playing defense and Lee isn't playing defense then what do you have...Fyre is a guards fours better than Lee does...Lee hasn't shown the strengh to do so in my opinion...i really wonder why Isiah hasn't put him up against the elites in the league...You guys confuse rebounding with defense..It's not the same thing...

Lee is probably our worst big man defender hands down...



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-08-2007 2:09 PM]

I can't believe you just said that. Have you actually SEEN Curry and Frye play? At worst Lee and Frye are equally deficient on D but Lee rebounds a LOT better and that has to count for somethings. Curry has zero interest in D.
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holfresh
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1/8/2007  2:58 PM

Lee has zero interest in playing D as well...At times I am amazed at the fact that he doesn't even pretend to defend by running out on three point shooters...Curry is pretty bad as well...I really don't see how people think these two an be a duo?..
King1
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1/8/2007  3:18 PM
Holfresh you have no idea about what Lee thinks. You say he doesnt gauard anyone to get rebounds. Does that explain why he get 4 rebounds a game almost half on the offensive end. If he is the worst defender defensively then your boy Isiah is an idiot to be playing him more than shot blocker Frye and JJ?
MS
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1/8/2007  3:32 PM
Frye doesn't know how to play basketball in the least, he can't do anything better than lee except shoot and he hasn't done that this year....Frye is never in the right spot, has no rebounding ability and is a ***** in every sense of the word.....

You learn how to guard guys, and that a huge reason to try to move frye for josm smith if atlanta would do it, he need that kid out there for weak side shot blocking
JrZyHuStLa
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1/8/2007  3:35 PM
^ Atlanta can keep Josh Smith, This isn't the dunk contest. This is the Knicks trying to make the playoffs ! And besides, we have Nate
fishmike
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1/8/2007  3:51 PM
maybe your talking about Buddy Lee. I'm talking about David Lee. Lee is easily the most effective defender of the Curry/Lee/Frye combo. But dont let me tell you wrong, look at the #'s. Opposing PFs score at a lower fg% and rebound less when matched against Lee.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK11C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK10C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK12C.HTM
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Allanfan20
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1/8/2007  5:05 PM
Lee is better than the 2 at defense, I don't doubt that for a minute, but it's still not that great. Doesn't close out on shooters well and he's not a good perimeter defender. He's more of a banger in terms of defense. That's why I'm really in favor of making him a small foward.
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izybx
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1/8/2007  5:09 PM
Posted by fishmike:

maybe your talking about Buddy Lee. I'm talking about David Lee. Lee is easily the most effective defender of the Curry/Lee/Frye combo. But dont let me tell you wrong, look at the #'s. Opposing PFs score at a lower fg% and rebound less when matched against Lee.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK11C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK10C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK12C.HTM

How about SFs?
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