The biggest thing the Franchise player must bring to have this kind of label is LEADERSHIP
Is Curry a leader of any kind? Come on people!!!

Any good team with average coach and execution can minimize Eddy production. He is struggling in almost any game with top defensive teams. And when he is pushed of his comfort area he is not even useless - he is the reason of our losing.
Hid defense is probably on the 10 worst list in the NBA. He is faking on defense - you can often see him just slightly raising his hand and moving in the direction of his man just to make it look like he is there. I never saw anything more comical and disgusting at the same time.

Ewing was a dominant player at every level on both ends of the court. Elite in HS, elite in college, elite in the NBA. While his team struggled early on Ewing did not and it was clear was going to be an NBA superstar. Same with Hakeem and Robinson. They have ZERO relevance to Eddy Curry who has never dominated. We wasnt even the HS player that Chandler was, much less Howard, Lebron or Garnett.

Curry does not make others around him better on either end of the court. Its his 6th year in the league and still has huge questions about conditioning and effort on nightly basis. This sounds like "franchise" talent to you?

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Michael6835:

The greats were different, you saw what you were getting back in the 80s with most people completing close to 4yrs. The knicks just got curry a year ago, he is improving, they realize they need to surround him with talent to compliment him, If we sit tight and let people expire in 3 or 4 years the team will be in a decent situation salary wise. I know its not all about scoring, but to say that Curry will never be a decent defender is just labeling him. The thing with NY fans is we want instant gratification, which is why the whole rebuilding talk i here from some is a joke. You want to get a franchise player, you have one with tremndous upside to be that guy. You don't like him now because his defense is weak so you totally dismiss what he brings to the offensive end. You talk about his defense, you can get great supporting defenders, his defense should improve along with his rebounding over time. What he has on the offensive side is raw talent which no one else in the league possesses. The greatest defender in the league right now can not contain Eddy Curry. You put a balanced roster on the floor to accomodate him and you have a good team. Its not that hard, you get some people who can shoot the 3 and spread the floor and who know how to rebound and block shots. (which by the way is improving each game and which any team would be willing to live with) Any team would want curry, the reason we ended up with him was because we were willing to roll the dice.

curry is now in his 6th year. what do we know about eddy in 6 years...he can score close to the basket. and he plays zero defense. he's a poor rebounder, passer and shotblocker.

what has changed in those 6 years? and do you think that's going to change in the upcoming 6 years? and by how much? enough to make him a franchise stud?

you want to make curry our franchise guy? cool. but some radical changes need to be made to accomodate that.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-05-2007 11:13 AM]

Finally, we agree,
to make him the franchise, we need radical changes to accomodate that. This is statement is true for any guy you label franchise too. I think the situation is much different when you have a Center that has the skill set to be a dominant big man in the league. We're not talking pf, we're talking straight center. Get some people in here to help defensively and on rebounds. Get a pure shooting 2 guard who defends and a good point guard. Shaq couldn't do it by himself, he had Kobe (who is great) and he had Wade (who is really good) and he had penny (who was good). What a player like eddy does, is make the game easier for other players on the floor, if you have the right players on the floor with him the double and triple will not come and if they do they will get burned. On defense, if you have a roaming shot blocker and better perimeter defense, then you have effectively highlighted your strengths and reduced your weaknesses. Thats the goal right ? We could have a guy like Lebron or Melo but they still need a big man. It has to be balanced. Houston has the right idea, with the yao and tmac, its just a matter of staying healthy and getting the other players to compliment.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Michael6835:

The greats were different, you saw what you were getting back in the 80s with most people completing close to 4yrs. The knicks just got curry a year ago, he is improving, they realize they need to surround him with talent to compliment him, If we sit tight and let people expire in 3 or 4 years the team will be in a decent situation salary wise. I know its not all about scoring, but to say that Curry will never be a decent defender is just labeling him. The thing with NY fans is we want instant gratification, which is why the whole rebuilding talk i here from some is a joke. You want to get a franchise player, you have one with tremndous upside to be that guy. You don't like him now because his defense is weak so you totally dismiss what he brings to the offensive end. You talk about his defense, you can get great supporting defenders, his defense should improve along with his rebounding over time. What he has on the offensive side is raw talent which no one else in the league possesses. The greatest defender in the league right now can not contain Eddy Curry. You put a balanced roster on the floor to accomodate him and you have a good team. Its not that hard, you get some people who can shoot the 3 and spread the floor and who know how to rebound and block shots. (which by the way is improving each game and which any team would be willing to live with) Any team would want curry, the reason we ended up with him was because we were willing to roll the dice.

My friend, the bolded parts are the keys. First off, you officially separated Curry from the greats in your first like, and that's the whole point. It's been proven you NEED one. Whether it's a big like the guys I mentioned, or a guard who can take over whenever he wants.

Second off, you say lets get great players to compliment him, but you also have to remember, for Curry, we're getting those players to pick him up. The franchise player is supposed to pick up the complimentary players. That's the whole problem with Curry.

