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Chad Ford: Knicks Favorite in Atlantic
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kam77
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12/28/2006  1:25 PM
Hypothetical this all is, but if the Knicks finish with a winning record, and given the young core is improving, then YES a lot of crow will have to be eaten. Get your forks ready. Mediocrity today, 50 win seasons to follow. Baby steps.

The steps we were taking these last 5 years have been the steps of a dying dog. To maybe win 42 games and have youth to build upon is WHAT EVERYBODY WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Don't cry because it's the hated Isiah bringing it to you with his i told you so smile.

Of course, all hypothetical.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
AUTOADVERT
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  1:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by holfresh:


If Knicks continue on this path and begin to win some games, battle back to respectability, it going to be a bitter pill for lots of sports writers to swallow....

Yeah I'm not sure I understand this either. If a team wins 30 something games year after year and then follows it up with 23 wins they are going to get bashed in the papers. Then when they win 40 somehow writers have to eat their words. What words are they eating? I don't get it. I get so confused as to what people are complaining about.

When a team wins 23 games, most articles will be negative. When they win 55 games most will be positive. Is their something I'm missing? What are writers supposed to be writing about?

Bip please don't pretend that Larry Brown didn't have a lot to do with the won loss record last year...In my opinion and mine only...Larry tanked the season...I somehow think that sports writers can see this and will report on it...Sports writers used this opportunity to dump on Isiah, Marbury and Dolan...Not many people called out LB...Maybe I'm a fan that is not looking at things objectively but I have always though this was a talented group that had the potential to play better...It's not a championship team but I think we are seeing a foundation being formed..It was Larry's job to develop this but he refused in an attempt to gain control of the organization....
So at the beginning of the year when they said the Knicks would be cellar dwellars again because there is no leadership and vision for the future there will be lots of crow to eat...


Holfresh it's like a broken record with you. You want to blame LB so bad that any mention of anyone else taking part in the blame gets you so riled up that you dismiss the fact that the poster is actually blaming LB as well. I agree with most of what you said. I think LB played a MAJOR ROLE IN OUR SEASON LAST YEAR. Why do I keep having to repeat it. If you want me to declare him the anti-christ I will so that we can stop having this ridiculous argument. He wanted a new roster like he always does. I knew before the season this is the way he operates adn I'm an idiot. I knew he would not mesh with that roster. LB is just not the guy to hire if you want him to prep and train and nurture unmotivated players. The Olympics gave us a preview of the volatility of the mix that we had. There were many posters on this site saying this. So when it happened none of us were surprised. Well some of us were not surprised.

But the difference I think between your view and mine is that you look at things individually and I look at things organizationally. LB wanted to change the roster and did not want to coach this bunch. Isiah is the guy wanted to cultivate this bunch. He made the wrong hire for the wrong plan. And he did it to creat buzz. There was less thought in that hire than there was in the signing of JJ. It was reactionary and made with no plan. We were down and out. LB was available. LB was a big name. Sign him because he's the best available. Not because he's the best fit for your plan. Kind of like Stevie and Jalen and JJ etc. It was made to get the heat off himself and fool the masses into thinking that the mix would turn into Phoenix West. Don't you guys remember me warning you about the thought of us becoming Phoenix WEst. I said it so many times I can't believe that people are still arguing with me over this.

it was a bad hire. It's like signing me to start at PG and then when the team goes down in flames blaming me instead of starting at the top with the guys that signed me. LB was a horrible coach LAST SEASON. The man that signed him deserves blame for this. The players that quit and did not buck up deserve no sympathy. If they played hard they would have gotten all the sympathy in the world. But in my world when you quit you don't. the only guys I cut slack to are the rookies that were caught up in this mess.

to you it was the failure of LB. To me it was an organizational failure. A continuance of the type of Knee jerk moves and reactions we have made for 7 years. Moves based on creating buzz and saving jobs and not built around a solid plan.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 1:33 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 1:34 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 1:38 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  1:35 PM
Last year just shows how important it is to review your roster and have a plan before you hire coaches to coach it. Coaches are not magicians. They have a style of coaching that they use. If they win that means it's working. As a GM it is your job to find players that fit that style. IF you don't you failed. Is this rocket science. Why does this seem so obvious to me?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 1:36 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 1:36 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
MS
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12/28/2006  1:43 PM
If the Knicks win the Atlantic with 35 wins and Isiah boasts its downright disgraceful, his guard salary is more than 50% of the leagues salaries, and he has solid talent at nearly every position...if they finish at 500 he can say anything he wants, but getting a team into the playoffs would be a growth experience and that is exactly what Isiah should say. ie. we still have a ways to go but the progression from last year to this year is something we are happy about.......

