Posted by TMS:

do you really think that roster beats the Mavs or Spurs in a 7 game series? not w/o a proven shotblocker i don't

CWebb's not the same player he used to be... he's lost almost all of his lateral quickness, so his defense is almost non existent at this point... AI would be a huge scorer on that team, but think about all the time that team would need to gel & learn how to play with each other as well as getting to know their newly established roles after yet another major overhaul of the roster.

getting AI & CWebb would not have made this team a championship contender... not even close IMO. (& this is no dig at AI, cuz i think that guy's the ****).

lol
mavs or spurs, that is assuming that team could make it past detroit or Miami w/ Shaq

People like IT will never surround themselves with greatest
They need grey and deficient individuals around to always shine on top of the gray background.
Marbs is another case of this kind.
People like IT and Marbs will not be able to live their lives side by side with AI, KG, and LB alike

Greatness surrounded itself with greatness and snakes are tend to be in a company of snakes

if thats all it took, and we could then ship him out for some younger talent it would be a great deal, but the knicks would have included one of our guards had a deal been done

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

I don't think AI would be a good fit with this team.

That being said the expiring contracts would have been nice as I think it would have put the Knicks in position for being involved in a 3 way trade.

Isiah is a freaking idiot. Expiring contracts are an asset if you use them correctly. We could have attempted to package $27M in cap space to the Sixers as part of a 3 way trade for a draft pick.

God I hate Isiah.

you were killing him for taking on salary just to get a draft pick a year ago when he made the Malik Rose & Mo T trades... now you want him to take on $27 million in longterm annual salary to get a draft pick... make up your mind dude... you can't have it both ways.

You mean Jalen Rose and Malik Rose trades? We gave up a pick in the Mo T trade (ironically, a pick only 3 slots lower than one of the picks we got in the Malik Rose trade). It's okay to give salary to get a pick, depending on what you're getting. $17 million for a #20 pick is nuts, even if we had gotten Marcus Williams (no way a GM could foresee MW falling that far before the draft, though). $17 million for a lottery pick wouldn't have been so bad, though. Additionally, $27 million, if it nabbed us a shot at a high lottery pick (let's say, top 8) is probably worth it. Are there any really bad teams that take Allan Iverson in said deal? Probably not, but you never know.

Isles point, which is a fair one, is we're paying these guys either way, so why not hang onto them, if for no other reason, than to have them if a deal you can't pass up comes along.

Isiah wants to get under the cap now, fine, but he wasted three years amassing contracts worse than the ones we had when he got here, and some of those contracts run a good amount of time. Nothing wrong with keeping your options open. Instead, for example, Isiah wastes something like $40 million (luxury tax included) of Dolan's money on Mo Taylor, and doesn't even use that "asset".

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Solace:

Isles point, which is a fair one, is we're paying these guys either way, so why not hang onto them, if for no other reason, than to have them if a deal you can't pass up comes along.

Isiah wants to get under the cap now, fine, but he wasted three years amassing contracts worse than the ones we had when he got here, and some of those contracts run a good amount of time. Nothing wrong with keeping your options open. Instead, for example, Isiah wastes something like $40 million (luxury tax included) of Dolan's money on Mo Taylor, and doesn't even use that "asset".

sorry, but for islesfan of all people to suggest that he'd trust Isiah to make good use of that cap space in a trade when all he's ever done is bash Isiah for every move he's made is ridiculous... if you had said the same thing i wouldn't have even challenged it... again, it's not the concept that's being argued, but the person who's arguing it... you can't say that Isiah's clueless & incapable of making a smart trade using tradeable assets in 1 breath, & then go on to say Isiah's stupid for not having held onto those tradeable assets because of the potential future trades he could have used them for... you can't have it both ways.

I think Isiah is too incompetent to make a good trade with expiring contracts. I agree he can't be trusted with them. So, he avoided his own incompetence by waiving the players outright? If that's the logic behind it, Isiah needs to step down... period.

Bottom line is, the team spent a hell of a lot acquiring these "assets" and now we threw them away for free. Under any other GM, he'd have been fired for that.

Posted by TMS:

the decision to buy out those players was Dolan's ...

I think you're speculating. We don't know that for sure, except that Isiah, to my knowledge, has never given any indication that the decisions weren't his. To give Isiah a pass on this, sorry, not gonna happen. Even if it were Dolan's decision, it's only because of Isiah's incompetence that Dolan took away the purse strings.

