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Do people still want Magloire ? Rather than Curry?
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MS
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1/4/2007  10:41 AM
Who is our center right now if we didn't have Curry?????? Channing Frye we are losing nearly every game the kid gets great experience, balkman gets more minutes, and nate is playing upping his trade value, so we finish with a worst record that a few of those teams you just mentioned..... Miami is going to be above 500 when shaq returns, and toronto hasn't had bosh......

And Paul is back so memphis is going to make a big charge.....

So realistically your looking at four teams if we didn't make that curry trade, so you can't compare our record, look logically, subtract your 18pts and 7rbs
AUTOADVERT
TheGame
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1/4/2007  10:58 AM
Curry is a very solid center. He still needs to improve on defense, but there is not a team in the league that would not want his offensive presence. Teams are TRIPLE teaming this guy just to stop him on the block. If we had 3-point shooters, we would be killing teams. It is our lack of guard play that is making people devalue what Curry brings to the table, but I would trade Tyrus Thomas and another 1st round pick for Curry in a heart beat (unless the 1st rounder turned out to be Oden, which I think will not happen).
Trust the Process
TMS
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1/4/2007  11:10 AM
unless we win the lottery this year & a chance at Greg Oden, i'm perfectly happy w/what we're seeing developing w/Curry... if he were in the draft this year he'd be an easy top 3 pick.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bigbeast
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1/4/2007  11:34 AM
Posted by TMS:

unless we win the lottery this year & a chance at Greg Oden, i'm perfectly happy w/what we're seeing developing w/Curry... if he were in the draft this year he'd be an easy top 3 pick.

agreed
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
nyvector16
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1/4/2007  11:46 AM
All this talk of Oden when discussing the Curry trade is ridiculous.
For starters.. even if we had our pick there are at least 5 teams that will end up with Worse records than us who would obviously take him before we had a shot.
And on top of that... there are some real doubts as to whether Oden will even enter the draft this year.

To bring up Oden 's name in order to shed the Curry trade in the worse possible light is stretching at best and just pure fiction at worst.
djsunyc
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1/4/2007  11:50 AM
at the time of the deal, i didn't like giving up the picks unprotected.
and it burned us last year.

curry is playing better offensively than i anticipated. but his defense is actually WORSE than i expected. so that's a wash.

if you give me magloire and portland's unprotected #1 - i make the deal.

magloire expiring to dump curry's deal off our books long term and recouping a very nice, possibly better player with the pick, which will probably be top 5 is a fair deal imho.

the center spot in the nba is one of defense of which we are getting none.
Masterplan
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1/4/2007  11:52 AM
Posted by TheGame:

Curry is a very solid center. He still needs to improve on defense, but there is not a team in the league that would not want his offensive presence. Teams are TRIPLE teaming this guy just to stop him on the block. If we had 3-point shooters, we would be killing teams. It is our lack of guard play that is making people devalue what Curry brings to the table, but I would trade Tyrus Thomas and another 1st round pick for Curry in a heart beat (unless the 1st rounder turned out to be Oden, which I think will not happen).

sometimes it seems more like they're triple teaming curry because it's an easy way to throw off the knicks offense and get a steal.

it deinitely varies with eddy. sometimes double teams are all they can do to contain him, sometimes it's like double teaming the fat kid and just taking the ball away from him.
MS
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1/4/2007  11:58 AM
Our GM doesn't have a brain lets face it, he continues to screw the cap.

Had he not signed James, Jefferies and made that awful Francis deal. We would have had a little wiggle room in the future. You don't make the curry trade, and you have Randy Foye in the fold who will be dynamic.

You allow him to play major minutes with Balkman, Lee and Frye, and Marbury, chances are we aren't winnning any games, in the meantime you do something smart like trade away Crawfords contract for salary relief.....

Build up everyones value, and lose as many games as possible. You go into the draft and you have a number of options to improve the sf position the center position etc, they may not be as viable as curry but you still have flexibility.......and you slowly piece it together, we are rebuilding and haven't been a 500 team in close to 5 years, we are no closer to a championship today, we have some pieces, but not enough, and isiah compounds his mistakes with bad midlevel signings and trades

You let your contracts expire you don't make stupid trades and you rebuild, Frye is at his natural position, Lee is getting better and you have a guard that can lead, make the big shot and play solid defense in Foye. You let Nate and Balkman expand their roles and you roll the dice and see what the big three do in a few years with your maturing young core, and cap space you would have had.
franco12
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1/4/2007  12:08 PM
I'll grant you this talk of getting oden is premature- he might not enter the draft, we might not get the top pick, even if we have the worse record, etc.

