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Silverfuel
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12/10/2006  6:26 PM
and just so you know newyorknewyork, I never said his skill haws tremendously improved. All I am saying is he can take and more shots because he has more skill than last season to not pickup stupid early fouls. Most of his fouls this season are good fouls.
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BasketballJones
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12/10/2006  6:26 PM

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Silverfuel
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12/10/2006  6:27 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by islesfan:

If his skill is so much improved them why is his shooting percentage worse than last year? Shouldn't it be much better?
isles, his FG% is practically the same! It was .563 last season and its .559 this season. Thats 0.004 off! Thats not even half a percent! With taking/making more shots, more mins and more points his FG% is basically where it was. Every single category there is an improvement and the FG% is just very slightly off and I mean, not even 1/2 a percent. Its basically the same, 56%.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-10-2006 6:20 PM]

But if he's so much better shouldn't his FG% be better?
Never said he was "so much better" that he will improve in every single category. His points and minutes played are up and his FG% is the same. That means he has improved and just saying he is taking more shots is oversimplifying this. I wonder if anyone agrees with me! I'm going to start a poll about this.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
newyorknewyork
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12/10/2006  6:29 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

and just so you know newyorknewyork, I never said his skill haws tremendously improved. All I am saying is he can take and more shots because he has more skill than last season to not pickup stupid early fouls. Most of his fouls this season are good fouls.

I wasn't talking about your post. I was talking about Islesfan post about Curry's shooting %.
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Anji
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12/10/2006  6:31 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Ofcourse he gets more shots than last season. he is playing more and playing better. Shouldnt he get more shots in 32 mpg than 26mpg since he is playing well? You said Isiah doesnt care about wins and losses only Currys numbers. I say thats ridiculous. If that was the case Curry would shoot more and Jcraw/Qrich less. Jcraw is at14. curry at 12 and Qrich at 11 shots per game. Seemds pretty well distributed to me. Actually his shots per minute are just about identical to his career going back to his chicago days. You seem to be reaching. The question is are you reaching to bash Isiah? Or Curry? or both?
THat should be a Poll question..................I would vote both.

Another Poll question would be,"Are pictures that mess up the page of a thread the most annoying thing a person can do"...... I would vote yes as well.

[Edited by - anji on 12-10-2006 6:34 PM]
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Silverfuel
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12/10/2006  6:32 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by Silverfuel:

and just so you know newyorknewyork, I never said his skill haws tremendously improved. All I am saying is he can take and more shots because he has more skill than last season to not pickup stupid early fouls. Most of his fouls this season are good fouls.
I wasn't talking about your post. I was talking about Islesfan post about Curry's shooting %.
I know I know, I was just giving you some more ammo. I mean, I feel like isles is putting words in my mouth quoting my post and claiming I said he has so much more improved.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Swishfm3
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12/10/2006  7:00 PM
Thats a good point...But the as a whole...the team has improved
PresIke
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12/10/2006  7:11 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by MisterClutch:

what if improving currys numbers leads to improving our wins total. After all Curry is our biggest threat on Offense.

The Knicks record is 4-5 during Curry's 20 pt streak.


So your argument is that Curry's current scoring has no effect on the Knicks winning games? Yet the Knicks record prior to his streak was 4-9. While in the other two games where Curry scored 20+ the Knicks lost, yet the team had clearly not been running the offense as well as they have as of late. over the past 5 games (all during the streak) the Knicks are ranked as the 5th best scoring team in the NBA (up from 20th), the 7th best passing team (up from 22nd) and the 4th best FG% (up from 20th).

So all this is about is just getting Curry more shots? I think one could theorize from these numbers that there is a direct correlation to Curry's consistent strong play and it having a residual effect on the team's improved offensive performance. Isiah probably has told the team to get more shots for Eddy, but to say that it is just to "showcase" him to make Isiah look good is just ridiculous when the Knicks have a better record over this period, and have generally looked better as a team.

And just "getting" shots is not enough of an argument to say that one will actually convert on them and take good ones that will be converted. Curry's offensive positioning has also been obviously improved, where as he used to set up farther from the basket, and lower his shoulder -- collecting offensive fouls. His foul trouble has clearly declined, and the team has done a better job of getting him the ball in a spot where he can be effective. That's a team improvement, not just Eddy.

So if he is now doing so well, then that means that Curry was a talent that was being underutilized. In that case, you are giving Isiah credit for recognizing Eddy's talent now, since you suggest that it was all about was getting Eddy more shots, and making the offensive adjustment as a coach. If that is the case, how is Isiah so evil and dumb then in this regard? Our record is improved and the team generally looks better due to his output, as most observers without a vandetta against Isiah have noted.