Not his typical Curry is an All-Star Jefferies is a first team defender (highly overated on defense, versatile doesn't mean lock down)

AS for losing Kristic, that is a perfectly valid excuse and it will be a struggle for them to make the playoffs even with the big three, their frontcourt consists of Collins and Boone, people fail to look at the situation, if we lost curry we still have frye to pick up the slack and can slide jefferies over.....they have no one and even if your getting 65 a night for those guys which is very high, where are the points coming from.......

Humilty is the key, and thats why no one likes isiah because he doesn't know how to talk humble
holfresh
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12/28/2006  1:43 PM

You might be right Bip in looking at it that way...I thought that LB was a great hire because he would teach the young players the game...We know how it turned out...I have to admit I didn't see it coming...I saw the Marbury feud but not the feud with the entire organization...I can't look at things the way you do...Often you run the risk of throwing out the baby with the bath water...

I see no knee jerk reaction moves hiring what was thought to be the best mind in basketball to teach young players...I doubt anyone was paying Larry 50 mil to create buzz...
Masterplan
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12/28/2006  1:46 PM
I said it so many times I can't believe that people are still arguing with me over this.

uh Bip, just for the record, how many times do you have to say something before we're not allowed to disagree anymore?


even if last season was 100% LB's fault, it doesn't change the fact that we would applaud our players for winning 30-some games this season, and some would expect them to get serious national media kudos for it.

over the summer i proposed that the results this season should be judged on should be independent of last season. end of the year i will look at our record and say, we won x games, thus we are a bad/mediocre/decent/dangerous team. not, we won x games more than last season, thus we are better. i think i'll stick to that.

i also think our record should be independent of how other teams do. so i won't say, we came in x place in the Atlantic, thus we did well/poorly. would be cool to take it and make hte playoffs, but that does not necessarily vindicate the season.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 12-28-2006 1:46 PM]
TMS
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12/28/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by MS:

AS for losing Kristic, that is a perfectly valid excuse and it will be a struggle for them to make the playoffs even with the big three, their frontcourt consists of Collins and Boone, people fail to look at the situation

The Nets were 11-15 w/Krstic healthy. You really think it's a legitimate excuse to use for them to miss out on the playoffs when they were a crappy team w/him anyway? I just don't see it. Would be the same as using Curry being out as the reason the Knicks didn't win the division this year. This division is the absolute worst in the the NBA, & if a mediocre team can't win the division, there is no excuse other than the fact that they're simply not a good basketball team.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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12/28/2006  2:04 PM
My point is if they lose carter/jefferson its easier for them to come back from than kristic because at least they have williams/adams/wright to plug in, they have no one. The nets are not a good team right now and should just blow it up......

Everyone is waiting for the nets to come around, this injury basically makes that likely hood a lot less
sebstar
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12/28/2006  2:08 PM
it was a bad hire. It's like signing me to start at PG and then when the team goes down in flames blaming me instead of starting at the top with the guys that signed me. [Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 1:33 PM]

Thats just a ridiculous thing to say...just ridiculous. You know better than to say something like that. The move was bad because of Larry Brown...HOF coach, drama queen...tried to pull a power play and lost. Now Isiah knew what LB was all about going in, but can we resist completely absolving LB from any sort of responsibility in that mess of a season?

In any event, the organization has moved on and so should we. Just keep it moving. We have something to cheer about finally --- lets close the LB chapter.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TMS
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12/28/2006  2:09 PM
i don't buy it... they've just been playing like crap... they have more than enough talent to win this division, just like the Knicks do... whether they will or they won't doesn't lie on Nenad Krstic being out for the season imo.

i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
SugarRayRichardson
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12/28/2006  2:20 PM
Bring back Larry Brown. Only Larry can save us from winning 35-41 games this year!
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Anji
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12/28/2006  2:41 PM
Posted by sebstar:
it was a bad hire. It's like signing me to start at PG and then when the team goes down in flames blaming me instead of starting at the top with the guys that signed me. [Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 1:33 PM]

Thats just a ridiculous thing to say...just ridiculous. You know better than to say something like that. The move was bad because of Larry Brown...HOF coach, drama queen...tried to pull a power play and lost. Now Isiah knew what LB was all about going in, but can we resist completely absolving LB from any sort of responsibility in that mess of a season?