But, its also absurd to say that if Curry were in the draft, he'd be a top pick because, while he might be a top pick, he also wouldn't be costing us $10m a year and have four years left on his deal- and as such, he might be a lot more tradeable.

The obsession with picks isn't only youth and potential, there is also an element of affordablity and tradeability that such players have, vis a vis the Curry's, Crawfords & JJ's of the world.

Give me cheap youth that tries every night.
TMS
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1/4/2007  12:19 PM
Curry is anything but untradeable... i'd wager to bet there's a line of teams out there willing to talk trades w/the Knicks if they decided they wanted to move him.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Anji
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1/4/2007  12:25 PM
Posted by MS:

Our GM doesn't have a brain lets face it, he continues to screw the cap.

Had he not signed James, Jefferies and made that awful Francis deal. We would have had a little wiggle room in the future. You don't make the curry trade, and you have Randy Foye in the fold who will be dynamic.

You allow him to play major minutes with Balkman, Lee and Frye, and Marbury, chances are we aren't winnning any games, in the meantime you do something smart like trade away Crawfords contract for salary relief.....

Build up everyones value, and lose as many games as possible. You go into the draft and you have a number of options to improve the sf position the center position etc, they may not be as viable as curry but you still have flexibility.......and you slowly piece it together, we are rebuilding and haven't been a 500 team in close to 5 years, we are no closer to a championship today, we have some pieces, but not enough, and isiah compounds his mistakes with bad midlevel signings and trades

You let your contracts expire you don't make stupid trades and you rebuild, Frye is at his natural position, Lee is getting better and you have a guard that can lead, make the big shot and play solid defense in Foye. You let Nate and Balkman expand their roles and you roll the dice and see what the big three do in a few years with your maturing young core, and cap space you would have had.

THe franchise dose not want to rebuild. Isiah, West, Red....... doesn't matter who the GM is, the knicks will never have Cap space!!!
And Balkman/Lee/Nate were gotten by trading for salary, how are they apart of your master plan??? The team would be Frye, Sweetney and Foye right now in your world and you would be fired for having 15 win seasonsin New York.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
MS
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1/4/2007  12:46 PM
actually balkman is going in round two of the draft and i kept that q deal on the books, so we would have nate/jack whoever, and would still have lee because rose would be on the team. And your cap room would come in 09-10, when rose, and marbury come off the books....

your right why do you need cap space when you can miss the playoffs for five years, while you should be rebuilding, so if you want to be an ******* about it......and who is to say you couldn't have even got curry with the midlevel for an extended number of years you don't know since the bulls didn't even offer him that.....

The team would be

Marbury/Nate
Foye-doesn't matter
Q/Balkman
Lee/Rose
Frye/Cato-doesn't matter/Sweetney

Fans care about hope and improvement,hustle and heart if they are not going to see wins, since your probably never at a game. So who cares you tank the season, people aren't going to be excited about a nice young player to pair in there.....if i get fired for a team that develops its young players and is moving in the right direction for the future without ****ing the cap, i've done my job
MS
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1/4/2007  12:48 PM
so he top 3 protects the pick and shows a brain how about we throw that in there, don't tell me paxson wouldn't have done that, he didn't think the knicks were going to be that bad, you still have the ability to get foye or even move the pick, comon sense......

And if you really endorsed James, Francis, JJ2 throw yourself of a bridge
TMS
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1/4/2007  12:56 PM
Posted by MS:

so he top 3 protects the pick and shows a brain how about we throw that in there, don't tell me paxson wouldn't have done that, he didn't think the knicks were going to be that bad, you still have the ability to get foye or even move the pick, comon sense......

that sounds like a whole lotta speculation on your part to me... we can only deal in facts, & the facts are that the Bulls demanded no lottery protection on those picks, & Isiah gave in... all the "what ifs" & "woulda shouldas" don't mean much of anything except as filler on an internet message board... not trying to attack you on this or to sound condescending in any way, but it's true.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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1/4/2007  1:02 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

at the time of the deal, i didn't like giving up the picks unprotected.
and it burned us last year.

curry is playing better offensively than i anticipated. but his defense is actually WORSE than i expected. so that's a wash.

if you give me magloire and portland's unprotected #1 - i make the deal.

magloire expiring to dump curry's deal off our books long term and recouping a very nice, possibly better player with the pick, which will probably be top 5 is a fair deal imho.

the center spot in the nba is one of defense of which we are getting none.
I agree with everything you wrote. I've posted a lot of times that you must get defense from your bigs. The offense from them is just a luxury. I like your trade proposal. I'd trade Curry for any decent first round draft pick and good role player.