[Edited by - PresIke on 12-10-2006 7:11 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 12-10-2006 7:12 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 12-10-2006 7:17 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
crzymdups
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12/10/2006  7:30 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by islesfan:

If his skill is so much improved them why is his shooting percentage worse than last year? Shouldn't it be much better?
isles, his FG% is practically the same! It was .563 last season and its .559 this season. Thats 0.004 off! Thats not even half a percent! With taking/making more shots, more mins and more points his FG% is basically where it was. Every single category there is an improvement and the FG% is just very slightly off and I mean, not even 1/2 a percent. Its basically the same, 56%.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-10-2006 6:20 PM]

But if he's so much better shouldn't his FG% be better?

Michael Jordan's field goal percentage went down significantly when he started winning championships. By your logic, Jordan got worse in his championship years?

I mean, I'm shocked if you're saying this with a straight face.

Your argument is Isiah is sacrificing wins to feature Curry and make himself look good, yet they've won a higher percentage of their games during Curry's streak. you have no argument.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 10-12-2006 7:33 PM]
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PresIke
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12/10/2006  7:35 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by islesfan:

If his skill is so much improved them why is his shooting percentage worse than last year? Shouldn't it be much better?
isles, his FG% is practically the same! It was .563 last season and its .559 this season. Thats 0.004 off! Thats not even half a percent! With taking/making more shots, more mins and more points his FG% is basically where it was. Every single category there is an improvement and the FG% is just very slightly off and I mean, not even 1/2 a percent. Its basically the same, 56%.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-10-2006 6:20 PM]

But if he's so much better shouldn't his FG% be better?

Michael Jordan's field goal percentage went down significantly when he started winning championships. By your logic, Jordan got worse in his championship years?

This suggests that there are also other factors not being taken into account with regards to isles' analysis, such as the effect Curry's scoring has on the opportunities of his teamates, and in that case the numbers point to an increase in offensive output for the team overall (at least over the past 5 games), as I indicated in my previous response. Curry is not the only guy on the floor and his play affects others, since defenses focus so much attention on stopping him -- due to his already high FG% and increased offensive production.

[Edited by - PresIke on 12-10-2006 7:36 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
crzymdups
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12/10/2006  8:11 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by islesfan:

If his skill is so much improved them why is his shooting percentage worse than last year? Shouldn't it be much better?
isles, his FG% is practically the same! It was .563 last season and its .559 this season. Thats 0.004 off! Thats not even half a percent! With taking/making more shots, more mins and more points his FG% is basically where it was. Every single category there is an improvement and the FG% is just very slightly off and I mean, not even 1/2 a percent. Its basically the same, 56%.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-10-2006 6:20 PM]

But if he's so much better shouldn't his FG% be better?

Michael Jordan's field goal percentage went down significantly when he started winning championships. By your logic, Jordan got worse in his championship years?

This suggests that there are also other factors not being taken into account with regards to isles' analysis, such as the effect Curry's scoring has on the opportunities of his teamates, and in that case the numbers point to an increase in offensive output for the team overall (at least over the past 5 games), as I indicated in my previous response. Curry is not the only guy on the floor and his play affects others, since defenses focus so much attention on stopping him -- due to his already high FG% and increased offensive production.

[Edited by - PresIke on 12-10-2006 7:36 PM]

Centers command that a lot - there's a reason Duncan and Shaq have combined for 7 of the last 8 titles. Centers can command the entire flow of a game, more than a point guard in most cases. They can wreck havoc on a defense. This is why I thought the Curry trade was worth it at the time and why I still think it was worth it. I remember when we used to face Shaq after Ewing was gone - games just spiraled out of control, there was no way whatsoever to stop him. Curry obviously has a long way to go to get to that class, and I'm sure certain parties will start threads saying it was all a mirage the next time Eddy has a bad game, but he is getting closer and anyone who can't see the genuine improvement is covering their eyes.
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playa2
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12/10/2006  9:18 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Don't you realize what Isiah is doing here?

He's not worrying about wins and losses as much as he is improving Curry's numbers. That's what he's going to go to Dolan with when it's time to judge "significant improvement".

That doesn't necessarily mean that the team will have improved. Everybody else's game is being sacrificed at the Curry altar. Anybody who doesn't immediately mesh with helping Curry get his is going to go by the wayside. It's already started with Frye.