In any event, the organization has moved on and so should we. Just keep it moving. We have something to cheer about finally --- lets close the LB chapter.

BIngo. Nobody knows what Larry Brown wants more then.................. you guessed it LARRY BROWN. He should not have taken the job if 15 games in he was going to tank!!!!!!!!!
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Michael6835
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12/28/2006  2:59 PM
Are we not over Larry Brown ? Honestly, I am tired of hearing about him already, the whole brawl thing was the last time I wanted to hear LB and the Knicks. The team has seemingly moved on from the whole LB fiasco and it looks like they are trying to piece together a season. If we make it to .500 by the all-star break and still playing with hustle and fight, then we have a chance to take the divison, go above .500 and be placed 4th seed playing the 5th seed. We might even win a playoff game or two if we make it in. It's time to start believing and backing the team. The analysts along with everyone else cant stand the isaih and no matter how good of a job he is doing getting the team to play together they will make excuses on why the knicks might win the division. It would awesome if we finished strong and made them eat their words.
M
TMS
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12/28/2006  3:07 PM
Posted by Michael6835:

If we make it to .500 by the all-star break and still playing with hustle and fight, then we have a chance to take the divison, go above .500 and be placed 4th seed playing the 5th seed.

a 1st round matchup w/the Bulls right now as it stands... that would be an interesting series to say the least.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Michael6835
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12/28/2006  3:20 PM
yes it would be very interesting, funny thing is the Bulls are not that great of a team where you can say they would dominate us or sweep us in the series. I think we could put up a good fight against them. It's not like their the pistons or Miami with Shaq. I don't think it's that far fetched to think we couldnt beat the bulls in a series if we continue the way we are playing right now.
M
Solace
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12/28/2006  5:06 PM
Posted by TMS:

it'll effect them no doubt, but last time i checked the Nets had a crappy record this season w/Krstic still in the lineup... so to use that as the reason why they will now all of a sudden lose the division is a copout as far as i'm concerned... same as using Curry going out as the reason the Knicks don't win the division would be for any Knick supporter... truth is, both teams have been wildly inconsistent this season & overall, just not that good.

Except that this division is so weak to start with that 34 wins might take it. The Nets have proven in past years to be able to win 50 games. So, I think most of us still felt they'd be at least .500 by the end of the year, but many no longer believe so with the Krstic loss. So, I think it's fair to say that if they lose the division by 2 games, for example, that having Krstic probably would've been the difference.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
MS
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12/28/2006  5:55 PM
I really like the way we match up vs. Miami in all honesty....

You alternate Q, Jefferies, Balkman on Wade

Shaq, you bang with Cato, Rose, James, and Curry

you don't really have to double those guys as much as you would think and you make the other players hit shots.
Ray15
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12/28/2006  6:41 PM
Posted by Michael6835:

yes it would be very interesting, funny thing is the Bulls are not that great of a team where you can say they would dominate us or sweep us in the series. I think we could put up a good fight against them. It's not like their the pistons or Miami with Shaq. I don't think it's that far fetched to think we couldnt beat the bulls in a series if we continue the way we are playing right now.


I would LOVE for this team to make the playoffs. We don't give the Bulls a lottery pick and our young guys get experience in the post season. I'd also like to think this team can match up with a team like the Bulls but I just don't see it in the playoffs. Playoffs are completely different from the regular season -- it's a halfcourt game that comes down to stops. It's physical and I don't see us being able to do much against the Bulls defense.

With that being said, I think we're going to continue to improve throughout the year. When we get a full squad and we can rotate Q in the backcourt and Jefferies starts to get his timing back, we have the chance to be a good team. One thing is for sure, we need to get much better defensively.

I stand pat, let this team develop from within, re-evaluate at seasons end and add pieces through the draft -- maybe package nate to move up in the draft.
Defense and Toughness
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