Posted by TMS:

How is it speculation when the owner went on the air w/Isiah himself & said that he's expecting Isiah to show "significant improvement" this year with what he has?

It's speculation that Dolan forced Isiah to waive those players.

& who's giving Isiah a pass here? the point is that if you're going to call Isiah incompetent & say that you don't trust him to make good use of expiring contracts, then you shouldn't be complaining that the Knicks bought out those contracts to begin with... i'll say it again, you can't have it both ways... either you can be annoyed that the Knicks bought out those contracts because you thought they could have been put to better use & trust that the management would have made the right move on what players to pursue, or you can be happy that the organization is showing that they've finally changed their perspective on taking on longterm salary & instead is now committing itself to developing the young talent & trying to regain some sanity in the cap situation going forward.

personally, i'm happy the contracts were bought out, because it shows that Dolan has finally woken up & smelled the coffee... alot of posters on this board, including yourself, have been pining for this organization to commit itself to a doing just that over the years.

The problem is we already bridged the gap by adding salary the last three years. Dumping the contracts served no purpose EXCEPT protecting Isiah against himself.

I have a SERIOUS problem with that being the reason, because if you're convinced the GM is so incompetent, he shouldn't be GM.

As for going in one direction, but leaving your options open... that's called not putting all your eggs in one basket. It requires having both a plan and a backup plan. In the last six years, this organization has not shown any semblance of a plan, so I guess it's completely out of the question to have two plans and to give yourself options and manueverability.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Solace:

Isles point, which is a fair one, is we're paying these guys either way, so why not hang onto them, if for no other reason, than to have them if a deal you can't pass up comes along.

Isiah wants to get under the cap now, fine, but he wasted three years amassing contracts worse than the ones we had when he got here, and some of those contracts run a good amount of time. Nothing wrong with keeping your options open. Instead, for example, Isiah wastes something like $40 million (luxury tax included) of Dolan's money on Mo Taylor, and doesn't even use that "asset".

sorry, but for islesfan of all people to suggest that he'd trust Isiah to make good use of that cap space in a trade when all he's ever done is bash Isiah for every move he's made is ridiculous... if you had said the same thing i wouldn't have even challenged it... again, it's not the concept that's being argued, but the person who's arguing it... you can't say that Isiah's clueless & incapable of making a smart trade using tradeable assets in 1 breath, & then go on to say Isiah's stupid for not having held onto those tradeable assets because of the potential future trades he could have used them for... you can't have it both ways.

That's asinine. If one person says something that you believe to be valid, you won't challenge it but if another person says the same thing then you're going to question the validity? If a point is valid then it's valid no matter who says it.

Posted by TMS:

so basically Isiah is a moron for taking on all the longterm contracts over the years

On that fact alone, he's a moron because of how he got them and the circumstances surrounding the team at the time he got those players. $34 MM for a draft pick and an "asset" we dropped, a 2nd round pick and $40 MM for an "asset" we dropped, $45 MM for the right to take on another $45 MM in Steve Francis. The list goes on and on. It's okay to take on a long term contract if it has a plan and it's a good player who helps the team. Stephon Marbury's $$$ are justified, if you thought he was a franchise player. Crawford? No. Jerome James? No. Mo T? No. Jalen? No. Francis? No.

but he's also moron for getting rid of the trade assets that would have enabled him to take on even more...

Well we already *had* the assets. The idea would be to go back in time and prevent him from taking those contracts in the first place. Since that's not an option, though, why not hold onto them, with the same intention of dropping the player eventually, but just in case a star player comes along who might be available. So far this season, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis and Pau Gasol are all potentially available. You can at least make an argument for one or two of those guys being great acquisitions for the Knicks, but technically we no longer have the assets since we waived those contracts. Do I trust Isiah to use the assets wisely? No, I don't trust him, but a minimally competent GM with Dolan's wallet would be licking his chops right about now.

just curious (& i'm not trying to be a smart azz either), but were you this annoyed at Isiah's buying out of Jalen & Mo T's contracts early this season when it went down? I don't remember many posters complaining that much about it at the time.

I was annoyed during the offseason, because waiving the players was pointless. Happy we wouldn't make another Steve Francis trade, but annoyed that this move was purely made for Isiah protecting Isiah from Isiah. With a little restraint, we may have been able to turn those contracts into something good. I'm more annoyed now, since we see the kind of players who are available, better players than have been available the past few years in trades (Vince Carter excluded), and so we're basically missing out because we threw away our assets for no reason.

That's poor GMing.