But who cares, Isiah will worry about that after he gets his 3 year extension from Dolan. The only thing that matters now is getting Curry's numbers up, no matter that it's just a byproduct of Isiah playing him more minutes and forcing the ball to him so he gets more shots but isn't shooting better than last year.

Isles you are all over it, the politics of MSG is wayy out of control.

Only those that have studied the lifestyle of snakes can see the big picture here.



[Edited by - playa2 on 12-10-2006 14:20]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
islesfan
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12/10/2006  9:21 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by islesfan:

If his skill is so much improved them why is his shooting percentage worse than last year? Shouldn't it be much better?
isles, his FG% is practically the same! It was .563 last season and its .559 this season. Thats 0.004 off! Thats not even half a percent! With taking/making more shots, more mins and more points his FG% is basically where it was. Every single category there is an improvement and the FG% is just very slightly off and I mean, not even 1/2 a percent. Its basically the same, 56%.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-10-2006 6:20 PM]

But if he's so much better shouldn't his FG% be better?

Michael Jordan's field goal percentage went down significantly when he started winning championships. By your logic, Jordan got worse in his championship years?

I mean, I'm shocked if you're saying this with a straight face.

Your argument is Isiah is sacrificing wins to feature Curry and make himself look good, yet they've won a higher percentage of their games during Curry's streak. you have no argument.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 10-12-2006 7:33 PM]

Did Jordan improve his game in other ways? Yes.

Curry's game is basically the same it's always been. The only difference between this year and last is that his minutes have increased so his numbers have adjusted accordingly.
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nyk4ever
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12/10/2006  9:24 PM
Posted by islesfan:



Did Jordan improve his game in other ways? Yes.

Curry's game is basically the same it's always been. The only difference between this year and last is that his minutes have increased so his numbers have adjusted accordingly.

I really do agree with that. Curry improved his conditioning and I do believe he improved his touch around the hoop but his game is really the same as it always has been. I guess the best thing you can say is that Curry has been given more minutes and he's capitalized on him.
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Nalod
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12/11/2006  12:08 AM
it has been said many times that if he could stay out longer his stats would improve.

The rebounding increasing is also very important.

isles, we buried Marbury, isn't that enough?
crzymdups
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12/11/2006  1:07 AM
Posted by islesfan:


Did Jordan improve his game in other ways? Yes.

Curry's game is basically the same it's always been. The only difference between this year and last is that his minutes have increased so his numbers have adjusted accordingly.

where's your proof?
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bobs3304
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12/11/2006  1:53 AM
I hear you loud and clear, but it really only makes sense to "force feed" a guy that shoots 56% from the field and who can score.

I mean put 2 and 2 together, and.......

I think you get my drift.


Otherwise I'd say ya, his stats are basically just adjusting to more PT, but how do we know that isn't true with most players. Maybe Curry will ALWAYS be a high energy scorer and low energy defender, but if he's playing 35 minutes a game and scoring 20+ points, 8+ rebounds, and a block and an assist a game, that's pretty damm good.

You can't change who you are, but you can be the best verions of yourself possible. If Zeke helps polish Curry's overall game, he's easily an All-Star.

Whether that makes him our franchise big man....or most tradeable asset, it's all good.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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12/11/2006  2:00 AM
Even if Curry's performances lately are a fluke, tieing Houston's 8 year 20+ record is still pretty impressive.

And if he extends it...........I'm impressed.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nixluva
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12/11/2006  2:45 AM
I can't believe that there's even a negative take on what Curry has been doing. At first is was just his scoring, but gradually as his confidence has grown it's effecting every aspect of his game. CLEARLY it's more than just playing more minutes. The guy is PLAYING BETTER. PERIOD. The teams fortunes will only improve if he continues to play this way. There is no negative or bad side to any of this. Can we all just finally start to get behind this team and what Isiah is doing? Would it kill some of you to admit that Isiah did know what he was doing? isiah said at the start of the year that he wanted to make Curry an All Star type player and it's starting to look like he might be able to do that. He may not make it this year, but he'll get attention for sure. Let's all just hope and pray that he continues to play this well and stays healthy.
crzymdups
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12/11/2006  1:57 PM
Just so everyone sees it - Curry over the last nine games:

24.9ppg
8.9rpg
61.3%fg
1.0apg
1.0bpg
37.3mpg

this is not just more minutes, this is the best he's ever played in his life, he's 24, he had the summer to workout unlike last year and he finally has a coach who knows how to develop young bigs.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 11-12-2006 1:58 PM]
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