GodSaveTheKnicks
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1/4/2007  1:04 PM
Posted by franco12:

I think I would prefer our two picks back (tank this year) and have his contract gone.

Curry has been a beast on the offensive end and is still young.

That being said I'd much much much rather have tanked this season to get Oden at a nice low rookie price.
Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
TMS
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1/4/2007  1:05 PM
let's trade Curry for Jason Collins & NJ's 1st round pick... we're winning a championship this year after we make that trade
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Allanfan20
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1/4/2007  2:25 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

at the time of the deal, i didn't like giving up the picks unprotected.
and it burned us last year.

curry is playing better offensively than i anticipated. but his defense is actually WORSE than i expected. so that's a wash.

if you give me magloire and portland's unprotected #1 - i make the deal.

magloire expiring to dump curry's deal off our books long term and recouping a very nice, possibly better player with the pick, which will probably be top 5 is a fair deal imho.

the center spot in the nba is one of defense of which we are getting none.
I agree with everything you wrote. I've posted a lot of times that you must get defense from your bigs. The offense from them is just a luxury. I like your trade proposal. I'd trade Curry for any decent first round draft pick and good role player.

Agree and disagree. Everyone on your team has to play defense in my brilliant mind including the bigs. If the bigs are good on D but the guards just flood them with their bad D' then the bigs are gonna foul out.

Bonn, offense from the bigs is not just a bonus. Remember why the Knicks first started sucking in the first place? They had real good offensive players in Houston and Spree, and all of their guards were solid 3 pt shooters, but their best big low post player was Larry Johnson (For the first season without Ewing) and he wasn't even great b/c of his back problems. That team not having a big low post scorer kept that team from being a championship contender. Instead, they were out in the first round and eventually started sucking even more.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Anji
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1/4/2007  5:10 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by MS:

so he top 3 protects the pick and shows a brain how about we throw that in there, don't tell me paxson wouldn't have done that, he didn't think the knicks were going to be that bad, you still have the ability to get foye or even move the pick, comon sense......

that sounds like a whole lotta speculation on your part to me... we can only deal in facts, & the facts are that the Bulls demanded no lottery protection on those picks, & Isiah gave in... all the "what ifs" & "woulda shouldas" don't mean much of anything except as filler on an internet message board... not trying to attack you on this or to sound condescending in any way, but it's true.
Could of said better my self, but I'll go with this.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Bonn1997
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1/4/2007  7:25 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

at the time of the deal, i didn't like giving up the picks unprotected.
and it burned us last year.

curry is playing better offensively than i anticipated. but his defense is actually WORSE than i expected. so that's a wash.

if you give me magloire and portland's unprotected #1 - i make the deal.

magloire expiring to dump curry's deal off our books long term and recouping a very nice, possibly better player with the pick, which will probably be top 5 is a fair deal imho.

the center spot in the nba is one of defense of which we are getting none.
I agree with everything you wrote. I've posted a lot of times that you must get defense from your bigs. The offense from them is just a luxury. I like your trade proposal. I'd trade Curry for any decent first round draft pick and good role player.

Agree and disagree. Everyone on your team has to play defense in my brilliant mind including the bigs. If the bigs are good on D but the guards just flood them with their bad D' then the bigs are gonna foul out.

Bonn, offense from the bigs is not just a bonus. Remember why the Knicks first started sucking in the first place? They had real good offensive players in Houston and Spree, and all of their guards were solid 3 pt shooters, but their best big low post player was Larry Johnson (For the first season without Ewing) and he wasn't even great b/c of his back problems. That team not having a big low post scorer kept that team from being a championship contender. Instead, they were out in the first round and eventually started sucking even more.
To be a championship team, you do need a player who can score in the low post (unless you have Jordan). But you'll be fine if only one of your bigs (SFs, PFs, and Cs) can do so and the others are just solid defenders, rebounders, and hustle players. Those Sprewell/Houston teams lost for MANY reasons. It's an oversimplification to attribute it to poor low-post scoring. They didn't have much at the PG position. After Camby was traded, they didn't have much on defense (not just offense) in the frontcourt. The two best players played the same position.

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