Stop shooting low with the word decent. If Curry is gonna become a decent defender, then he's not a franchise player. If the team gets in a decent situation, anywhere, then we're nowhere near to become a championship contender. We need to put ourselves in a great position to get a franchise player. How do you think that will happen? Curry needs to be a GREAT defender to even be labelled "Franchise." Do you think he'll be great?

And to address another one of your points, Eddie Curry sure as in hell does have a lot of trouble with certain people guarding him. He killed Ben Wallace, and Emeka, but what happens when Dwight Howard comes to town? What happens when that stopper is there? What else will he do?

Please spare me the headaches.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 01-05-2007 11:22 AM]

you have off games, so your telling me Ben Wallace isnt a stopper ?
I thought he was nba defensive poy ? Curry handled him pretty well ? Dont you think ?

i didnt bold mine either. oh well.

How can you guys sit there and tell me that Curry does not make others better. You can't be serious ? If we had someone to hit the 3 when the double and triple comes they would surely be better. The fact that people are doubling and tripling means people are out of position which gives Lee a bit of advantage on the boards. NOTE: I am not taking away from LEE, he works hard for his. Everyone benefits from a dominant post player, if you cant hit the shot or take advantage of being open, who's fault is it ? I will say this, Eddy needs to get better at passing out of the double team, my answer give him time.
Oh, he has shown us 6 yrs, ok, i am willing to give him another 6yrs.

If the NBA was all combined from kind of players we have on Knicks roster - Eddy will probably be a Franchise player.

But I think that the talant level on NBA is much higher that this

Posted by Michael6835:

i didnt bold mine either. oh well.

How can you guys sit there and tell me that Curry does not make others better. You can't be serious ? If we had someone to hit the 3 when the double and triple comes they would surely be better. The fact that people are doubling and tripling means people are out of position which gives Lee a bit of advantage on the boards. NOTE: I am not taking away from LEE, he works hard for his. Everyone benefits from a dominant post player, if you cant hit the shot or take advantage of being open, who's fault is it ? I will say this, Eddy needs to get better at passing out of the double team, my answer give him time.
Oh, he has shown us 6 yrs, ok, i am willing to give him another 6yrs.

the mere fact that he consistently draws double teams down low should be making others better by leaving them w/wide open looks on the perimeter... the problem is we have guys who can't shoot the ball if their lives depended on it like Jefferies, Balkman & D Lee on the perimeter being left open by their defenders.

Oh my bad, I forgot to put Bill Russel on that list.

Great post, dj. Bottom line is this: franchise players do not grow on trees. During a decade, a team might only have two or three *chances*, to get one, if they don't have one already. We've already passed up a few chances because of foolish or near-sighted moves. We have no plan for getting a franchise player, and I agree with the above. We're not bad enough to get a top 3 pick (for the future picks we actually have). We're not good enough to be much more than a low seed or miss the playoffs, either. Getting out of the first round probably isn't in our future for years to come. So, the fact remains. Isiah has done everything possible to ensure us being in no-mans land. Some guys are satisfied with that. The rest of us want more. There's time to fix things, but it would take a change in mentality.

As for Curry, I see him more as the center version of Allan Houston. Allan Houston was a great shooter, showed random flashes in other attributes, but never kept it consistent. Ultimately, in his final full season with the Knicks, Allan posted league worst stats for any starter when you combined assists and rebounds. Eddy Curry is on the same track. Terrific insider scorer. Shows flashes, having good rebounding games here and there, or having a game where he gets three blocks. But then you look at his stats and he's among the league worst when comparing positive stats like blocks, steals and assists vs. negative ones like turnovers.

One-dimensional players aren't franchise players. Except in the mind of Isiah Thomas and Scott Layden. Welcome to the Knicks.

[Edited by - Solace on Jan 05 2007 12:04 PM]

The center position is a much different position to be dominant at than the guard position. Dominant centers change the makeup of the teams.
Lets switch this up, who is the special franchise player you think the knicks had a chance at getting. who is this special draft pick that will be franchise ? Saying we could of had a "chance" is bs and not a guarantee ? What franchise player do you think the knicks could get ? See everyone has non realistic solutions. Very few are bonafide stars, you roll the dice on some and get lucky. Indy rolled the dice on Oneal and got lucky, previously he was stuck on the bench in Portland. My whole argument is that he is young and still growing into his role. No one can tell with a certainty that he will not get better. The fact that many ignore the fact that you need to surround him with complimentary players is beyond me. I dont understand why you guys cant see that is what needs to happen. Furthermore if the team goes with that goal which they are obviously doing, we stand a better chance in 3-4 years of getting big names to want to play in NY. If they look at NY in 3-4 years and they see a dominant big man in EC and they see a hustler rebounder in DLEE and Balkman, then you start attracting the players like the lebrons, dwades, paul pierce, etc. They look at the team and see that ok this team is one player away from making it. Right now eddy is franchise, like it or not. Surround him with the right players and this team will win.

Stop thinking right now and think 3-4 years down the road. From this point forward, you build around Eddy. See what is available after 3-4 years. Also I see this team being a consistent playoff team in 3-4 years. Most championship teams have 2 franchise players, detroit being the exception where the franchise player was the whole team.